On 2 April 2017 at 16:25, Reindl Harald <h.reindl(a)thelounge.net&gt; wrote: I really don't like when someone during discussion when I'm tryin bring as much facts as I can or tests (or similar things used in civilised discussion), and someone is not able to to respond on similar level is turning conversation (because it is no longer discussion) to "ad personam" reply. If you really think that only link to "the paralel universe" may convince you to a least *one time* execute test which I've posted .. OK, here is you link: ftp://ftp.icm.edu.pl/pub/linux/dist/pld/dists/ra/PLD/SRPMS/SRPMS/ Please have look on timestamps and specs files inside those src.rpm packages. You can find a bit more in subdirectories above this path. Reason why there is no longer this distribution around is because I was young and I've not spotted that few people leaving in different city started thinking about monetising results of our work. After those people took over DNS it was few weeks dirty fight which I'm not proud. In other words I was immature that doing +50% of whole work within about 100 strong people group I've did not secured my IPs and someone been thinking that I was so psychologically depend on what I've been doing for few years in my free time that after this "coup" I'll accept "new command" or will act like nothing happened. It was hard lesson but such thing sometimes happens .. Second distribution in which you can find traces of mine earliest activity is .. installed on your computer. Just try to execute "rpm -qa --changelog | grep kloczek". [mode=joking] I'm not sure where you are now and maybe it will be not possible to establish connectivity to this "parallel universe" ;-) but what is on your computer probably is not out-of-this-world. And no .. I've not just hacked your computer :-P [/mode] About 15 years ago it was much more such traces (something like 30-50 times more) but after in most of the RH packages %changelog tails entries have been cut only few remained. If you are really interested what more I've done only in rpm context .. If you are using mc (if not "dnf install -y mc; mc") after executing this program enter "cd rpms://", press enter, then wait few seconds, or try to press enter on any source or binary package which you have. Yes, I wrote about 80% of rpm mc support. You can check how useful it is by "cd <paralel_universe>" link. After pressing enter on any src.rpm go inside then press F3 on any spec file. If you will have look on those spec with tabbed indentation or using exact order fields in spec file you probably will find that such style is shared still by more or less biggest part the current Fedora specs files. Try to think who published first time some critical mass of spec files +20 years ago that this style still is possible to find in so many spec files. It was in RHCN time where I've published something like +100 (but not more than 300 in total with different versions) src.rpm packages. Just realised that I've never told about all those details together. So far observing how many people are still sharing the same aesthetics used in specs which I've never touched was enough for me .. BTW style of writing spec files. In rpm-4.0.2-102.src.rpm on this <paralel_universe> link you can find how easy was possible to write awk script (adapter.awk) which been used to indenting 100% of all those spec files. I did not wrote this script (I've added only some number of improvements). Using the samy style was necessary to have to control thousands specs files using very limited human resources. IMO such common indentation is even more important today in case of Fedora because between thousands package maintainers still it is only handful of very skilled people or mentors with enough time able to audit other people work on massive scale. On big scale no one is analysing spec files line by line but by trying to find any "broken patterns" around which usually other packagers adding some "strange" lines. This few KB awk script gave us much more that for example rpmlint. I know that how I'm expressing myself may look a bit arrogant, rude or even disrespectful. However strongness of my words comes only from what *I've really done or able to prove* even if someone is thinking that in giving pure bollocks/BS. I'm trying to control this part "me" but it is really hard to change some deeply anchored habits related to how I'm behaving when it is not about to have opinion or guess. If you will give me enough time I would be able to share straight much more of what I've done, or which have been done by some other people which I've only inspired giving them base idea how to do something, or only serving as kind of "mental mirror" during some discussions. So please .. stop telling me that I'm unqualified and uneducated. If someone feels personally touched by what or/and how I wrote something please accept my apology. Next time please post something about what you've just done/tested. Something which I can try to prove/disprove. I hope still we can back to technical dispute. kloczek -- Tomasz Kłoczko | LinkedIn: *http://lnkd.in/FXPWxH <http://lnkd.in/FXPWxH>*