Aoife Moloney wrote:
Switch the default desktop experience for Workstation to KDE Plasma. The GNOME desktop is moved to a separate spin / edition, retaining release-blocking status.
It is funny that the KDE SIG is proposing that now. I have a sense of déjà- vu: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/KDE_Plasma_Desktop_by_default
Back then, the KDE SIG was NOT willing to support my proposal (even though the timing would have been ideal, given that GNOME was badly hit at the time by the GNOME 3 transition and users disappointed by the radical cuts in customizability). Now they are refloating it as their own, without even citing my original proposal.
Kevin Kofler
On Tue, 2024-04-02 at 21:05 +0200, Kevin Kofler via devel wrote:
Aoife Moloney wrote:
Switch the default desktop experience for Workstation to KDE Plasma. The GNOME desktop is moved to a separate spin / edition, retaining release-blocking status.
It is funny that the KDE SIG is proposing that now. I have a sense of déjà- vu: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/KDE_Plasma_Desktop_by_default
Back then, the KDE SIG was NOT willing to support my proposal (even though the timing would have been ideal, given that GNOME was badly hit at the time by the GNOME 3 transition and users disappointed by the radical cuts in customizability). Now they are refloating it as their own, without even citing my original proposal.
Kevin, I know you and I have been around forever and 2011 feels like yesterday, but it was really quite a long time ago.
Some of the people involved in the proposal didn't even use Fedora in 2011. Heck, there are probably people using Fedora who weren't *born* in 2011.
If you compare the KDE SIG member list from May 2011 (approx. time of your old proposal) and the current one, the only people who appear on both lists are Rex Dieter and Than Ngo, neither of whom is an owner of this Change proposal.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=SIGs/KDE&oldid=239023
Perhaps something like the "Everything.iso" could be top-leveled on the website, to include Workstation, KDE, et al, in their full "Everything.iso" details. That will let me decide, beforehand, what it is that I want to download. Keep the individual iso-webpage relationship simple, referring to the suggested new top-level website pages.
Leslie Satenstein
On Tuesday, April 2, 2024 at 03:37:30 p.m. EDT, Adam Williamson adamwill@fedoraproject.org wrote:
On Tue, 2024-04-02 at 21:05 +0200, Kevin Kofler via devel wrote:
Aoife Moloney wrote:
Switch the default desktop experience for Workstation to KDE Plasma. The GNOME desktop is moved to a separate spin / edition, retaining release-blocking status.
It is funny that the KDE SIG is proposing that now. I have a sense of déjà- vu: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/KDE_Plasma_Desktop_by_default
Back then, the KDE SIG was NOT willing to support my proposal (even though the timing would have been ideal, given that GNOME was badly hit at the time by the GNOME 3 transition and users disappointed by the radical cuts in customizability). Now they are refloating it as their own, without even citing my original proposal.
Kevin, I know you and I have been around forever and 2011 feels like yesterday, but it was really quite a long time ago.
Some of the people involved in the proposal didn't even use Fedora in 2011. Heck, there are probably people using Fedora who weren't *born* in 2011.
If you compare the KDE SIG member list from May 2011 (approx. time of your old proposal) and the current one, the only people who appear on both lists are Rex Dieter and Than Ngo, neither of whom is an owner of this Change proposal.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=SIGs/KDE&oldid=239023
Putting aside that i heard from Neal Gompa that anaconda cannot accommodate a « multi-flavor » media, can you imagine how big that iso would be? Forget 4gb, it’d probably be closer to 20gb!
On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 09:49 Leslie Satenstein via devel < devel@lists.fedoraproject.org> wrote:
Perhaps something like the "Everything.iso" could be top-leveled on the website, to include Workstation, KDE, *et al,* in their full "Everything.iso" details. That will let me decide, beforehand, what it is that I want to download.
Keep the individual iso-webpage relationship simple, referring to the suggested new top-level website pages.
Leslie Satenstein
On Tuesday, April 2, 2024 at 03:37:30 p.m. EDT, Adam Williamson < adamwill@fedoraproject.org> wrote:
On Tue, 2024-04-02 at 21:05 +0200, Kevin Kofler via devel wrote:
Aoife Moloney wrote:
Switch the default desktop experience for Workstation to KDE Plasma. The GNOME desktop is moved to a separate spin / edition, retaining release-blocking status.
