3:22 p.m.
The page
http://fedora.redhat.com/about/leadership.html
will be updated in the next update to the web site.
I want to remind everyone when you see it that it's DRAFT II, not
"FINAL", and ask that discussion happen on this list.
Thanks,
michaelkjohnson
"He that composes himself is wiser than he that composes a book."
Linux Application Development -- Ben Franklin
http://people.redhat.com/johnsonm/lad/
3:29 p.m.
Michael K. Johnson wrote:
The page
http://fedora.redhat.com/about/leadership.html
will be updated in the next update to the web site.
would you mind to place the date of the latest modification
on bottom of all the web pages ?
Now, it's nearly impossible to know when somebody modify a page.
-thanks-
1:54 p.m.
On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 10:29:38PM +0100, Xose Vazquez Perez wrote:
would you mind to place the date of the latest modification
on bottom of all the web pages ?
Now, it's nearly impossible to know when somebody modify a page.
I'll get it started. There are a few pages in sufficient flux that I
might miss adding the $Date$ strings in, but I think that once you see
"This page last modified at:" on the web site, you can be reasonably
sure that pages that don't show that text at the bottom haven't been
recently modified.
There's only one fly in this ointment: EVERY page will initially show
modification because I have to modify the source to every page to put
in $Date$ tags. Such is life, I guess. Heisenberg at work! ;-)
michaelkjohnson
"He that composes himself is wiser than he that composes a book."
Linux Application Development -- Ben Franklin
http://people.redhat.com/johnsonm/lad/
2:02 p.m.
Michael K. Johnson <johnsonm(a)redhat.com>:
On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 10:29:38PM +0100, Xose Vazquez Perez wrote:
> would you mind to place the date of the latest modification
> on bottom of all the web pages ?
>
> Now, it's nearly impossible to know when somebody modify a page.
I'll get it started. There are a few pages in sufficient flux that I
might miss adding the $Date$ strings in, but I think that once you see
"This page last modified at:" on the web site, you can be reasonably
sure that pages that don't show that text at the bottom haven't been
recently modified.
There's a easier way. I use this Javascript fragment in my headers:
<script language="JavaScript" src="/~esr/datestamp.js">
Here's the JavaScript to go with it:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
// JavaScript to generate a compact date representation
//
// format date as dd-mmm-yy
// example: 12-Jan-99
//
function date_ddmmmyy(date)
{
var d = date.getDate();
var m = date.getMonth() + 1;
var y = date.getYear();
// handle different year values
// returned by IE and NS in
// the year 2000.
if(y >= 2000)
{
y -= 2000;
}
if(y >= 100)
{
y -= 100;
}
// could use splitString() here
// but the following method is
// more compatible
var mmm =
( 1==m)?'Jan':( 2==m)?'Feb':(3==m)?'Mar':
( 4==m)?'Apr':( 5==m)?'May':(6==m)?'Jun':
( 7==m)?'Jul':( 8==m)?'Aug':(9==m)?'Sep':
(10==m)?'Oct':(11==m)?'Nov':'Dec';
return "" +
(d<10?"0"+d:d) + " " +
mmm + " " +
(y<10?"0"+y:y);
}
//
// get last modified date of the
// current document.
//
function date_lastmodified()
{
var lmd = document.lastModified;
var s = "Unknown";
var d1;
// check if we have a valid date
// before proceeding
if(0 != (d1=Date.parse(lmd)))
{
s = "" + date_ddmmmyy(new Date(d1));
}
return s;
}
//
// finally display the last modified date
// as DD-MMM-YY
//
document.writeln(
date_lastmodified() );
// End
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
<a href="http://www.catb.org/~esr/">Eric S. Raymond</a>
2:16 p.m.
Once upon a time, Eric S. Raymond <esr(a)thyrsus.com> said:
Michael K. Johnson <johnsonm(a)redhat.com>:
> I'll get it started. There are a few pages in sufficient flux that I
> might miss adding the $Date$ strings in, but I think that once you see
> "This page last modified at:" on the web site, you can be reasonably
> sure that pages that don't show that text at the bottom haven't been
> recently modified.
