docs December 2009

docs@lists.fedoraproject.org

22 participants
56 discussions

Simon's FUDCon zikula session notes
by Mel Chua 05 Dec '09

05 Dec '09

Simon Birtwistle's talk, just completed, on zikula - a CMS that's going to be used by Docs and Marketing and News (in various ways for each). It was awesomeness, and the crowd was fun. http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fudcon-room-2/2009-12-05/fudcon-room-2.200… Max and I had this transcribing-tag-team-thing going on here, so the full logs are pretty complete (WOO! LOGS!) - we ended with a game plan for the hackfest on Sunday and Monday, which I'll post shortly. --Mel

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Fedora 13 Draft Schedule
by John Poelstra 04 Dec '09

04 Dec '09

Greetings, Below are some links to the schedule I've drafted for Fedora 13. Most of it is automatically generated based on how we built the Fedora 12 schedule. Here are a few different views: http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-13-draft/f-13-docs-tasks.html http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-13-draft/f-13-docs-and-trans-t… In some cases the tasks may not line up correctly for Fedora 13 which I'll need to know about. In others you may want to make adjustments based on how things went during Fedora 12. That is perfectly fine too :) I would like to review this in person at FUDCon on Sunday (2009-12-06) during one of the hackfest sessions. In the meantime feel free to reply with obvious errors or changes you'd like me to make before we meet. Look forward to talking soon. John

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Documentation Desktop Presentation
by John J. McDonough 03 Dec '09

03 Dec '09

Last night at our meeting we had a discussion of options for presenting installed documentation. By way of background, we have traditionally provided the Release Notes and the About Fedora document in yelp. A few other documents were placed in the /usr/share/doc/HTML directory prior to Fedora 11, but no links were provided to those documents. Some were actually in html, others were plain text. As of Fedora 12, all the documents are available in html, html-single and pdf, but only the Release Notes and About Fedora are installed by default, and only a handful (maybe one) are available as installable packages. Publican packages documents as a single language per package, which can be extremely clumsy if one wants multiple languages. However, the package creation is totally automatic and hence appealing. Release Notes have been traditionally packaged manually, and that has continued since converting to Publican. There are also delivery alternatives, but I see them as a separate issue, so I have focused solely on the presentation under the assumption we are including documentation that has been installed via traditional Fedora installation vehicles. I've put together the presentation options as I see them at: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Desktop_Documentation_Presentation_Options I am sure there are other possibilities, and there must be advantages and disadvantages to all the options that I overlooked. I would ask you to review the wiki page and ADD TO IT. Document issues and advantages of any of the schemes that you can recognize, and also ideas for other approaches. Thanks --McD

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Docs Meeting 2009-12-03 Summary
by Eric Christensen 03 Dec '09

03 Dec '09

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 =================================================================================================== #fedora-meeting: Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings =================================================================================================== Meeting started by Sparks at 00:00:29 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-12-03/fedora-meeting.2… . Meeting summary - --------------- * Roll Call (Sparks, 00:00:35) * Docs Project Leader Elections (Sparks, 00:05:42) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Leader_Elections (Sparks, 00:06:03) * ACTION: Sparks to remain Docs Leader for another year. (Sparks, 00:12:05) * Release Notes (Sparks, 00:17:50) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=538159 (Sparks, 00:52:21) * ACTION: jjmcd to summarize discussion on wiki (jjmcd, 00:58:39) * ACTION: jjmcd to summarize discussion on wiki (jjmcd, 00:59:43) * docs.fedoraproject.org (Sparks, 01:08:22) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=543540 (Sparks, 01:08:33) * Guide Status (Sparks, 01:18:00) * New Guides (Sparks, 01:25:40) * Status on CMS (Zikula) (Sparks, 01:26:32) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status (Sparks, 01:26:41) * Outstanding BZ Tickets (Sparks, 01:39:41) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&classificatio… (Sparks, 01:40:26) * All other business (Sparks, 01:41:44) * LINK: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-announce-list/2009-December/msg00000.… (ianweller, 01:47:46) Meeting ended at 01:51:37 UTC. Action Items - ------------ * Sparks to remain Docs Leader for another year. * jjmcd to summarize discussion on wiki * jjmcd to summarize discussion on wiki Action Items, by person - ----------------------- * jjmcd * jjmcd to summarize discussion on wiki * jjmcd to summarize discussion on wiki * Sparks * Sparks to remain Docs Leader for another year. * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) - --------------------------- * Sparks (156) * jjmcd (98) * ianweller (25) * rudi (20) * ke4qqq (20) * Tsagadai-netbook (16) * danielsmw (7) * zodbot (4) * bcotton (4) * bugbot_ (4) * abadger1999 (1) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAksXQEkACgkQfQTSQL0MFMFhOACgvqPMqkowDmCbd9EthuArMkyx wuoAoI7ca/dfBhWyqMZGRr62wVcxH8oo =ToKc -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Docs Meeting 2009-12-03 IRC log
by Eric Christensen 03 Dec '09

