1:39 p.m.
Hi,
since it comes up every now and then, I'd like to get the differences
clarified, especially since there are ideas to get them united, which
if the contents and target groups are too different would be wrong.
The way I see it it is like the following:
o fedora-devel
- concentrates on rawhide and its way to a release
- has in-house upstream development discussion
- more in-depth Linux mechanics
- manages release cycle
o fedora-maintainers
- concentrates on the packaging community as a whole
- More issues about packaging than on upstream development, if any
- cares more about current and past releases
There is some (IMHO) healthy overlap, but I do think that they differ
enough to keep them separated to have each group enjoy a better SNR
level.
--
Axel.Thimm at ATrpms.net
1:45 p.m.
On Tuesday 20 March 2007 14:39:13 Axel Thimm wrote:
The way I see it it is like the following:
o fedora-devel
- concentrates on rawhide and its way to a release
- has in-house upstream development discussion
- more in-depth Linux mechanics
- manages release cycle
o fedora-maintainers
- concentrates on the packaging community as a whole
- More issues about packaging than on upstream development, if any
- cares more about current and past releases
Actually I do all the freeze and collection announcements to
fedora-maintainers. They're the people that need to know, and it's largely
just noise for fedora-devel. To me, fedora-maintainers are the people doing
the work, and a communication place for that. fedora-devel is a combo of
people doing work and a larger community consuming the work.
--
Jesse Keating
Release Engineer: Fedora
--
Fedora-maintainers mailing list
Fedora-maintainers(a)redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-maintainers
3:33 p.m.
On Tue, 2007-03-20 at 14:45 -0400, Jesse Keating wrote:
On Tuesday 20 March 2007 14:39:13 Axel Thimm wrote:
> The way I see it it is like the following:
>
> o fedora-devel
> - concentrates on rawhide and its way to a release
> - has in-house upstream development discussion
> - more in-depth Linux mechanics
> - manages release cycle
>
> o fedora-maintainers
> - concentrates on the packaging community as a whole
> - More issues about packaging than on upstream development, if any
> - cares more about current and past releases
Actually I do all the freeze and collection announcements to
fedora-maintainers. They're the people that need to know, and it's largely
just noise for fedora-devel.
I may not be typical as I don't maintain any packages, but I do upstream
work that often specifically targets Fedora releases. So seeing freeze
announcements and similar on fedora-devel would be helpful. Not a big
deal as I usually hear this from package maintainers indirectly, but
more direct information would sometimes help.
Karl
3:35 a.m.
On Tue, 2007-03-20 at 14:45 -0400, Jesse Keating wrote:
On Tuesday 20 March 2007 14:39:13 Axel Thimm wrote:
> The way I see it it is like the following:
>
> o fedora-devel
> - concentrates on rawhide and its way to a release
> - has in-house upstream development discussion
> - more in-depth Linux mechanics
> - manages release cycle
>
> o fedora-maintainers
> - concentrates on the packaging community as a whole
> - More issues about packaging than on upstream development, if any
> - cares more about current and past releases
Actually I do all the freeze and collection announcements to
fedora-maintainers. They're the people that need to know, and it's largely
just noise for fedora-devel. To me, fedora-maintainers are the people doing
the work, and a communication place for that. fedora-devel is a combo of
people doing work and a larger community consuming the work.
It seems odd to create a boundary (i.e. fedora-maintainers is a closed
list) between the people currently doing the work and people which might
potentially do some work. You want to make it easier for people to
contribute, not harder.
Also, it's a pretty artificial distinction. Not currently owning a
package does not mean one is not contributing to fedora e.g. I don't
currently own any packages so I was silently dropped from
fedora-maintainers, but I do contribute in various ways to some
packages. Looking at the archives, I'm quite surprised at the level of
discussion on fedora-maintainers I'm missing out on.
Cheers,
Mark.
4:23 a.m.
Mark McLoughlin wrote:
It seems odd to create a boundary (i.e. fedora-maintainers is a
closed
list) between the people currently doing the work and people which might
potentially do some work. You want to make it easier for people to
contribute, not harder.
