jwf's meeting titled "State of Fedora - 2017 Edition" ended in #fedora-meeting-4

================================================= #fedora-meeting-4: State of Fedora - 2017 Edition ================================================= Meeting started by jwf at 12:54:48 UTC. The full logs are available at https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-4/2017-08-29/flock2017.2... . Meeting summary --------------- * Introduction (jwf, 12:54:52) * Presented by Fedora Project Leader, mattdm (jwf, 12:54:54) * Looking back on last few releases (jwf, 12:54:56) * Good PR on last few releases (jwf, 12:55:00) * Continuing trends for last few releases from F25 - F26 (jwf, 12:55:08) * Not natural state of Fedora that everything is awesome - done a lot of hard work to make it happen (jwf, 12:55:44) * Mirror statistics (jwf, 12:55:57) * Fedora update server connections (daily by IP) (jwf, 12:56:05) * Many caveats, but good for comparing release to release even if not completely representative (jwf, 12:56:19) * Steady growth since F20, with F25 very high on charts, and as of this last week, F26 just crossed over the F25 update server connections (jwf, 12:56:50) * 40 days for this to happen, record for Fedora upgrades (jwf, 12:57:01) * Disclaimer, again: We don't do invasive tracking so these metrics are very approximate and tough to draw decisive conclusions from this data (jwf, 12:57:37) * Why are we doing crazy things this time around? (jwf, 12:59:26) * Longer release cycles not to make longer release times only, lot of new type of work going into releases (jwf, 12:59:45) * === Geologic Eras of Fedora === (jwf, 12:59:55) * F19-F15: Numbers went down, in wrong direction; many new changes in OS (jwf, 13:00:19) * systemd, GNOME3, DNF, anaconda rewrite, etc. (jwf, 13:00:33) * Fedora.next: Helped make some of the things that made Fedora as awesome as it is today; numbers indicate growth starting from that time or so (jwf, 13:00:58) * 32bit systems: Around F20/F21, numbers dipped and instead of upgrading, just went away; only have observational data (jwf, 13:01:41) * Last year: Neither growth or decline, just flat… concerning? (jwf, 13:02:03) * Fedora Mirror + Connectivity Checks (jwf, 13:02:56) * Different type of metric: hotspot check-ins; every five minutes, make check to make sure they're not behind a captive portal where you need to log in with a public hotspot; hits specific URL on Fedora servers; we count the number of times people hit that (jwf, 13:03:37) * Not form of tracking; we just see people hitting that URL (jwf, 13:03:47) * Roughly ~500,000 systems every day (jwf, 13:04:50) * Given that laptops might be on everyday; servers don't do this; not every spin will or people might have changed it / turned it off; so there are caveats again (jwf, 13:04:56) * StackOverflow survey: ~20% developers using Linux as primary OS for development (jwf, 13:05:14) * We reached a plateau; we should be growing to have the impact we want to have; maybe fires necessary to continue growth instead of flatline we're at now, even if it's a current record? Want to continue trends, not just hold line (jwf, 13:06:09) * The innovator adoption curve (jwf, 13:06:28) * Innovators => Early Adopters < > Early Majority => Late Majority => Laggards / Long Tail (jwf, 13:07:03) * Fedora lives in the Innovators / Early Adopters space (jwf, 13:07:22) * Fedora isn't just the bleeding edge (let's cross that off the list of ways we describe Fedora) (jwf, 13:07:38) * We don't want to be too far ahead because we want people to actually use Fedora; we want people to use it in their life, we want to be leading, but not totally bleeding (jwf, 13:07:56) * Can't say: "We invented Fedora" and 14 years later, doing the same thing (jwf, 13:08:29) * Have to innovate to stay relevant (jwf, 13:08:35) * See: Raspbian, CoreOS Container Linux, Solus, ArchLinux (really bleeding edge with awesome docs), lots and lots of change going on in the Linux desktop right now (jwf, 13:09:02) * Pushing the innovation curve for things we need to keep up with (jwf, 13:09:09) * Lot of people use Fedora because our downstreams too slow: trade-offs about RHEL / CentOS; need newer versions to do things (jwf, 13:09:38) * Red Hat tries to solve this problem with software collections with newer things; so, tl;dr: we can't say we're special just because we package things faster (jwf, 13:10:06) * How can we scale this change up? (jwf, 13:11:14) * Using infrastructure that was meant for lower thousands of packages but we have 17,000+ packages (jwf, 13:11:31) * Our "Fedora machine" isn't always keeping up with some of the change that we're growing with (jwf, 13:12:01) * Need to find ways to automate what we're doing with Fedora (jwf, 13:12:08) * Big, awesome changes that will get us to where we need to go to keep growing Fedora (jwf, 13:12:19) * "Why do we keep blowing things up when we have infra that does what we need for Rust?" Example of this is that it's our baseline, Rust upstream not super interested in packages, other things we need to do to keep up (jwf, 13:12:57) * What's happening at Flock on these things this year? (jwf, 13:13:06) * === Project Atomic === (jwf, 13:13:10) * Every change is tested as a light QA environment (jwf, 13:13:23) * Generally testing will happen with basic pass/fail (jwf, 13:13:40) * Continuous integration: Every change is run through robotic, automatic testing and if it breaks something, you're told about it right away, and bad changes are rejected (jwf, 13:14:08) * "Sorry, pls fix before pushing to Fedora thx" (jwf, 13:14:16) * What we have now with Atomic: (1) Build; (2) Test; (3) Release; (4) Present (jwf, 13:14:49) * WhatWeHaveNow.jpg (see slides for pretty graphs) (jwf, 13:15:04) * Atomic_Host_CI_CD_diagram.png (see slides for pretty graphs) (jwf, 13:15:27) * tl;dr: More automation and help us move things faster and scale up because we're working together with the robots instead of fighting them (jwf, 13:15:53) * === Modularity === (jwf, 13:16:00) * Taking comps groups and making them super-comps groups (jwf, 13:16:13) * example: Not just install a web server, but install a web server environment; could install in different environments and builds in different platforms (jwf, 13:16:43) * Modularity_pipeline.png (see slides for pretty graphs) (jwf, 13:16:57) * Working on infrastructure to automate creation and testing of modules (jwf, 13:17:11) * EPEL / Fedors OS update server connections (jwf, 13:17:23) * Earlier, said half a million people use Fedora, but not limit of our impact (jwf, 13:17:33) * EPEL: Extra Packages for Enterprise Linux; things we take and package for RHEL / CentOS and make available for those (jwf, 13:17:49) * Started exceeding popularity of Fedora connections and is off the charts, literally; somewhere around 1250k connections (daily????) (jwf, 13:18:16) * 10 year commitments for packaging (oof); modularity helps make packages available for audience and people who need them without making ten year commitments to packaging and with Fedora maintenance (jwf, 13:19:02) * Have thing you want moving fast at the speed you need it (jwf, 13:19:16) * Remember CentOS and RHEL are downstream, which is also including part of our impact; but we still want to grow Fedora (jwf, 13:20:01) * Proposal: Ambassadors and Fedora strategy (jwf, 13:20:10) * Proposal for how we spend Fedora money and efforts in where we show Fedora to the world (jwf, 13:20:40) * Traditionally, go to Linux confs / shows, talk with people, which is good… but impact is not gigantic (jwf, 13:20:57) * At Linux confs, people know what Fedora is, and people usually pretty set in their ways (jwf, 13:21:23) * Would like people to focus on new things this year and help make a difference on the future of Fedora (jwf, 13:21:34) * Council asked this before, but people asked what we should promote and do; thus, proposal (jwf, 13:21:53) * When we want to spend money on Fedora events, we want to spend money directly related to Fedora objectives and mission statement (jwf, 13:22:26) * Objective leads: Identified area that we think is important for Fedora, lead helps drives forward efforts on the initiative (jwf, 13:22:52) * Want to empower people working on the initiatives with the support they need (jwf, 13:23:03) * We should do things that directly support these objectives (jwf, 13:23:17) * Go to automation confs! Go to where people using slow-moving distros are with modularity! Go to container / container orchestration confs! Go to developer conferences and tell people why they should use Fedora instead of Linux conferences. (jwf, 13:24:01) * Recap: What's the tl;dr? (jwf, 13:25:03) * We've been growing for a while, but we're at a plateau; let's set (good) fires to keep growing and continue the past trends of the last few releases and break the plateau (jwf, 13:25:35) * Fedora contributor statistics (jwf, 13:26:09) * Things counted: Editing wiki pages, getting badges, pushing packages, etc. (jwf, 13:26:22) * Not counted: Going to events, organizing Flock, writing for Fedora Magazine, etc. (jwf, 13:26:39) * Counted as active: Quarter of the weeks in the year (jwf, 13:27:06) * Divided into old school / intermediate / new contributors / all contributors including less active (jwf, 13:27:25) * 250 people every week who are showing up working on Fedora; lots of people! (jwf, 13:27:41) * Intermediate / new users: First active just this year but at least 13 weeks this year (jwf, 13:27:53) * Good influx of new contributors and flow into intermediate contributors (jwf, 13:28:03) * We'd like to see this graph going up; probably can't handle **exponential growth**, but an upward growth would be nice to see and would be maintainable (jwf, 13:29:15) * Everything is on fire? (jwf, 13:29:35) * Yeah, but that's how it should be. We just want the fires to be in a good way (jwf, 13:29:47) * This Flock is focused on doing things; let's find things this Flock that are on fire in a bad way and work on changing the direction there (jwf, 13:30:07) * Figure out where problems are, get them solved (jwf, 13:30:13) * Explore automation to make next generation of Fedora be awesome (jwf, 13:30:22) * Q&A (jwf, 13:30:37) * Q: "With metadata for updates, if you use containers, what is counted?" (jwf, 13:31:10) * A: If you use DNF to upgrade system, there's metadata that describes updates available; gigantic blob of 100s of MBs of data; modularity has its own data; if have small container like a web server, your metadata is way bigger than container itself, which is crazy; but I don't know what we're doing with that, DNF team might understand (jwf, 13:32:04) * Q, clarification: Hitting mirrors, are containers hitting mirrors more often and influencing stats? (jwf, 13:32:24) * A: Since coming from single IP address, only counted once, just like if you `sudo dnf upgrade`, only counted once; but maybe we should?!? (jwf, 13:33:09) * Q: Do we have a world map of users from IP data? (jwf, 13:36:10) * A: No, and also a dinosaur (myth) of this data; with low-cost broadband connections are underrepresented in our data, so might be lots of Fedora in some regions of world, but a world map would not represent this well (jwf, 13:36:56) Meeting ended at 13:48:10 UTC. 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