03 Dec '09

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 00:00:29 <Sparks> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 00:00:29 <zodbot> Meeting started Thu Dec 3 00:00:29 2009 UTC. The chair is Sparks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 00:00:30 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 00:00:35 <Sparks> #topic Roll Call 00:00:36 * Sparks 00:00:41 * danielsmw 00:00:53 * jjmcd . 00:01:03 * bcotton is here 00:01:21 * ianweller 00:02:05 <Sparks> Wow! Lots of people here tonight! 00:02:33 <jjmcd> Mssr. Landmann indicated he was swamped today so I'm not sure we'll see him 00:02:45 <bcotton> wow it's like every party i've ever hosted 00:03:16 <Sparks> jjmcd: Figures... just when we have complaints on his work... :) 00:03:25 <jjmcd> heh 00:04:49 <Sparks> speak of the devil 00:04:50 <jjmcd> Hey look 00:05:25 <Sparks> Okay, let's get started 00:05:42 <Sparks> #topic Docs Project Leader Elections 00:06:03 <Sparks> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Leader_Elections 00:06:28 <Sparks> So would anyone else like to nominate anyone to head up this awesome project? 00:07:05 <jjmcd> I heard a rumor about ianweller 00:07:11 <jjmcd> somewhere 00:07:14 <Sparks> jjmcd: You know, I heard that too 00:07:21 <ianweller> i'm honored but i have zero time 00:07:26 <ianweller> it's my senior year in high school :P 00:07:27 <Sparks> must not be a rumor anymore if more than me heard it 00:07:40 * Sparks thought the senior year was the slack off year 00:07:42 <jjmcd> Well, at least it's non-negative like the rest of us 00:08:02 * danielsmw confirms Sparks assertion 00:08:03 <Sparks> heh 00:08:54 <ianweller> :) 00:08:59 <ianweller> i would slack off but my extra curriculars are insane 00:09:04 <Sparks> Okay so am I the only one up for this job? 00:09:18 <jjmcd> I think so 00:09:19 <danielsmw> *nod* 00:09:20 * Sparks thinks ianweller will have some other kind of excuse for next year 00:09:33 <jjmcd> Seems to say not too many are upset with the job you are doing 00:09:57 <Sparks> Okay... all in favor of continuing to have me head this monster up. 00:10:04 <jjmcd> +1 00:10:09 <bcotton> +1 00:10:10 <danielsmw> +1 00:10:10 <ianweller> +1 00:10:28 <ianweller> unless you really don't want it :P 00:11:05 <Sparks> and then what? 00:11:13 <danielsmw> then we're headless. 00:11:20 <jjmcd> give it back to stickster 00:11:23 <Sparks> we're close to that now 00:11:29 <Sparks> where is stickster_afk anyway? 00:11:38 <danielsmw> he's afk... 00:11:44 <danielsmw> :) 00:11:45 <jjmcd> I think he is still vacationing 00:11:47 <Sparks> okay... so I guess I'm hired on for another year. 00:11:54 <ianweller> jjmcd: no, he's been back 00:12:05 <Sparks> #action Sparks to remain Docs Leader for another year. 00:12:09 <jjmcd> Didn't he tweet like he had a couple more days he was going to try to play with the kids 00:12:30 <Sparks> ya 00:15:56 <jjmcd> So Sparks is steeling himself with another brandy 00:16:29 <Sparks> jjmcd: SPC just issued a PDS for NC where my folks lived. Had to give them a call. 00:16:39 <Sparks> Okay... well thanks for the vote of support... I think. 00:16:55 <jjmcd> just days before SRD, too 00:17:29 * Sparks makes a note to talk to stickster_afk about his pay raise now that he's tenured. 