There's a easier way. I use this Javascript fragment in my headers:
<gag> Javascript! </gag>
If you want something that is automatic (and doesn't restrict the
browsers and configurations of visitors to get useful information), you
can use an Apache server side include:
<!--#config timefmt="%A %B %d, %Y" -->
This file last modified <!--#echo var="LAST_MODIFIED" -->
--
Chris Adams <cmadams(a)hiwaay.net>
Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services
I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.
3:52 p.m.
On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 02:16:24PM -0600, Chris Adams wrote:
If you want something that is automatic (and doesn't restrict
the
browsers and configurations of visitors to get useful information), you
can use an Apache server side include:
Except that it won't work because of the way we generate the site.
Trust me, CVS $Date$ is the only thing that is going to work on
this site...
Fortunately, I realized that I can make the date only show up as
we modify pages. I think. Except someone will forget and eventually
new dates will show up everywhere because of a tagging mistake. :-)
michaelkjohnson
"He that composes himself is wiser than he that composes a book."
Linux Application Development -- Ben Franklin
http://people.redhat.com/johnsonm/lad/
6 p.m.
New subject: web site design [was Re: new leadership draft being posted...]
Michael K. Johnson wrote:
Trust me, CVS $Date$ is the only thing that is going to work on
this site...
I like FreeBSD way:
$FreeBSD: www/en/index.xsl,v 1.84 2003/12/02 20:12:28 trhodes Exp $
Speaking about web site design, in general FreeBSD.org is very well
done. Maybe this is the way to go ;-)
5:37 a.m.
Oh, CVS already, please ignore my previous mail :)
Rui
On Wed, 2003-12-03 at 21:52, Michael K. Johnson wrote:
On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 02:16:24PM -0600, Chris Adams wrote:
> If you want something that is automatic (and doesn't restrict the
> browsers and configurations of visitors to get useful information), you
> can use an Apache server side include:
Except that it won't work because of the way we generate the site.
Trust me, CVS $Date$ is the only thing that is going to work on
this site...
Fortunately, I realized that I can make the date only show up as
we modify pages. I think. Except someone will forget and eventually
new dates will show up everywhere because of a tagging mistake. :-)
michaelkjohnson
"He that composes himself is wiser than he that composes a book."
Linux Application Development -- Ben Franklin
http://people.redhat.com/johnsonm/lad/
--
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list(a)redhat.com
http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
--
+ No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown
+ Whatever you do will be insignificant,
| but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi
+ So let's do it...?
Please AVOID sending me WORD, EXCEL or POWERPOINT attachments.
See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
9:50 a.m.
On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 11:37:41AM +0000, Rui Miguel Seabra wrote:
Oh, CVS already, please ignore my previous mail :)
Oops, I missed this mail (didn't see it when I checked the thread,
I guess mutt was confused) so I failed to ignore it. :-)
michaelkjohnson
"He that composes himself is wiser than he that composes a book."
Linux Application Development -- Ben Franklin
http://people.redhat.com/johnsonm/lad/
12:27 p.m.
Quoting Chris Adams <cmadams(a)hiwaay.net>:
Once upon a time, Eric S. Raymond <esr(a)thyrsus.com> said:
> Michael K. Johnson <johnsonm(a)redhat.com>:
> > I'll get it started. There are a few pages in sufficient flux that I
> > might miss adding the $Date$ strings in, but I think that once you see
> > "This page last modified at:" on the web site, you can be reasonably
> > sure that pages that don't show that text at the bottom haven't been
> > recently modified.
>
> There's a easier way. I use this Javascript fragment in my headers:
<gag> Javascript! </gag>
If you want something that is automatic (and doesn't restrict the
browsers and configurations of visitors to get useful information), you
can use an Apache server side include:
<!--#config timefmt="%A %B %d, %Y" -->
This file last modified <!--#echo var="LAST_MODIFIED" -->
For PHP based sites, here's a really cool way to do it. These bits of code
serve two purposes: they allow you to use PHP to generate pages that can be
browser-cached just like static .html documents. And as an added bonus, they
stick the last-modified time at the end of the page.
I don't know what system you use for your site, but these code fragments are
too wicked cool to just keep to myself.
--- somepage.php ---
<?
$page_FILE = __FILE__;
# set true if you want this page to be cached by the browser. If this page
# (or the headers) do dynamic content, set to false.
$page_static = true;
include 'header.inc';
?>
Page content
...
