5:59 a.m.
Hi, I noticed gv, ggv, and gpdf were removed from FC3 in favor of
evince. I had never used evince before, so I had no opinion. However
now that I'm using it, it looks very nice, but it's not able to change
orientation of my PDF. That's a major oversight IMHO, since now I have
to read my course documents sideways or use xpdf. IIRC ggv, or gpdf, I
don't remember which, was able to change orientation
--
Ivan Gyurdiev <ivg2(a)cornell.edu>
Cornell University
6 a.m.
On Tue, 2005-03-01 at 06:59 -0500, Ivan Gyurdiev wrote:
Hi, I noticed gv, ggv, and gpdf were removed from FC3 in favor of
evince. I had never used evince before, so I had no opinion. However
now that I'm using it, it looks very nice, but it's not able to change
orientation of my PDF. That's a major oversight IMHO, since now I have
to read my course documents sideways or use xpdf. IIRC ggv, or gpdf, I
don't remember which, was able to change orientation
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/enter_bug.cgi?product=evince
:-)
Cheers,
Mark.
6:24 a.m.
Ivan Gyurdiev writes:
Hi, I noticed gv, ggv, and gpdf were removed from FC3 in favor of
evince. I had never used evince before, so I had no opinion.
I found myself in the same position, so I thought I'd give evince
a go. The only problem is, there is no easy way of trying it out.
"A "yum search evince" comes back empty, for example. Since evince
doesn't even appear to be in FC3, isn't it a bit premature to be
talking about it replacing other (working, available) apps? I guess
I could probably get it from Rawhide, but should that really be
necessary?
I'm all for progress, but I'd rather see at least some overlap between
a proposed new app, and the older apps it's intended to replace,
if for no other reason that giving users a chance to have a side
by side comaprison. Isn't this supposed to be a meritocracy? Let
the best app win? Replacing working and used code with an untried
and untested app seems a little rash...
Tet
6:32 a.m.
On Tue, 2005-03-01 at 12:24 +0000, Tet wrote:
Ivan Gyurdiev writes:
>Hi, I noticed gv, ggv, and gpdf were removed from FC3 in favor of
>evince. I had never used evince before, so I had no opinion.
I found myself in the same position, so I thought I'd give evince
a go. The only problem is, there is no easy way of trying it out.
"A "yum search evince" comes back empty, for example. Since evince
doesn't even appear to be in FC3, isn't it a bit premature to be
talking about it replacing other (working, available) apps? I guess
I could probably get it from Rawhide, but should that really be
necessary?
Unfortunately evince depend on gtk 2.6, so providing FC3 packages is not
possible.
Marco
7:08 a.m.
--- Tet <sta282(a)astradyne.co.uk> wrote:
Marco Pesenti Gritti writes:
>Unfortunately evince depend on gtk 2.6, so
providing FC3 packages is not
>possible.
That's fine. But I'd say it makes deprecating other
apps in favour
of evince premature for FC4.
From my experience using rawhide so far, evince is
good enough
for regular use.
=====
Regards
Rahul Sundaram
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7:18 a.m.
> That's fine. But I'd say it makes deprecating other
> apps in favour
> of evince premature for FC4.
>
>From my experience using rawhide so far, evince is
good enough for regular use.
Sure, let's completely ignore the issue which I just pointed out three
emails above - that should make it go away. I do like evince. I
particularly like the fact that it can select and copy text. For some
reason no other pdf viewer can do that besides xpdf. I was just getting
excited about using evince, but now I find out it can't rotate - not
cool at all. If I've missed it somewhere please point out how evince can
rotate?
--
Ivan Gyurdiev <ivg2(a)cornell.edu>
Cornell University
8:16 a.m.
--- Ivan Gyurdiev <ivg2(a)cornell.edu> wrote:
>> That's fine. But I'd say it makes deprecating
other
>> apps in favour
>> of evince premature for FC4.
>>
>
>>From my experience using rawhide so far, evince is
>good enough for regular use.
Sure, let's completely ignore the issue which I just
pointed out three
emails above - that should make it go away.
you do realise that development on evince hasnt
stopped and its current state in rawhide maybe
completely different from what would ship in fc4. so
you can file bug reports now and see if they are being
actively fixed. if not feel free to complain
its not like ggv which was the default before was a
very good app and you can always install it with yum
if you have problems using evince.