00:17:50 <Sparks> #topic Release Notes 00:18:05 <Sparks> jjmcd: So you want to talk about Yelp v. HTML 00:18:07 <jjmcd> I bet he would go for a 10% hike if you ask nice 00:18:14 <jjmcd> Yeah, here's the deal 00:18:22 <jjmcd> We currently use yelp to display RNs 00:18:42 <jjmcd> This gives us automatic language selection and integration with the rest of gnome help 00:18:59 <jjmcd> yelp has some limits, tho, and it doesn't help our KDE users 00:19:23 <jjmcd> Jeff Fearn suggested some javascript so we could get the lang selection in html 00:19:50 <jjmcd> I had to fix his script, but it does work. We can get automatic language selection of RNs in both Gnome and KDE 00:20:05 <jjmcd> Downside is that it is no longer integrated with the rest of help 00:20:25 <jjmcd> Upsides it gets us KDE and gets away from some yelp clumsiness. 00:21:00 <Sparks> jjmcd: Should we also discuss what shaunm (from GNOME) said? 00:21:00 <jjmcd> I wanted to get peoples thoughts on that .. basically a separate menu choice under Documentation for RNs, under System in KDE 00:21:07 <jjmcd> Yes, 00:21:44 <jjmcd> shaunm indicated that the current langiage selection scheme in yelp will be changed, and we might be able to integrate html too, in yelp 3.0 00:21:50 <jjmcd> but I have no idea the timeline 00:22:12 <Sparks> jjmcd: He also wants to have a meeting in March to discuss documentation... 00:22:26 <Sparks> so this might be a way to have a single file go into GNOME and KDE similarly. 00:22:44 <jjmcd> Of course, we have no idea what the Publican/Yelp issues are in the new scheme. And yes, he wants to get together to get something that may be even more cool 00:22:59 <Sparks> I'm going to speculate here... there may be fixes coming soon in Yelp that may fix some of the problems we've seen recently. 00:23:15 <Sparks> and then there is the idea that abadger1999 had 00:23:19 <jjmcd> With the html, the only thing we add for KDE is a .desktop file 00:23:26 <jjmcd> which was 00:23:36 <Sparks> which is to provide a separate, non-packaging means, to getting documentation to the desktop 00:23:51 <Sparks> probably through PackageKit 00:24:07 <jjmcd> Oh yeah. I got to admit I saw that as something a little far out, but certainly we ought to explore it. 00:24:14 <abadger1999> (Note: my idea will need coding work to see the light of day) 00:24:37 <jjmcd> At this point it is hard to see what we might get that would go beyond rpm that would be useful 00:24:48 <jjmcd> But then I'm an old fogey with limited imagination 00:24:56 <Sparks> abadger1999: Ya... but definitely worth mentioning! 00:25:21 * Sparks whacks jjmcd with an imagination stick 00:25:27 <Tsagadai-netbook> Sparks, is there any reason why we can't use RPMs? 00:25:27 <jjmcd> Some time back we talked abuot a separate rpm repo because we might want to have a LOT of packages 00:25:51 <rudi> FWIW, in RHEL, we add a .desktop file for GNOME too 00:26:03 <Sparks> Tsagadai-netbook: There are some issues to using RPMs... and two ways to package the languages... and pros and cons for eac 00:26:13 <Sparks> s/eac/each 00:26:17 <jjmcd> Tsagadai-netbook, I think the discussion was that if we looked specifically at content, there might be additional useful functionality 00:26:27 <rudi> Which is, I guess, RHEL's way of getting around the "no longer integrated with the rest of help" issue 00:26:57 <rudi> (whether stand-alone documentation belongs in help is a different (and religious!) question) 00:27:15 <jjmcd> rudi, I agree that one might make the argument either way 00:27:34 <jjmcd> I am always concerned when I talk about changing how things look to the user 00:28:19 <jjmcd> Personally, I would like to see the guides in yelp, too. But I don't want to write all the .omf's 00:28:31 <Sparks> I, personally, would like to get everyone in the know in a room together and hash out this entire issue 00:29:03 <rudi> Sparks -- with pointy sticks? 