Yes it must be very annoying to have subhuman monkeys on the list, when
everyone knows anything good can only come from $OUR_GROUP. And of
course once you have an $OUR_GROUP, boundaries are what you like,
because without them, horrors of horrors, people might not be able to
tell if you are a subhuman monkey or not. Whereas now it's easy to tell
by the unif- I mean which toilets - er... fedora-maintainers membership.
-And
1:48 p.m.
On Tue, Mar 20, 2007 at 07:39:13PM +0100, Axel Thimm wrote:
since it comes up every now and then, I'd like to get the
differences
clarified, especially since there are ideas to get them united, which
if the contents and target groups are too different would be wrong.
[...]
o fedora-devel
- concentrates on rawhide and its way to a release
- has in-house upstream development discussion
- more in-depth Linux mechanics
- manages release cycle
o fedora-maintainers
- concentrates on the packaging community as a whole
- More issues about packaging than on upstream development, if any
- cares more about current and past releases
I'd kind of like it like this: extended discussion goes on fedora-devel. If
you get behind and have to delete it all to catch up, you'll be okay. Things
on fedora-maintainers should at least have the subjects skimmed through.
--
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list(a)redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
--
Matthew Miller mattdm(a)mattdm.org <http://mattdm.org/>
Boston University Linux ------> <http://linux.bu.edu/>
1:55 p.m.
Axel Thimm schrieb:
The way I see it it is like the following:
[...]
The way it was meant was the following afaics and iirc:
* fedora-maintainers -- important discussions between maintainers where
we exclude the world (remember: it's a closed list!), no endless
flamewars, not that much traffic, so people can easily follow it
* fedora-devel -- all the other devel stuff
I'd say we failed with what fedora-maintainers was meant for. We have
quite some flamewars on fedora-maintainers, we discussed stuff here that
we should have discussed in the open on fedora-devel-list, where
non-contributors can participate, it's high traffic and we scared people
away with it.
CU
thl
1:59 p.m.
Thorsten Leemhuis wrote:
I'd say we failed with what fedora-maintainers was meant for. We have
quite some flamewars on fedora-maintainers, we discussed stuff here that
we should have discussed in the open on fedora-devel-list, where
non-contributors can participate, it's high traffic and we scared people
away with it.
Perhaps *both* lists are failures in different ways?
Warren Togami
wtogami(a)redhat.com
1:23 a.m.
On 20.03.2007 19:59, Warren Togami wrote:
Thorsten Leemhuis wrote:
> I'd say we failed with what fedora-maintainers was meant for. We have
> quite some flamewars on fedora-maintainers, we discussed stuff here that
> we should have discussed in the open on fedora-devel-list, where
> non-contributors can participate, it's high traffic and we scared people
> away with it.
Perhaps *both* lists are failures in different ways?
Agreed, that why I want to merge fedora-maintainers and fedora-devel,
but want to set up another mailing list that really gets used to send
important informations to maintainers (no discussions there!) that don't
want to care about the details (or can read the merged devel list after
they got a heads up from this new low-traffic mailing list).
CU
thl
8:57 p.m.
Axel Thimm wrote:
o fedora-devel
- concentrates on rawhide and its way to a release
- has in-house upstream development discussion
- more in-depth Linux mechanics
- manages release cycle
o fedora-maintainers
- concentrates on the packaging community as a whole
- More issues about packaging than on upstream development, if any
- cares more about current and past releases
No, that's fedora-packaging AIUI. Fedora-maintainers is simply a list
for issuing information for all maintainers. If there's new policy that
affects maintainers, it gets sent to -maintainers. If there's a rebuild
coming up that all maintainers need to notice, it gets sent to
-maintainers. If someone rebuilds a library which others might depend
on, -maintainers. Else, devel/rawhide stuff to -devel and packaging
issues to -packaging.
6307
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9 comments
9 participants
participants (9)
-
Andy Green -
Axel Thimm -
Christopher Aillon -
Jesse Keating -
Karl MacMillan -
Mark McLoughlin -
Matthew Miller -
Thorsten Leemhuis -
Warren Togami