2:28 p.m.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:Docs_IRC_log_20090204
11:01 < quaid> <meeting id="Docs team">
11:02 < jjmcd> yo
11:02 < zoglesby> hello
11:03 * jjmcd may be a little slow on the uptake today ... got drops
in his eyes and can't see so good
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11:04 * quaid getting link to agenda, on sec
11:04 < quaid>
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Wed...
11:06 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg ::
F11 schedule confirmation/ratification
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11:06 < quaid> if you look at that page above, there are links to the
schedule and poelcat's last post on it
11:07 < quaid>
http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-11/f-11-docs-tasks.html
11:07 < quaid> that's our main one
11:07 * stickster back now
11:07 < quaid> anyone had a chance to look at that before?
11:07 < stickster> quaid: This one might help too:
11:08 < stickster>
http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-11/f-11-docs-and-trans-tasks...
11:08 < stickster> Shows lining up of Docs w/L10n.
11:08 < stickster> I sent poelcat a comment or two about that one IIRC
11:08 < quaid> wazzat?
11:09 < jjmcd> What precisely is "String freeze"?
11:09 < stickster> I think it was a clarification of how the item was
stated on one line.
11:09 < quaid> jjmcd: it is
11:09 < stickster> jjmcd: The point beyond which strings are not
changed
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11:09 < stickster> jjmcd: For software, that means no further changes
to dialog text, etc. that would make more work for translators.
11:10 < jjmcd> aha
11:10 < stickster> jjmcd: That way, starting with the string freeze,
they are working with set-in-stone POTs for everything
11:10 < stickster> jjmcd: *occasionally* they will change, but
violating the string freeze has to be requested from the L10n, or
at least announced, and justified
11:10 < quaid> same for content
11:11 < quaid> so on our schedule, a "Translation Deadline" is the
deadline for the l10n team to finish trans
11:11 * ke4qqq is late
11:11 < quaid> where a string freeze is our deadline for getting
content finished for l10n to start on
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11:11 < jjmcd> OK, so basically, L10n focuses on translating software
for beta, docs for release
11:12 < quaid> for preview and final release
11:12 * quaid confirms that
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11:12 < jjmcd> yah, didn't scroll all the way down to previes
11:12 < quaid> that's actually where it gets confusing
11:12 -!- jwb [n=jwboyer@fedora/jwb] has joined #fedora-meeting
11:12 < quaid> the time between beta and preview is so tight ...
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11:14 < quaid> yeah, it looks like 4-14 is the trans deadline for the
release notes, and we build it on 4-21
11:14 < jjmcd> seems like for F10 we had like 3 betas
11:16 < quaid> ok, I don't think I see anything that bothers me
11:16 < quaid> what other clarifications can we provide?
11:18 * stickster waves to ke4qqq
11:18 < quaid> we should hear from Sparks (and ke4qqq !) before
ratifying
11:18 < quaid> we can push this to later via IRC when they are
available.
11:19 < jjmcd> and ryanlerch
11:19 < quaid> that is, I think ke4qqq was there and jsmith certainly
was when we made the schedule
11:19 < quaid> yeah, good point
11:19 < quaid> how about this
11:19 < stickster> Right
11:19 < quaid> I'll take the task of talking with everyone today
11:19 < stickster> We should just ask Sparks to stamp it (if agreed)
and communicate with Poelstra
11:19 * ke4qqq waves back at stickster
11:19 * stickster just totally resaid what everyone else just said.
11:19 < quaid> and we'll get questions or approval or whatever worked
out by ~0100 UTC Th.
11:20 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg ::
CMS update
11:20 < quaid> good timing ke4qqq
11:20 < ke4qqq> lol
11:20 < ke4qqq> I suppose
11:20 < jjmcd> Does ryanlerch even come online by then? Thats only la
few hours from now
11:21 < ke4qqq> he's got almost 4 hours
11:21 * jjmcd shouldn't have told the optometrist "oh yeah, we can do
the dilation thing this year"
11:21 < quaid> jjmcd: yeah, unless he sleeps in, six hours from now is
late enough
11:22 < quaid> 0100 isn't a hard deadline, that's roughly COB on PST.