It is funny that the KDE SIG is proposing that now. I have a sense of
déjà-
vu: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/KDE_Plasma_Desktop_by_default
Back then, the KDE SIG was NOT willing to support my proposal (even
though
the timing would have been ideal, given that GNOME was badly hit at the
time
by the GNOME 3 transition and users disappointed by the radical cuts in customizability). Now they are refloating it as their own, without even citing my original proposal.
Kevin, I know you and I have been around forever and 2011 feels like yesterday, but it was really quite a long time ago.
Some of the people involved in the proposal didn't even use Fedora in 2011. Heck, there are probably people using Fedora who weren't *born* in 2011.
If you compare the KDE SIG member list from May 2011 (approx. time of your old proposal) and the current one, the only people who appear on both lists are Rex Dieter and Than Ngo, neither of whom is an owner of this Change proposal.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=SIGs/KDE&oldid=239023 -- Adam Williamson (he/him/his) Fedora QA Fedora Chat: @adamwill:fedora.im | Mastodon: @adamw@fosstodon.org https://www.happyassassin.net
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Steve Cossette wrote:
Putting aside that i heard from Neal Gompa that anaconda cannot accommodate a « multi-flavor » media, can you imagine how big that iso would be? Forget 4gb, it’d probably be closer to 20gb!
We used to have multiboot live images that let you pick the live image flavor to boot and then install. At one point (for one or two, maybe three, releases only, then came "Fedora.next" and the Ambassadors were pressured to hand out only "Workstation"), we even handed DVDs with those (yes, in those good old days, a multiboot live image still fit on a DVD… then bloat happened!) out at events. (I even did a custom one once for the Vienna event in May 2015, which dual-booted the latest Fedora 21 KDE live-respin with Plasma 4 and the Fedora 22 Beta KDE live with Plasma 5. I did not put Workstation on those because we had tons of pressed Fedora 21 Workstation DVDs anyway.) Unfortunately, the scripts that generated those were unable to keep up with all the complications caused by UEFI and so-called "Secure Boot". (They used to work back when everything still booted in legacy BIOS mode.) So some engineering effort will probably be needed, and a lot of testing on different hardware will definitely be needed, to make the multiboot generator work (reliably) again.
Kevin Kofler
Hi Adam, I lived through the 2011 period, and at that time the number of people available for KDE software support was insufficient. In an earlier response I suggested that a single website is where we should be focusing more info about the various isos.
We don't need a separate set of web pages per iso, as it is a disadvange. A user could browse the one Fedora site and select the ISO that suits his needs.
And by the way, I started with Fedora 0.1, when the printed computer magazines had CDs with Fedora included. (grin)
Yeah, I remember the big whoo-haaa when we went from 800meg CDs to 2048meg DVDS.
Leslie Satenstein Grandpa, aged 83.
On Tuesday, April 2, 2024 at 03:37:30 p.m. EDT, Adam Williamson adamwill@fedoraproject.org wrote:
On Tue, 2024-04-02 at 21:05 +0200, Kevin Kofler via devel wrote:
Aoife Moloney wrote:
Switch the default desktop experience for Workstation to KDE Plasma. The GNOME desktop is moved to a separate spin / edition, retaining release-blocking status.
It is funny that the KDE SIG is proposing that now. I have a sense of déjà- vu: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/KDE_Plasma_Desktop_by_default
Back then, the KDE SIG was NOT willing to support my proposal (even though the timing would have been ideal, given that GNOME was badly hit at the time by the GNOME 3 transition and users disappointed by the radical cuts in customizability). Now they are refloating it as their own, without even citing my original proposal.
Kevin, I know you and I have been around forever and 2011 feels like yesterday, but it was really quite a long time ago.
Some of the people involved in the proposal didn't even use Fedora in 2011. Heck, there are probably people using Fedora who weren't *born* in 2011.
If you compare the KDE SIG member list from May 2011 (approx. time of your old proposal) and the current one, the only people who appear on both lists are Rex Dieter and Than Ngo, neither of whom is an owner of this Change proposal.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=SIGs/KDE&oldid=239023
-
Adam Williamson -
Kevin Kofler -
Leslie Satenstein -
Steve Cossette