00:29:04 <jjmcd> Second choice would be a doc menu with the Jeff language solution (and smarter ,.desktop files for the guides) 00:29:38 <Sparks> rudi: pointy sticks not required. There are so many ideas it's hard to get them all out asyncronously or via IRC 00:30:06 <jjmcd> Well, if we do it in yelp I think we should also do it in khelpcenter, and I'm not so sure I want to do that, either 00:31:05 <jjmcd> Sparks, you got that right. What we need is some sort of web page where everyone could put their ideas 00:31:11 <rudi> I'm still working on a proof-of-concept package for the Install Guide to see whether Yelp can render a doc of that size and complexity at all 00:31:20 <Sparks> Anyone know when the next FUDCon NA will be? 00:31:29 <jjmcd> hmmmm 00:31:33 <Sparks> jjmcd: Like... ummm... a wiki? 00:31:44 <jjmcd> Maybe something like that, yeah 00:31:50 <Sparks> does yelp == khelpcenter? 00:32:02 <jjmcd> functionally similar 00:32:13 <Sparks> same file types? 00:32:24 <jjmcd> WHAT? Are you nuts? 00:32:26 <Sparks> errr 00:32:40 <Sparks> Can I take the same file and have each render the file similarly? 00:33:05 <Sparks> I'm guessing not 00:33:09 <jjmcd> Acually, I think khelpcenter is looking for html, yelp wants xml 00:33:11 <Sparks> which goes on my shopping list for March 00:34:08 <jjmcd> So are you going to come to chi in march? 00:34:26 <jjmcd> Still pretty cold in the windy city 00:34:31 <Sparks> jjmcd: If I must. I think I can take the train for <$180 00:34:51 <jjmcd> how many days? 00:35:17 <Sparks> 1 00:35:27 <Sparks> ish 00:35:31 <jjmcd> surprised, I figgered it would be 3 00:35:35 <Sparks> nah 00:35:46 <Sparks> it's a short(er) trip 00:36:34 <Sparks> Of course I haven't received my official invitation or found a golden ticket in a candy bar, yet 00:37:03 <Sparks> IMO, we need to be working with Yelp upstream to see what's coming down. 00:37:12 <jjmcd> shaunm didn't say exactly where yet, either 00:37:28 <Sparks> If it's going to be a complete drag then we can go with html on the desktop 00:37:46 <jjmcd> I would hope something close to ORD 00:37:58 <jjmcd> With Jeff's code the HTML isn't all that awful 00:38:00 <Sparks> but if we could integrate better into Yelp and khelpcenter then I feel that it might be better that way. Just my opinion, though 00:38:10 <jjmcd> I agree with that 00:38:47 <jjmcd> Some people don't like that with yelp you get yelp's rendering, rather than playing with your own stylesheets 00:38:54 <jjmcd> But as far as I'm concerned, its one less thing to mess with 00:40:04 <Sparks> Yelp helps with accessibility, though 00:40:28 <jjmcd> yep 00:40:51 <Tsagadai-netbook> Sparks, if you have a travel budget I'll happily come and visit :) 00:40:51 <Sparks> rudi: Are you in cahoots with khelpcenter upstream? 