Anne Wilson wrote:
There is a lot of FUD and general mistrust of PA. It seems to me that it would help a great deal if someone would write a short statement about what PA is and how it should work. If there is known readable references, they would help too, as would noting any known work-arounds for problem.
It would be a great help to those of us who try to give user support. I'd even put it on my own web space and direct folk to it, if that would help.
There's a lot of good information on the PulseAudio project pages themselves:
http://www.pulseaudio.org/wiki/AboutPulseAudio http://www.pulseaudio.org/wiki/FirstSteps http://www.pulseaudio.org/wiki/PerfectSetup http://www.pulseaudio.org/wiki/FAQ
Maybe someone would be interested in summarising some of this and adding Fedora-specifics on the Fedora wiki to make it a bit less intimidating for novice users?
Regards, Bryn.
2008/11/27 Bryn M. Reeves bmr@redhat.com:
Anne Wilson wrote:
There is a lot of FUD and general mistrust of PA. It seems to me that it would help a great deal if someone would write a short statement about what PA is and how it should work. If there is known readable references, they would help too, as would noting any known work-arounds for problem.
It would be a great help to those of us who try to give user support. I'd even put it on my own web space and direct folk to it, if that would help.
There's a lot of good information on the PulseAudio project pages themselves:
http://www.pulseaudio.org/wiki/AboutPulseAudio http://www.pulseaudio.org/wiki/FirstSteps http://www.pulseaudio.org/wiki/PerfectSetup http://www.pulseaudio.org/wiki/FAQ
Maybe someone would be interested in summarising some of this and adding Fedora-specifics on the Fedora wiki to make it a bit less intimidating for novice users?
My advice to all novices is to remove pulseaudio (as yet, it's still possible to remove almost completely this useless and buggy component). I wonder how it was decided (and whom) to push in as a default soundsystem?
Most amazing feature of F-10 is "glitch-free sound with PulseAudio". Just think about - it's 2008 (almost 2009), and Fedora finally promises that its default soundserver would sometimes works.
The most obscure part of PulseAudio story (except numerous "help! pulseaudio doesn't work for me" posts in various russian linux forums) is how it was chosen among other stable and mature alternatives. I really don't understant it.
We got some soundservers already - namely, JACK, NAS, MAS (which was developed under Freedesktop umbrella) and even ALSA native interface, but someone choose solution which (even after long period of development) still not ready for daily work and does not provide any significant benefit to user even in long-term perspective.
On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 8:33 AM, Peter Lemenkov lemenkov@gmail.com wrote:
2008/11/27 Bryn M. Reeves bmr@redhat.com:
Anne Wilson wrote:
There is a lot of FUD and general mistrust of PA. It seems to me that
it
would help a great deal if someone would write a short statement about
what
PA is and how it should work. If there is known readable references,
they
would help too, as would noting any known work-arounds for problem.
It would be a great help to those of us who try to give user support.
I'd
even put it on my own web space and direct folk to it, if that would
help.
There's a lot of good information on the PulseAudio project pages themselves:
http://www.pulseaudio.org/wiki/AboutPulseAudio http://www.pulseaudio.org/wiki/FirstSteps http://www.pulseaudio.org/wiki/PerfectSetup http://www.pulseaudio.org/wiki/FAQ
Maybe someone would be interested in summarising some of this and adding Fedora-specifics on the Fedora wiki to make it a bit less intimidating
for
novice users?
My advice to all novices is to remove pulseaudio (as yet, it's still possible to remove almost completely this useless and buggy component). I wonder how it was decided (and whom) to push in as a default soundsystem?
Most amazing feature of F-10 is "glitch-free sound with PulseAudio". Just think about - it's 2008 (almost 2009), and Fedora finally promises that its default soundserver would sometimes works.
The most obscure part of PulseAudio story (except numerous "help! pulseaudio doesn't work for me" posts in various russian linux forums) is how it was chosen among other stable and mature alternatives. I really don't understant it.
We got some soundservers already - namely, JACK, NAS, MAS (which was developed under Freedesktop umbrella) and even ALSA native interface, but someone choose solution which (even after long period of development) still not ready for daily work and does not provide any significant benefit to user even in long-term perspective.
I disagree. I am running Fedora 10 installed on a 8GB USB stick, and my two sound cards were detected and can be controlled via pulse audio. Speakers connected to the onboard soundcard and headphones to an additional PCI card.
Literally, zero work. mplayer, vlc, mpg123, gnormalize, everything working. I can switch the sound from one card to the other on the fly.
I must confess I know very little about alsa, but this time I did not have to do anything at all. modprobe.conf is empty and no .asoundrc
In fact, pulseaudio is one of the components that never gave any trouble. On the other hand, things like compiz are a nightmare to configure, but a lot of people seem to like it.
Everything depends on the referencial ...
2008/11/28, Paulo Cavalcanti promac@gmail.com:
I disagree. I am running Fedora 10 installed on a 8GB USB stick, and my two sound cards were detected and can be controlled via pulse audio. Speakers connected to the onboard soundcard and headphones to an additional PCI card.
That definitely looks like the special case. I still don't see why it should be the default audio server for the majority of users.
On Thu, Nov 27, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Peter Lemenkov lemenkov@gmail.com wrote:
We got some soundservers already - namely, JACK, NAS, MAS (which was developed under Freedesktop umbrella) and even ALSA native interface, but someone choose solution which (even after long period of development) still not ready for daily work and does not provide any significant benefit to user even in long-term perspective.