11:22 < jjmcd> K, I knew I've been seeing him in tghe evening, but
haven't been watching the clock that close
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11:22 < ke4qqq> anyway - CMS - so 1.1.1 zikula came out, and they are
actually doing a dedicated server build (as opposed to shared
hosting) to accommodate some of my complaints, but they'll have
that available to everyone
11:23 -!- kulll [n=kulll(a)203.82.91.34] has joined #fedora-meeting
11:23 < ke4qqq> rpm wise - I merely have to get the config file
squared away to deal with all of the changes I requested that they
made - otherwise it looks fine. I hopefully will have something
up in a few days, and plan to dedicate the weekend to working
on doing final tweaking
11:23 * quaid doesn't think Infra knew they'd get such a good vetting
from Docs :)
11:24 < ke4qqq> yeah I thought the 16 .htaccess files was a bit
overkill
11:24 < ke4qqq> I mean I see the need, but it's drastically slower
11:25 < ke4qqq> so we'll have a dedicated .conf file to handle all of
that
11:25 < ke4qqq> anyway that's just the base package
11:25 < ke4qqq> we also have IIRC 8 modules
11:26 < ke4qqq> that we'll need to package I think
11:27 < quaid> are the Zikula folks interested in co-maintaining?
11:27 < ke4qqq> yes one of the zikula guys is working on the modules
11:27 * quaid is on the watch for packages Docs relies upon that only
have a single maintainer :)
11:27 < quaid> kewl
11:27 < stickster> :-)
11:28 < ke4qqq> and they actually did the first push on the core
package rpm, just some packaging guidelines that needed to be
addressed
11:28 * mmcgrath wonders if his notes to the list made sense about
authentication
11:29 < ke4qqq> mmcgrath: they did, but honestly I wasn't aware that
either of the test sites were authing yet, just that we had
discussed auth
11:30 * ke4qqq notes that's another module that we'll have to build a
package for - as soon as we get source
11:31 < ke4qqq> and in response to your most recent message - IIRC
there is already a cmsadmin group in fas now
11:31 < ke4qqq> sparks requested it last week
11:31 < mmcgrath> k, I'll re-create it in the test system
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11:33 < stickster> mmcgrath: I had to read between the lines a little
-- what you meant is that we shouldn't be sending usernames and
passphrases to a system that's not managed by the Fedora
Infrastructure team, right?
11:33 < stickster> i.e. it's not a problem with Zikula or anyone else
in particular, more just a general best practice.
11:33 -!- itbegins
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11:34 < itbegins> sorry to be so late, caught up in traffic much worse
than I expected
11:34 < mmcgrath> stickster: correct.
11:34 < itbegins> I've got no log, anything on the CMS you'd like me
to answer?
11:34 < mmcgrath> Nothing against the zikula guys, just a policy we
have is all. We generally have a test infrastructure up.
11:34 < quaid> itbegins: no worries; there'll be an IRC log afterward;
ke4qqq just gave us a status of packaging and such for CMS
11:35 < mmcgrath> so we threw the test account system up so they can
auth against that until we're on the publictest servers, but
everything should be golden again when they change from authing
against admin.fp.o to authing against pt15 is all.
11:35 < mmcgrath> we've done this before in the past.
11:35 < mmcgrath> itbegins: did you get my messages to fedora-docs
about auth?
11:35 < ke4qqq> mmcgrath: will we have to revert the ssl cert
verification changes?
11:35 * ke4qqq assumes so
11:35 < ke4qqq> at least for client
11:35 < itbegins> mmcgrath: Just read them, that's fine and perfectly
understandable
11:36 < mmcgrath> ssl cert verification?
11:36 < mmcgrath> oh oh.