=====
Regards
Rahul Sundaram
__________________________________
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4:02 p.m.
ggv doesn't support mulitple printers...
tir, 01.03.2005 kl. 15.16 skrev Rahul Sundaram:
--- Ivan Gyurdiev <ivg2(a)cornell.edu> wrote:
>
> >> That's fine. But I'd say it makes deprecating
> other
> >> apps in favour
> >> of evince premature for FC4.
> >>
> >
> >>From my experience using rawhide so far, evince is
> >good enough for regular use.
>
> Sure, let's completely ignore the issue which I just
> pointed out three
> emails above - that should make it go away.
you do realise that development on evince hasnt
stopped and its current state in rawhide maybe
completely different from what would ship in fc4. so
you can file bug reports now and see if they are being
actively fixed. if not feel free to complain
its not like ggv which was the default before was a
very good app and you can always install it with yum
if you have problems using evince.
=====
Regards
Rahul Sundaram
__________________________________
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8:27 a.m.
New subject: default app threads [was Re: gpdf vs evince]
On Tue, 2005-03-01 at 08:18 -0500, Ivan Gyurdiev wrote:
Sure, let's completely ignore the issue which I just pointed out three
emails above - that should make it go away. I do like evince. I
particularly like the fact that it can select and copy text. For some
reason no other pdf viewer can do that besides xpdf. I was just getting
excited about using evince, but now I find out it can't rotate - not
cool at all. If I've missed it somewhere please point out how evince can
rotate?
The point Mark was trying to make is, file a bug, people have been
fixing evince at a rapid pace and it will probably get fixed.
Maybe the more general point I'd make is that thread after thread after
thread after thread on this list about default/included applications
looks like this:
- app A has feature X!
- app B has bug Y!
- app C has feature Q!
- app D has feature Z!
- app E has bug W!
Given two apps, guess what, the bug and feature set will not be
perfectly identical and yes both of them will have bugs.
But no that doesn't imply we should include every app under the sun so
you can always find one without some particular bug. It implies that we
should choose the overall best app according to some guidelines better
than "posts about particular features/bugs", some examples:
http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/desktop/defaults.html
And then we should view bugs in the default app as *reason to fix the
default app* not *reason to argue about which app is the default*.
Havoc
7:21 a.m.
Rahul Sundaram writes:
>From my experience using rawhide so far, evince is
good enough for regular use.
Yeah, but the few users that have played with it from Rawhide aren't
enough of a proving ground. It'll only get a decent shakedown with the
widespread use that will come from being part of Core. I think that's
absolutely the right thing to do. I'm just uncomfortable with removing
the older packages until evince has proven itself. Just MHO.
I just hope that when I finally get to try it, it'll be better than the
slow bloated pig that is ggv (I still use gv because ggv sucks so badly).
Tet
8:58 a.m.
On Mar 1 mars 2005 14:21, Tet a écrit :
Rahul Sundaram writes:
>>From my experience using rawhide so far, evince is
>good enough for regular use.
Yeah, but the few users that have played with it from Rawhide aren't
enough of a proving ground. It'll only get a decent shakedown with the
widespread use that will come from being part of Core. I think that's
absolutely the right thing to do. I'm just uncomfortable with removing
the older packages until evince has proven itself. Just MHO.
I just hope that when I finally get to try it, it'll be better than the
slow bloated pig that is ggv (I still use gv because ggv sucks so badly).
evince clearly deprecates gpdf (which was a disaster during its short
life). Anyone that works a lot with pdfs will keep ggv (and probably
acroread) for some time - the codebases are so different they don't share
a lot of bugs
Regards,
--
Nicolas Mailhot
8:20 a.m.
--- Tet <sta282(a)astradyne.co.uk> wrote:
Marco Pesenti Gritti writes:
>Unfortunately evince depend on gtk 2.6, so
providing FC3 packages is not
>possible.