...
<? include 'footer.inc' ?>
--- header.inc ---
<?
if ($page_static && isset($page_FILE))
{
# tell the browser to treat this page like a static .html file
header("Last-modified: " . date("r", filemtime($page_FILE)))
}
?>
<html><head>..etc.
Header content
...
--- footer.inc ---
<? if (isset($page_FILE)) { ?>
<div id="footer">Last Modified
<?=date("F j, Y, g: i a T", filemtime($page_FILE))?></div>
<? } ?>
</body></html>
-------
12:17 p.m.
On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 12:27:08PM -0600, fedora-devel(a)tlarson.com wrote:
For PHP based sites, here's a really cool way to do it. These
bits of code
serve two purposes: they allow you to use PHP to generate pages that can be
browser-cached just like static .html documents. And as an added bonus, they
stick the last-modified time at the end of the page.
I don't know what system you use for your site, but these code fragments are
too wicked cool to just keep to myself.
We use PHP to *generate* the site but not serve it. Odd, I know.
But thank you for posting these!
michaelkjohnson
"He that composes himself is wiser than he that composes a book."
Linux Application Development -- Ben Franklin
http://people.redhat.com/johnsonm/lad/
3:27 p.m.
That assumes the content management tool is handing back valid dates, the
browser does JS, and the proxy in the middle didnt do something stupid.
In all those cases the browser menu item for info about the page also gives
the right answer anyway.
--
"Have you noticed the way people's intelligence capabilities decline
sharply the minute they start waving guns around?"
-- Dr. Who
3:51 p.m.
On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 03:02:50PM -0500, Eric S. Raymond wrote:
There's a easier way. I use this Javascript fragment in my
headers:
That's orthogonal to what I'm trying to do. And I'd rather not
depend on javascript.
michaelkjohnson
"He that composes himself is wiser than he that composes a book."
Linux Application Development -- Ben Franklin
http://people.redhat.com/johnsonm/lad/
4 p.m.
On Wed, Dec 03, 2003 at 02:54:21PM -0500, Michael K. Johnson wrote:
I'll get it started. There are a few pages in sufficient flux
that I
might miss adding the $Date$ strings in, but I think that once you see
"This page last modified at:" on the web site, you can be reasonably
sure that pages that don't show that text at the bottom haven't been
recently modified.
OK, in the next push of the web site (none currently scheduled), the
main page will show a date-last-modified line in the page footer.
Other pages that are modified will also show date-last-modified. It
is possible that other otherwise-unmodified pages will also show the
date-last-modified lines, depending on which files get tagged to
push live in CVS as people work on the site.
michaelkjohnson
"He that composes himself is wiser than he that composes a book."
Linux Application Development -- Ben Franklin
http://people.redhat.com/johnsonm/lad/
5:37 a.m.
How about having the web page in CVS and using cvs tags?
On Wed, 2003-12-03 at 19:54, Michael K. Johnson wrote:
On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 10:29:38PM +0100, Xose Vazquez Perez wrote:
> would you mind to place the date of the latest modification
> on bottom of all the web pages ?
>
> Now, it's nearly impossible to know when somebody modify a page.
I'll get it started. There are a few pages in sufficient flux that I
might miss adding the $Date$ strings in, but I think that once you see
"This page last modified at:" on the web site, you can be reasonably
sure that pages that don't show that text at the bottom haven't been
recently modified.
There's only one fly in this ointment: EVERY page will initially show
modification because I have to modify the source to every page to put
in $Date$ tags. Such is life, I guess. Heisenberg at work! ;-)
michaelkjohnson
"He that composes himself is wiser than he that composes a book."
Linux Application Development -- Ben Franklin
http://people.redhat.com/johnsonm/lad/
--
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list(a)redhat.com
http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
--
+ No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown
+ Whatever you do will be insignificant,
| but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi
+ So let's do it...?
Please AVOID sending me WORD, EXCEL or POWERPOINT attachments.
See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
9:50 a.m.
On Thu, Dec 04, 2003 at 11:37:11AM +0000, Rui Miguel Seabra wrote:
How about having the web page in CVS and using cvs tags?
That's what we're doing. Note that I said "$Date$".
michaelkjohnson
"He that composes himself is wiser than he that composes a book."