00:41:05 <rudi> Sparks, no 00:41:19 <Sparks> Tsagadai-netbook: A travel budget? Yeah, it's 10% of whatever stickster_afk pays me 00:41:22 <rudi> But I *can* confirm that the help docs are in html 00:41:30 <Sparks> Tsagadai-netbook: not sure you can get very far on that, though 00:41:43 <rudi> Just looking at them now in /usr/share/doc/HTML/ 00:42:10 <Sparks> rudi: cool. It'd be nice if both were using the same format 00:42:24 <Sparks> maybe we should get both to implement the other format they aren't supporting 00:42:41 <rudi> Agreed. GNOME should just fork HelpCenter 00:43:11 <Tsagadai-netbook> I was joking :) 00:43:17 <Sparks> Tsagadai-netbook: :) 00:43:24 <Sparks> Tsagadai-netbook: You can still come, though 00:43:34 <jjmcd> It is interesting. Yelp is more appealing because the index doesn't point to hundreds of help files. For some reason, KDE seems to insist on a manual even if its empty 00:43:37 <Tsagadai-netbook> I intend to at some stage 00:43:50 * rudi would love to get to one too :) 00:43:59 * Tsagadai-netbook has not been to that continent yet :) 00:44:17 * jjmcd hasn't been to rudi's continent 00:44:35 * Sparks wants to visit AU 00:44:42 <Sparks> but is scared he might stay 00:45:00 <Sparks> Okay... just to recap 00:45:04 <jjmcd> been to europe and asia but hasn't yet been to any of those upside-down continents 00:45:32 <Sparks> Plan A is to work with upstream Yelp and possibly khelpcenter to work out the issues we are having 00:45:40 <Sparks> Plan B is to just put HTML on the desktop 00:45:43 <Sparks> is there a Plan C? 00:45:55 <Tsagadai-netbook> I'd say plan B is better :) 00:46:05 <Tsagadai-netbook> we know browsers work 00:46:07 <jjmcd> Well, providing for khelpcenter IS html for now 00:46:21 <jjmcd> Tsagadai-netbook, we had serious doubts this morning 00:46:30 <rudi> We should also find out what Xfce uses 00:46:35 <Tsagadai-netbook> jjmcd, about browsers? 00:46:39 <jjmcd> And based on Jeff's recent comment to my bug, maybe still 00:46:39 <Sparks> yeah and Sugar 00:46:48 <rudi> Since that seems to be getting some traction 00:46:52 <jjmcd> Tsagadai-netbook, yeah 00:46:55 <Tsagadai-netbook> Moblin doesn't have working help on fedora :) 00:47:14 <Tsagadai-netbook> so we can skip it for now :) 00:47:35 <rudi> LXDE? 00:47:42 <Tsagadai-netbook> jjmcd, I missed the "morning" discussion. What's wrong with browsers? 00:48:24 <jjmcd> We were having inconsistencies in detecting the language browser to browser. Sounds like it is still a problem on RHEL, but for Fedora I think I have a workaround 00:49:00 <jjmcd> Still have quite a few to test, tho. Certainly we will fail on Mosaic and Dillo and probably others 00:49:25 <jjmcd> Tsagadai-netbook, we have like a dozen browsers on Fedora 00:49:41 <Tsagadai-netbook> jjmcd, do we need to support the obscure ones? 00:49:57 <Tsagadai-netbook> or just file bugs with the projects that they don't display properly 00:50:13 <jjmcd> Well, if someone chooses Dillo as their default I can't say I have a lot of sympathy for them 00:50:28 * Tsagadai-netbook notes there are a dozen browsers on fedora but they all have a marketshare smaller than IE4 00:50:34 <jjmcd> But Mosaic, heck, that is THE classic 00:50:48 <Tsagadai-netbook> works on elinks and lynx 00:50:56 <Tsagadai-netbook> what more could people want? 00:51:18 <jjmcd> Well, Jeff wasn't very receptive to making lynx work on rhel 00:51:52 <jjmcd> see BZ#538159 00:52:05 <Sparks> .bug 538159 00:52:07 <bugbot_> Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=538159 low, low, - ---, jfearn, NEW, Publican should package multiple languages 00:52:07 <zodbot> Sparks: Bug 538159 Publican should package multiple languages - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=538159 00:52:08 <bugbot_> Bug 538159: low, low, ---, jfearn, NEW, Publican should package multiple languages 00:52:21 <Sparks> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=538159 00:52:23 <bugbot_> Bug 538159: low, low, ---, jfearn, NEW, Publican should package multiple languages 00:53:01 <Sparks> doh! 00:53:25 <jjmcd> bugbot, zodbot, these computers are taking over 00:53:50 <Sparks> jjmcd: Is there a standard for rendering languages like what we're asking it to do? 00:54:14 <Sparks> If there is and they aren't meeting it then we can file bugs against those browsers for it. 00:54:26 <jjmcd> It seems like the issue is around the DOM and how it interacts with JS. Every browser interprets JS differently 00:54:49 <jjmcd> I haven't even attempted IE, I be that will be a whole new experience 00:55:16 * Sparks doesn't like js 00:55:23 <jjmcd> But since I am looking at Fedora help menu items, I don't think IE will be a big issue 00:55:31 <jjmcd> nor I, Sparks 00:56:03 <jjmcd> But I bet if I said <SCRIPT LANG="vbasic" I wouldn't get very far 00:56:28 <Sparks> *snicker* 00:56:54 <jjmcd> In these days of AJAX, tho, you can't avoid it 00:57:59 <Sparks> Okay. well I think we are spinning our wheels at this point. 00:58:11 <jjmcd> Sparks, do you want an rpm so you can study it? 00:58:15 <Sparks> we need to get this information into a wiki page so we can see it all. 00:58:29 <Sparks> a multi lang rpm? sure 00:58:39 <jjmcd> #action jjmcd to summarize discussion on wiki 00:58:54 <jjmcd> oops you didn't turn me on, oh well 00:59:32 <Sparks> I think it did it anyway. I don't think there is any feedback on that command 00:59:36 <Sparks> #chair jjmcd 00:59:36 <zodbot> Current chairs: Sparks jjmcd 00:59:43 <jjmcd> #action jjmcd to summarize discussion on wiki 01:00:13 <jjmcd> huh - wasn;t it #action? Must be we don't want to do that 01:00:14 <Sparks> jjmcd: I'd like the wiki page to show something along the lines of each plan... and an area to put PROs and CONs... thoughts? 01:00:27 <jjmcd> yeah 01:00:38 <jjmcd> And pehaps fantasies for yelp 4.0 01:00:46 <Sparks> ya 01:01:37 <Sparks> Just a quick poll... If we had a FAD at an upcoming FUDCon... could people make Boston, Raleigh, or a point on the west coast (of the US) easier? 01:02:29 * Sparks thinks everyone went to sleep... 01:02:40 <jjmcd> depends on the time of year 01:02:56 <jjmcd> You gotta be nuts to go to Boston in the winter, Raleigh in the summer 01:03:46 <Sparks> Raleigh is great in the summer... 01:03:59 <jjmcd> although I have been known to go to Edmonton in the winter and Houston in the summer so there's no accounting 01:05:08 <jjmcd> Why not something temperate like NYC or Philly or central like Chi 01:05:17 <Sparks> I don't know 01:05:41 <Sparks> They have traditionally been in Boston. My first one was in Raleigh a couple of years ago. It rocked. 01:05:50 <bcotton> West Lafayette is beautiful year round :-) 01:05:53 <jjmcd> NYC, Chi, Denver, Mineapolis, Atlanta - easy to get to 01:06:50 <Sparks> Okay... just open thoughts from someone who can't control the tides much less the next FUDCon 01:06:57 <jjmcd> hehe 01:07:03 <Sparks> Anything else on the release notes before moving on? 01:08:22 <Sparks> #topic docs.fedoraproject.org 01:08:33 <Sparks> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=543540 01:08:34 <bugbot_> Bug 543540: medium, low, ---, eric, ASSIGNED, Usability of http://docs.fedoraproject.org/ is poor 01:08:53 <Sparks> So there is a complaint against the way our webpage is designed 01:09:17 <jjmcd> You can't fight the Schneemann curve 01:10:10 <Sparks> so has Mizmo evaluated the latest work? 01:11:15 <Sparks> just out of curiosity 01:11:32 <rudi> We would *love* to be able to do away with manually selecting languages 01:11:40 <Sparks> yes 01:11:51 <Sparks> which is something that Zikula was supposed to help us with 01:11:53 <rudi> And inheriting that from the Fedora start page or from the user's browser 01:11:59 <rudi> Absoluitely 01:12:32 <Sparks> Is this something we want to deal with or just put that effort in getting Zikula up and running 01:13:27 <rudi> My inclination is "wait for Zikiula" 01:13:30 <jjmcd> Will zikula answer the problem or just make it harder to fix? 01:13:39 <rudi> But I'll take a closer look at the suggestion 01:13:51 <Sparks> I think it will answer the problem but if not it will change what we have to fix 01:14:05 <Sparks> rudi: do you want to grab the ticket? 01:14:11 <rudi> OK 01:14:29 <Sparks> either way we will not have this problem by F13... knock on wood 01:14:52 <rudi> Oh G-d please yes 01:15:03 <jjmcd> dreamer 01:15:34 <Sparks> Hopefully next week we'll have some more information on Zikula 01:17:46 <Sparks> Okay... moving on 01:18:00 <Sparks> #topic Guide Status 01:18:18 <Sparks> Anyone have anything they'd like to talk about on their guides? 01:18:50 <Sparks> I will note that the accessibility guide (english) got pushed to update repo today 01:20:21 <jjmcd> Don't like those other languages? 01:20:42 <Sparks> I'm waiting for the Transifex upgrade... 01:21:01 <jjmcd> wuss 01:21:23 <Sparks> Okay... THEY are waiting for... 01:23:24 <Sparks> I might suggest we go the old way if we get close to F13 01:23:51 <Sparks> I think radsy got his photos squared away in the wireless guide so that should be coming to a desktop near you soon 01:24:21 <Sparks> anything else? 01:24:47 * ke4qqq is here, but way late 01:24:57 <jjmcd> WOW 01:25:32 <Sparks> ke4qqq: Nah, just in time! 01:25:40 <Sparks> #topic New Guides 01:25:46 <Sparks> Any new guides out there? 01:26:32 <Sparks> #topic Status on CMS (Zikula) 01:26:41 <Sparks> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status 01:26:49 * ke4qqq knew I should have kept my mouth shut :) 01:26:56 <Sparks> :) 01:27:02 <Sparks> No! Glad you are here! 01:27:19 <Sparks> I think there is to be some work done this weekend at FUDCon. 01:27:49 <ke4qqq> yep 01:28:11 <ke4qqq> they have worked on cleaning up some of the licesning stuff in a few modules recently 01:28:55 <Sparks> excellent 01:29:08 <Sparks> So you'll have it rolled out and ready by 2010? 01:29:22 <ke4qqq> well insight at least :) 01:29:48 <ke4qqq> but that's a big chunk of the work for docs. 01:30:38 <Sparks> what's the delta? 01:30:52 <ke4qqq> while I am not able to go to fudcon - (thursday and friday travel problems) but I'll be participating sat and sun remotely. 01:31:16 <Sparks> ke4qqq: Cool 01:31:56 * Sparks should probably do the same 01:34:05 <Sparks> ke4qqq: Do we know what the delta is between Insight and what we want? 01:35:34 <ke4qqq> just modules largely 01:35:49 <Sparks> Are those modules built? 01:35:53 <ke4qqq> and essentially that we are using more of them than they are 01:36:00 <ke4qqq> about 65/35 at the moment 01:36:08 <ke4qqq> everything that isn't built is a licensing issue 01:36:17 <ke4qqq> though those are becoming fewer by the minute 01:36:34 <Sparks> cool 01:36:41 <ke4qqq> well week perhaps 01:36:52 <Sparks> :) 01:37:10 <Sparks> Has the remote instructions posted somewhere for the FUDCon? 01:37:27 <Sparks> Have the remote instructions been posted somewhere for the FUDCon? 