That's fine. But I'd say it makes deprecating other
apps in favour
of evince premature for FC4.
it seems premature to complain about it now :-)
Lets wait for near code freeze and see if Evince has
important missing features and then raise a alert
then. Remember that fc4 will have extras repo enabled
by default too
=====
Regards
Rahul Sundaram
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9:25 a.m.
On Tue, 2005-03-01 at 06:20 -0800, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
it seems premature to complain about it now :-)
Lets wait for near code freeze and see if Evince has
important missing features and then raise a alert
then. Remember that fc4 will have extras repo enabled
by default too
Please don't wait. If there are important features missing, make sure
that bugs are filed ASAP.
--
dwmw2
9:28 a.m.
Hi
Please don't wait. If there are important features
missing, make sure
that bugs are filed ASAP.
I requested that people file bug reports in an earlier
mail. I was just answering the question of "what
happens if evince still has important features missing
when fc4 is about to be shipped"
=====
Regards
Rahul Sundaram
__________________________________
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11:05 a.m.
On Tue, 2005-03-01 at 16:28, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Hi
>
> Please don't wait. If there are important features
> missing, make sure
> that bugs are filed ASAP.
>
I requested that people file bug reports in an earlier
mail. I was just answering the question of "what
happens if evince still has important features missing
when fc4 is about to be shipped"
Well, if this issue with evince is still present on fc4, we can always
try "the simplest solution".
http://iagorubio.com/evince/simplest_solution.png
Just joking 8^)
I hope it gets fixed soon.
--
Iago Rubio
11:15 a.m.
Iago Rubio wrote:
On Tue, 2005-03-01 at 16:28, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
>Hi
>
>
>>Please don't wait. If there are important features
>>missing, make sure
>>that bugs are filed ASAP.
>>
>>
>>
>I requested that people file bug reports in an earlier
>mail. I was just answering the question of "what
>happens if evince still has important features missing
>when fc4 is about to be shipped"
>
>
Well, if this issue with evince is still present on fc4, we can always
try "the simplest solution".
http://iagorubio.com/evince/simplest_solution.png
Just joking 8^)
I hope it gets fixed soon.
hahaha... wow you actualkly took some time for that joke. Thanks for
breaking up my morning :).
-mf
11:20 a.m.
I hope it gets fixed soon.
Bug filed. Hopefully it will have better fate than the bug I filed
saying SMB file browsing in nautilus doesn't work at all. That one's
been open for two months now, in the UNCONFIRMED state with no comment.
Sent another reminder there. Don't blame me if I have no faith in the
bugzilla system - there's a reason for that. I have mozilla bugs that
were opened in 2003.
--
Ivan Gyurdiev <ivg2(a)cornell.edu>
Cornell University
1:10 p.m.
On Tue, 2005-03-01 at 12:20 -0500, Ivan Gyurdiev wrote:
>I hope it gets fixed soon.
Bug filed. Hopefully it will have better fate than the bug I filed
saying SMB file browsing in nautilus doesn't work at all. That one's
been open for two months now, in the UNCONFIRMED state with no comment.
Sent another reminder there. Don't blame me if I have no faith in the
bugzilla system - there's a reason for that. I have mozilla bugs that
were opened in 2003.
Welcome to reality. If you file a bug, you know it's in the priority
queue. It could still be near the bottom, in which case it's likely to
be permanently starved because new stuff gets added to the top
constantly.
If you want guaranteed response time you have two options:
- make your own priority queue and start working on it
in the order of your choice
- pay someone to do that for you
But the simple reality is that number of bugs vastly exceeds developers
to fix them, for any large software project I know of, so the bugs at
the bottom of the list aren't going to get fixed. Grumbling about it on
mailing lists isn't going to change anything.
Havoc
12:07 p.m.
On Tue, 2005-03-01 at 18:05 +0100, Iago Rubio wrote:
On Tue, 2005-03-01 at 16:28, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> Hi
> >
> > Please don't wait. If there are important features
> > missing, make sure
> > that bugs are filed ASAP.
> >
> I requested that people file bug reports in an earlier
> mail. I was just answering the question of "what
> happens if evince still has important features missing
> when fc4 is about to be shipped"
Well, if this issue with evince is still present on fc4, we can always
try "the simplest solution".
http://iagorubio.com/evince/simplest_solution.png
Just joking 8^)
/me ROFL
Thanks!
