How about some reference links to CCRMA on the SIG wiki, particularly the software-related ones? The SIG is called AudioCreation, but is it going to concentrate specifically on CCRMA for its lifecycle? I understand there are other audio-related Linux packaging attempts like AGNULA <http://www.agnula.org/> or any of the attempts at this page: http://linux-sound.org/distro.html On Mon, 2007-09-17 at 21:33 +0200, Hans de Goede wrote:

On Mon, 2007-09-17 at 21:50 +0200, Hans de Goede wrote: Yes, I read the page and the particular line in the page "concentrating on getting CCRMA packages integrated" (in fact, the line you qutoed is on your announcement, as well) is what has me confused. That's why I'm trying to clarify. Is the SIG specifically about CCRMA only or is it "AudioCreation" in general? And that's the answer to my question. Now for the reason that I asked: If it was going to be CCRMA-specific (and really there's nothing wrong with that IMO), then perhaps a change of SIG title would best reflect it. If it's going to be general like you just stated, then I was going to suggest putting links to other endeavors, if not now then maybe later. That's merely a suggestion that no one is obliged to do. But I suggest it so that if there's any way the good work on these various projects can be combined in one solution, then it would be best to look at them all now. If people are going to take the time to help getting CCRMA integrated into Fedora, they're not going to get thrown off or confused just by seeing what else is out there. Best of luck to the SIG. I'd like to see this succeed and am offering my help in packaging other CCRMA software. I'll assume that coordinating the efforts will be done on the fedora-music-list. -- Richi Plana

Richi Plana wrote: Very glad to hear you want to help out! Coordination of packaging efforts will mainly be done through the wiki, through the packages needing review list. If it isn't on the list and it isn't in Fedora yet, it is still looking for a packager. Coordination of other issues will be done through the list. Regards, Hans

On Mon, 2007-09-17 at 15:32 -0700, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: Could someone update the wiki with a list of outstanding packages that need attention, then? I google'd for Planet CCRMA's site (not on the wiki) and found the current repo. I found the compiled binaries but the SRPMS subdirectory is empty. What are the packages that need to be packaged for Fedora? And is packaging going to start from scratch or are we picking up where Planet CCRMA left off? I've found the CCRMA site http://ccrma.stanford.edu/ and the Planet CCRMA site (http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/software/). How exactly are the two related? I understand that CCRMA has a couple of software projects (some old, some active). Is PlanetCCRMA currently in-sync with the projects at CCRMA? I guess what I'm trying to ask (and I can't find the right words to express it) is what's the intersection of the two entities in terms of software and what is the <term-for-the-opposite-of-intersection>? -- Richi Plana

On Mon, 2007-09-17 at 17:59 -0600, Richi Plana wrote: Sorry, the source packages are common to all versions and architectures currently supported. They all can be found here in the link posted by Hans. Maybe I should write a script to cross link them but I'd rather be doing other things.... Please don't start from scratch... I'm sure all packages can be improved but I have spent a lot of time (see below) in them and they do work. Of course Planet CCRMA does not have _everything_ so there's bound to be music, midi and audio packages that it does not have and would be interesting to add to Fedora anyway. CCRMA, the Center for Computer Research in Music and Acoustics is were I work, it is part of the Music Department at Stanford but it is quite interdisciplinary (there are students from Music, EE, Computer Science, Psychology, etc, etc). We have been using linux as our main computing platform for quite a while (first installs around the end of '96 - before that we were using NeXTs and before _that_ - before my time here - a mainframe and custom built hardware synthesizer and before __that__ computer music hackers were "allowed" to use the computer resources of the AI lab at Stanford at night only). We also have OSX machines as well (no Windows so far). I maintain the computer and networking infrastructure here, including software (and I also teach and I am a composer and researcher - when I find time for that :-). At the beginning of the Linux era, as we used more and more Linux machines (dual booting with NextStep!) I started packaging software we were using for teaching, so that installs would be easier (we currently have around 50 Linux machines online). And added kernels with the low latency patches. And added ALSA drivers and the infrastructure they needed when they were just starting. After a while some CCRMAlites started asking about the packages and I pointed to the directory where they lived. Then they asked how to install them. Eventually I wrote a short web page about them. I then made the mistake of announcing the informal project in the cmdist mailing list :-) That was back in 2001 and I think it was based on RedHat 7.2 at the time. The project was called "Planet CCRMA"[*]. After that it went downhill (figuratively speaking :-) as it became very popular and transformed into a black hole for any ammount of available time I had. As the community of users grew worldwide I started getting requests for packages that I would probably not have installed at CCRMA. So the opening of the project to the world had the nice side effect of broadening the scope of software that I installed at CCRMA. Very good overall. Hope this all makes sense and answers your question... CCRMA is the institution for/on/with which I created the project, Planet CCRMA is the project. Without the continued support of CCRMA, Planet CCRMA would not exist. -- Fernando [*] the name Planet CCRMA actually predates the repository, it was used by a bunch of web pages we maintained with Juan Reyes (a Visiting Scholar and Composer who coined the name) explaining how to use the linux based resources we had.

On Wed, 2007-09-19 at 14:04 -0600, Richi Plana wrote: Hopefully not. As packages transition to Fedora I will drop them from Planet CCRMA (that has already happened with some packages I originally had in Planet CCRMA like, for example, rosegarden4 or lilypond). Not immediately maybe, but surely when they are evr greater in Fedora or when transitioning Planet CCRMA to a n+1 version of Fedora. [MUNCH] Most of them, I think. I don't keep a count. Some older stuff got dropped but most is still around. Some packages don't see a big rate of change but that does not mean they are not useful (they are actually "stable" :-). Pretty much everything we use is packaged. That's the point :-) Remember, Planet CCRMA is a side effect of me trying to maintain a usable sound environment at CCRMA. There are some exceptions, things like matlab, but there are not many. No package _requires_ a low latency kernel. You can run everything on top of the stock Fedora kernel if you want. The difference is that you will not be able to reliably run Jack (the audio server most apps use) at a low latency - by low I mean 5 or less milliseconds. That is needed when you are using the computer as a performance instrument. And the likelihood of an xrun happening (when the kernel takes too long in doing something and the soundcard is starved of samples - and you get an audible dropout) even at higher latencies goes up. And it all depends also on what hardware you use and how you set it up. That is happening but very slowly, Ingo has been slowly moving basic infrastructure to the mainline kernel with the result that the realtime preemption patch is smaller now (I think). But there is a LOT to be done before the patch goes into the mainline kernel. And a LOT more before the more aggresive (and useful) preemption options are enabled in a stock Fedora build. I can hope....... For now I don't see a low latency kernel happening in Fedora. Apps first... I don't quite follow you... I can make a list, of course. I suggested already all the ladspa plugin collections I host and that's what Hans already submitted, those have immediate impact in all apps that use ladpsa plugins. I'll post more suggestions tomorrow (time to go home)... -- Fernando

Nice! i'm interested in taking part of this effort. I have already submitted jack-rack for inclusing in https://bugzilla.redhat.com/285331, that was already a duplicate (thought not updated for a long time)... Not have time to formally contact Fernando for co-ordination I can act as a reviewer also (more from the second part on this week...) Nicolas (kwizart)

On Mon, 2007-09-17 at 21:53 +0200, KH KH wrote: Thanks! The more there are to help the better! Good news... I have a couple of packages that I have to reactivate to put in the queue as well (freqtweak & sooperlooper). -- Fernando