01:37:50 <ke4qqq> not that I know of 01:38:10 <Sparks> ok 01:38:24 <Sparks> anything else on the Zikula homefront? 01:38:50 <ke4qqq> nothing from me - aside from the fact 1.2.0 was released a few weeks ago 01:39:01 <ke4qqq> and cures a lot of problems we've asked for fixes for 01:39:12 <ke4qqq> among other things 01:39:25 <Sparks> cool 01:39:36 <Sparks> Okay, moving on 01:39:41 <Sparks> #topic Outstanding BZ Tickets 01:40:26 <Sparks> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&classificatio… 01:40:57 <Sparks> I'm not going to go through all the outstanding tickets but if you can close some please do so! 01:41:33 <Sparks> We've been doing pretty well, lately. 01:41:44 <Sparks> #topic All other business 01:41:51 <Sparks> Okay, anything else? 01:42:08 <ianweller> i wanna praise the docs team this release 01:42:11 <ianweller> we did some really cool stuff 01:42:20 <Sparks> agreed 01:42:21 <ianweller> i know i wasn't involved in a lot of it, mostly zikula (slightly) and relicensing 01:42:54 <Sparks> We doubled the number of guides we had from F11 and completely moved to Publican which we've been trying to do for a while. 01:43:40 <ianweller> and got ourselves off a content island. woo! :) 01:43:46 <Sparks> :) 01:43:46 * ke4qqq notes he just got paged out for a server failure 01:43:59 <Sparks> ke4qqq: Bah... we know better than that 01:44:14 <ke4qqq> +1 the docs team this release did awesome work - I wish I could have participated more, you guys made it look easy and did great work 01:44:17 <ke4qqq> Sparks: I wish 01:44:38 * Sparks notes that the AU team made it look easy for us 01:45:19 <Sparks> Okay, anything else before I close out this very productive meeting? 01:46:43 <ianweller> oh 01:46:56 <ianweller> if you ahven't read it on f-announce-list, there's an infrastructure move this weekend 01:47:00 <ianweller> er 01:47:01 <ianweller> next weekend 01:47:09 <Sparks> yeah... BIG move 01:47:18 <ianweller> moving most of our core servers 01:47:27 <ianweller> wiki will be down for sure, i think CVS is too, and accounts system might be down 01:47:33 <ianweller> so. just a friendly reminder :) 01:47:46 <ianweller> http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-announce-list/2009-December/msg00000.… 01:48:25 <Sparks> why is the move occuring? 01:48:36 <ianweller> so that infra can expand more in the PHX location 01:48:37 <ianweller> mostly 01:48:59 <ianweller> "This move is planned to be completed on December 15th and 01:48:59 <ianweller> will ultimately provide better hosting facilities and room for growth. 01:49:59 <ianweller> Sparks: i'm done :) 01:50:21 <Sparks> cool 01:50:26 <Sparks> Okay, anyone have anything else? 01:51:34 <Sparks> Okay, thanks everyone for coming out today. 01:51:37 <Sparks> #endmeeting -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAksXQAcACgkQfQTSQL0MFMFTTACgpGjZlAUeUuEFy1j0zPuKXZ0l 0g0AoJv/u4jz2VX61dL72MKbR2qahg+o =UYq0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Fedora Docs Meeting Reminder
by Eric Christensen 02 Dec '09

02 Dec '09

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 REMINDER: There will be a Fedora Docs Meeting today at 0001 UTC. The agenda can be found at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.10 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAksW9JcACgkQfQTSQL0MFMFz6QCggFX+HW/W/qF00aLKzKQKHonS 8bsAoLS1IUNFCyMTKVYhi6J0HqcwdYNv =zGhX -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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