4:01 p.m.
tir, 01.03.2005 kl. 13.32 skrev Marco Pesenti Gritti:
On Tue, 2005-03-01 at 12:24 +0000, Tet wrote:
> Ivan Gyurdiev writes:
>
> >Hi, I noticed gv, ggv, and gpdf were removed from FC3 in favor of
> >evince. I had never used evince before, so I had no opinion.
>
> I found myself in the same position, so I thought I'd give evince
> a go. The only problem is, there is no easy way of trying it out.
> "A "yum search evince" comes back empty, for example. Since evince
> doesn't even appear to be in FC3, isn't it a bit premature to be
> talking about it replacing other (working, available) apps? I guess
> I could probably get it from Rawhide, but should that really be
> necessary?
Unfortunately evince depend on gtk 2.6, so providing FC3 packages is not
possible.
Marco
Its possible... Just install gtk 2.6 from rawhide. I installed gtk 1.6
that way and evince through the evince repo (haven't happened much there
lately) - and i must say that evince is something like the best pdf/ps
viewer for Linux i know !
Great work!
7:12 a.m.
On Tue, 2005-03-01 at 07:24, Tet wrote:
Ivan Gyurdiev writes:
>Hi, I noticed gv, ggv, and gpdf were removed from FC3 in favor of
>evince. I had never used evince before, so I had no opinion.
I found myself in the same position, so I thought I'd give evince
a go. The only problem is, there is no easy way of trying it out.
"A "yum search evince" comes back empty, for example. Since evince
doesn't even appear to be in FC3, isn't it a bit premature to be
talking about it replacing other (working, available) apps? I guess
I could probably get it from Rawhide, but should that really be
necessary?
I'm all for progress, but I'd rather see at least some overlap between
a proposed new app, and the older apps it's intended to replace,
if for no other reason that giving users a chance to have a side
by side comaprison. Isn't this supposed to be a meritocracy? Let
the best app win? Replacing working and used code with an untried
and untested app seems a little rash...
Evince is just a rewrite of the gpdf code which most people thought was
getting unwieldy to maintain. In a short period of time it surpassed
the functionality of gpdf. Evince is actually being maintained and is
under active development. The other packages I believe may show up in
Extras. Poppler has just been announced which is a fork of the xpdf
codebase into a library which both KDE and Gnome are looking to use as
their pdf viewing backend which all in the long run will create a better
PDF viewer. Fedora is a proving ground for new technologies.
--
J5
8:42 p.m.
On Tue, 2005-03-01 at 12:24 +0000, Tet wrote:
Ivan Gyurdiev writes:
>Hi, I noticed gv, ggv, and gpdf were removed from FC3 in favor of
>evince. I had never used evince before, so I had no opinion.
I'm all for progress, but I'd rather see at least some overlap between
a proposed new app, and the older apps it's intended to replace,
if for no other reason that giving users a chance to have a side
by side comaprison. Isn't this supposed to be a meritocracy? Let
the best app win? Replacing working and used code with an untried
and untested app seems a little rash...
Sure, I'm all for comparison, but I'm pretty confident that the word
'working' doesn't go very well with gpdf.
As for ggv, it's a dog for viewing PDF's and as such, I'm not sure that
'working' is a word that goes with it either.
As someone who has struggled through the PDF handling attempts made over
the years in Redhat and Fedora (and usually solved them by switching
back to xpdf) I'm thrilled about how well evince works, and the speed
with which issue are being fixed in it. If only every other open source
project had the same sort of vitality and enthusiasm.
I know it might be frustrating seeing packages you know (and goodness
knows, might even love) being removed from the next version, but I say
good riddance and welcome to evince.
Rodd
7011
days inactive
7012
days old
22 comments
14 participants
participants (14)
-
David Malcolm -
David Woodhouse -
Havoc Pennington -
Iago Rubio -
Ivan Gyurdiev -
John (J5) Palmieri -
Kyrre Ness Sjobak -
Marco Pesenti Gritti -
Mark McLoughlin -
Michael Favia -
Nicolas Mailhot -
Rahul Sundaram -
Rodd Clarkson -
Tet