Linux Application Development -- Ben Franklin
http://people.redhat.com/johnsonm/lad/
5:30 p.m.
The page
http://fedora.redhat.com/about/leadership.html
will be updated in the next update to the web site.
I want to remind everyone when you see it that it's DRAFT II, not
"FINAL", and ask that discussion happen on this list.
I will admit, I don't have full background on all of the Fedora policies,
I've only been on this list for a week.
What makes me curious is the intense RedHat involvement from the top. I
understand that this project is funded by RedHat, but it's going to raise
some complaints from the community. I deal with Debian developers on a
daily basis and their biggest complaint seems to be the heavy RedHat
involvement. I don't think this is all bad (I get the impression RedHat
has a clue), but it may be wise to bring a few non RedHat people onto the
Steering Commitee. This would help mitigate any complaints from some of
the more "left" community members we'll say :)
--
JB
5:56 p.m.
What makes me curious is the intense RedHat involvement from the top.
I
understand that this project is funded by RedHat, but it's going to raise
some complaints from the community. I deal with Debian developers on a
daily basis and their biggest complaint seems to be the heavy RedHat
involvement. I don't think this is all bad (I get the impression RedHat
has a clue), but it may be wise to bring a few non RedHat people onto the
Steering Commitee. This would help mitigate any complaints from some of
the more "left" community members we'll say :)
It's worth pointing out that at the moment, it's difficult to put anyone
else there. As has been said a few times before, many of the procedures that
goes into making Fedora are still very much, from both a technical and
political standpoint, RedHat proprietary. And are the same, or are extremely
similar, to the building that gets done for RHEL. For what it's worth,
Fedora, as a project of it's own, has only been around since September. And
at the time it happened, very much smelled of a decision that had happened
3-4 days before it was announced. The political side was there, but the
technical side is going to need quite a bit of time to de-integrate itself
from RHEL.
I'm not saying that there shouldn't be some non-RedHat people on the
Steering Committee, but at the moment, I don't think there are many, if any,
non-RedHat people who can step into that role. Too much of the finer detail
is still being worked out.
And not to stir the fires of inter-distro flame wars, but I suspect that
how the core Debian developers feel about how Fedora is being run is fairly
low on the "to be worried about" list of most of the people on this list.
Thanks,
Adam Debus
Network Engineer, ReachONE Internet
adam(a)reachone.com
* Opinions expressed in this e-mail are not necessarially the opinions of my
company.
6:51 a.m.
On Mon, Dec 01, 2003 at 04:22:41PM -0500, Michael K. Johnson wrote:
The page
http://fedora.redhat.com/about/leadership.html
will be updated in the next update to the web site.
I want to remind everyone when you see it that it's DRAFT II, not
"FINAL", and ask that discussion happen on this list.
One inconsistency I noted is that the Changes section mentions a:
"Infrastructure Team"
Which isn't detailed in the rest of the document.
Paul
12:40 p.m.
On Tue, 2003-12-02 at 07:51, Paul Nasrat wrote:
One inconsistency I noted is that the Changes section mentions a:
"Infrastructure Team"
Which isn't detailed in the rest of the document.
The Infrastructure Team is indeed explained, in the "Technical
Committee" section.
"The Merge Team has the 'simple' goal to make the merge between the old
Fedora Linux project and the new Fedora Project happen. This includes
policy merges and infrastructure management. This team will be reduced
and reconstituted as the Infrastructure Team once the merge has been
completed. The Merge Team and later the Infrastructure Team will have
participants from inside and outside of Red Hat."
--Jeremy
--
/---------------------------------------------------------------------\
| Jeremy Portzer jeremyp(a)pobox.com trilug.org/~jeremy |
| GPG Fingerprint: 712D 77C7 AB2D 2130 989F E135 6F9F F7BC CC1A 7B92 |
\---------------------------------------------------------------------/
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19 comments
11 participants
participants (11)
-
Adam Debus -
Alan Cox -
Chris Adams -
Eric S. Raymond -
Jeremy Portzer -
Josh Bressers -
Michael K. Johnson -
Paul Nasrat -
Rui Miguel Silva Seabra -
Tyler Larson -
Xose Vazquez Perez