11:36 < mmcgrath> ke4qqq: yah, just for test though. Thats why they
were there :)
11:36 < ke4qqq> ok - shouldn't be a problem
11:37 < mmcgrath> itbegins: kew, I'm around all afternoon if you need
help with the account system. The one at publictest15 we can do
whatever you want to with as far as creating and removing users
and test groups. go nuts!
11:37 < mmcgrath> :)
11:37 < ke4qqq> should be fun to play with regardless
11:37 < itbegins> mmcgrath: I've pretty much got it working, the only
thing I think remains is syncing with FAS groups. I plan to do
that by creating groups with the same name in the CMS and just
syncing on login
11:37 < mmcgrath> cool
11:38 < itbegins> There's also a fallback to the normal Zikula auth
should FAS crash for any reason
11:38 < mmcgrath> itbegins: after the meeting come ping me in
#fedora-admin and I'll make sure the group and your test account
are all setup properly.
11:39 < itbegins> mmcgrath: Ok, thanks. I'd also like that chat about
php config/security
11:39 < mmcgrath> sure thing
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11:39 < itbegins> Anything else people want to know about the CMS?
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11:41 < quaid> ok, we can move on then
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#fedora-meeting
11:42 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg ::
Relnotes update
11:42 < quaid> jjmcd who cannot see ... have anything to add?
11:42 < jjmcd> No, sounds good to me
11:42 * quaid knows Alpha notes are out, ryanlerch was looking at
converting to DocBook but don't know if he wanted to follow through
with publishing them
11:43 * ke4qqq thought he had publicanized them already
11:43 < jjmcd> ryanlerch would like to do a routine wiki->DocBook
translation
11:43 < quaid> sure
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11:43 < quaid> but he just ran in to the very reason we stopped :)
11:43 < ke4qqq> which is?
11:43 < quaid> it's "done" but not published
11:43 < ke4qqq> ahhh ok
11:43 < quaid> is it in git?
11:43 < quaid> can I go publish it right now?
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11:44 < quaid> cf. the wiki which is there, done, published, let's
move on-able
11:44 < quaid> we all just need to be aware that each of these does
add complexity
11:45 < stickster> quaid: So what you're saying...
11:45 * jjmcd sees some regression test value in a routine build,
esp. if automated
11:45 < stickster> is that we can publish on the wiki instantly,
but...
11:45 * stickster scratches head.
11:45 < quaid> cannot yet on docs.fp.org, yes
11:46 < stickster> Ah, right.
11:46 < stickster> So we can't just publish the Publican output HTML
on docs.fedoraproject.org.
11:46 < stickster> Because... style sheets will be wrong?
11:46 < quaid> I was more drawing the lines between the dots to
explain what wasn't so obvious to people, i.e., why we had moved to
the wiki for Alpha/Beta notes in the past.
11:46 < stickster> Or is it because we're still converting things to
PHP and stuff gets stripped in the back and forth?
11:46 < quaid> we can just publish them
11:47 < quaid> sorry, I'm not being obvious, am I?
11:47 < itbegins> stickster: Part of the stuff I'm getting done for
the CMS is a pull-from-source-and-publish bash script
11:47 < stickster> quaid: No, and we should be.
11:47 < quaid> until the desire to Publicanize them came about, the
task was done.
11:47 < itbegins> stickster: Which you'll be able to access through
the CMS admin section.
11:47 < quaid> once that desire took hold, the task was undone and we
still don't have notes published for Alpha.
11:47 < quaid> nor a method for e.g. Jesse to add last minute
information and not have to wait 24 hours for all the people and
pieces to align.
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11:48 < jjmcd> I gotta admit, I don't see the value for alpha
11:48 < stickster> Ah, there's the rub. If there's no change freeze in
place significantly before release day, this gets almost impossible
for someone.
11:48 < quaid> I get that we like the idea of prettier notes, but I
think it's too late for Alpha, maybe do it for Beta.
11:49 < jjmcd> But I see enormous value in a routine, automatic
DocBook version of what is currently in the wiki, so that when we
finally do make the published version, there are no surprises.
11:49 < stickster> quaid: Then I would say we should add a task to the
Docs schedule which is a one-sheet content freeze.
11:49 < quaid> but I'm not the hammer no more to say, "Forget about
it," and I don't want to be discouraging where I see challenges due
to myopia.
11:49 < stickster> (as well as a conversion and publication task for
the Beta relnotes one-sheet)
11:50 < stickster> Sparks should probably address this, then.
11:50 < quaid> well ... if the release notes team thinks
Publican-based notes are more important than up-to-date information
and ease of publishing, then yes, they should do that.
11:50 < quaid> at some point, those converge and isn't an either/or
anymore
11:50 < quaid> until then ... one has to reign.
11:50 < stickster> quaid: Just to be clear, I recall why we wanted to
do this only for Preview and Final.
11:51 < quaid> yeah, we'll leave this for ryan and sparks to hash out.
11:51 < jjmcd> Right answer
11:51 < quaid> stickster: yeah, I know :)
11:51 < stickster> But having it out on the table openly is important
so the new folks can weigh it too.
11:52 < jjmcd> I think ryanlerch envisions wiki->DocBook on the
crontab, and if he can actually do that I think its great
11:52 < jjmcd> but for the one pagers, I personally don't see the
point
11:52 < quaid> stickster: yeah, was trying to do that yesterday but
didn't get there I reckon.
11:52 < quaid> ok, I've noted it in the summary
11:53 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg ::
Installation Guide status
11:53 < quaid> ke4qqq: have you begun to think about this?
11:53 < ke4qqq> ooh, me again
11:53 -!- cassmodiah [n=cass@fedora/cassmodiah] has joined
#fedora-meeting
11:53 < ke4qqq> yes - and I am delinquent in seeking help
11:53 < quaid> we can talk with jlaska/adamw about IG testing again
11:53 < ke4qqq> I need to put a call out for writers
11:54 < ke4qqq> it looks like eawest may not be able to join us this
time since she is rapidly becoming great with child
11:54 < stickster> I always liked the term "gravid"
11:54 < ke4qqq> so I need to find an editor as well.
11:55 < ke4qqq> that or I'll be writing a lot and begging one of you
to edit
11:55 < ke4qqq> oh, gravid is a great term
11:55 < ke4qqq> but we have a week or two to start writing
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11:56 < ke4qqq> I did change the owner in the owners list so stickster
doesn't get besieged with tickets
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11:56 < quaid> yay
11:56 < stickster> w00t
11:57 < ke4qqq> I almost did the same for danielsmw and the ug, but
wanted to make sure he had a bz account first
11:57 < quaid> ke4qqq: I'll be floating a bit more this time, so I'll
be able to backfill.
11:57 * stickster notes mmcgrath looking for group name info
on-list. Who's on the hook for that?
11:57 < ke4qqq> cool
11:57 < ke4qqq> we provided it in channel
11:57 < stickster> Oh sweet, I'm behind. That's always good.
11:58 < stickster> It means things are moving on well without me and I
can, y'know, take a nap instead.
11:58 < ke4qqq> that's what fearless project leaders are supposed to
do, no?
11:58 < stickster> That and eat peeled grapes, exactly.
11:58 < jjmcd> If you were napping then you wouldnt have anything to
tweet about
11:58 -!- k0k [n=k0k@fedora/k0k] has quit ["Saliendo"]
11:58 < stickster> At least, that's what I keep telling my wife.
11:59 < quaid> ok, we are about out of time
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11:59 < quaid> we'll do meeting time change on list
11:59 < quaid> the other guides ... well, how about discuss those on
list, too
11:59 < quaid> anthing else in the waning minute?
11:59 * quaid moving so fast he's levng ltrs behnd
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12:00 * stickster +1
12:00 * stickster then moves to adjourn
12:00 < quaid> rock on
12:00 * quaid counts
12:00 < quaid> 5
12:00 < quaid> 4
12:00 < quaid> 3
12:00 < quaid> 2
12:00 < quaid> 1
12:00 < quaid> </meeting>
--
Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener
http://quaid.fedorapeople.org
AD0E0C41