Per stream/app volume control, audio device hotplug, networked sound, combined output on multiple soundcards, moving streams between devices,....
2008/11/28, drago01 drago01@gmail.com:
Per stream/app volume control, audio device hotplug, networked sound, combined output on multiple soundcards, moving streams between devices,....
No need to repeat again and again those advertisments.
And, again - that's not a majority of use cases. If someone would play in funny games with routing mediastreams back and forth, he should use its own distro, not a community's one.
BTW you should learn someting about those stable and mature soundservers before replying to me - networked sound and combined output were already implemented years ago.
On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 4:28 PM, Peter Lemenkov lemenkov@gmail.com wrote:
2008/11/28, drago01 drago01@gmail.com:
Per stream/app volume control, audio device hotplug, networked sound, combined output on multiple soundcards, moving streams between devices,....
No need to repeat again and again those advertisments.
And, again - that's not a majority of use cases. If someone would play in funny games with routing mediastreams back and forth, he should use its own distro, not a community's one.
For example device hotplug is something that people expect from a modern operating system.
BTW you should learn someting about those stable and mature soundservers before replying to me - networked sound and combined output were already implemented years ago.
they support a subset of what pa is doing besides they have a different goal than pa (pa isn't "just another sound server")
btw you are trying to solve the problem in the wrong way: "app A has bugs, don't ship it" vs "app A has bugs, find the causes and fix them"
2008/11/28, drago01 drago01@gmail.com:
For example device hotplug is something that people expect from a modern operating system.
Modern operating system is sometimes installed on modern hardware platform, that means that there is no need in hotplugging of devices which functionality is already included in 99% of cases (except the case with bluetooth audio - bluetooth phone sets is the different case). Yes, I repeat - PA need in a very little amount of cases (I mean - you should use different distro).
they support a subset of what pa is doing besides they have a different goal than pa (pa isn't "just another sound server")
I still insist - you should learn more about already shipped and stable solutions.
btw you are trying to solve the problem in the wrong way: "app A has bugs, don't ship it" vs "app A has bugs, find the causes and fix them"
More than 5 years ago I've got a experience in deploying multimedia-server for multiroom systems, and I still remember something regarding this development area. Even in 2002 JACK already has a ability to combine different audio cards into one or split into many. Since then it receives the ability of networking sound.
From my PoV, there is no need to create something from the ground
(thus repeating numerous error, which already fixed many times) except the case then you're not the guy with NIH syndrome. More easiest way is to help to add some functionality to already existed mature project (btw JACK included in Fedora).
I believe is that Fedora may have great benefits from JACK as a defauld soundserver. Too sad, that Fedora heads decided to write something from scratch. I still wonder why (probably - it's another example of poor development management).
However its still not too late to drop this semi-working student's cheap stuff in favor of something more reliable.
On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 8:53 AM, Peter Lemenkov lemenkov@gmail.com wrote:
2008/11/28, drago01 drago01@gmail.com:
For example device hotplug is something that people expect from a modern operating system.
Modern operating system is sometimes installed on modern hardware platform, that means that there is no need in hotplugging of devices which functionality is already included in 99% of cases (except the case with bluetooth audio - bluetooth phone sets is the different case). Yes, I repeat - PA need in a very little amount of cases (I mean - you should use different distro).
err what? people that want to use bluetooth audio devices should just use another distro? sorry but I disagree here, we can't tell people "your hardware is no longer supported by fedora, go use a different distro"
On 2008-11-29, 07:53 GMT, Peter Lemenkov wrote:
I believe is that Fedora may have great benefits from JACK as a defauld soundserver. Too sad, that Fedora heads decided to write something from scratch. I still wonder why (probably - it's another example of poor development management).
What about reading about the reasons mezcalero many times provided in many fora instead of spreading the FUD?
Matěj
On 2008-11-28, 15:28 GMT, Peter Lemenkov wrote:
And, again - that's not a majority of use cases. If someone would play in funny games with routing mediastreams back and forth, he should use its own distro, not a community's one.
Actually, I do switch between headphones and speakers all the time and I found it pretty useful.
Matěj
On Friday, 28 November 2008 at 19:52, Matej Cepl wrote:
On 2008-11-28, 15:28 GMT, Peter Lemenkov wrote:
And, again - that's not a majority of use cases. If someone would play in funny games with routing mediastreams back and forth, he should use its own distro, not a community's one.
Actually, I do switch between headphones and speakers all the time and I found it pretty useful.
I don't know about your setup, but both my stereo and my laptop disable the speakers when I plug in the headphones. I don't know where PulseAudio comes in here.
Regards, R.
On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 9:44 PM, Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski dominik@greysector.net wrote:
On Friday, 28 November 2008 at 19:52, Matej Cepl wrote:
On 2008-11-28, 15:28 GMT, Peter Lemenkov wrote:
And, again - that's not a majority of use cases. If someone would play in funny games with routing mediastreams back and forth, he should use its own distro, not a community's one.
Actually, I do switch between headphones and speakers all the time and I found it pretty useful.
I don't know about your setup, but both my stereo and my laptop disable the speakers when I plug in the headphones. I don't know where PulseAudio comes in here.
if you are using usb or bluetooth* headphones you need pa for hotplugging to work.
* should work but I never tested it, usb works fine
On Fri, Nov 28, 2008 at 6:44 PM, Dominik 'Rathann' Mierzejewski < dominik@greysector.net> wrote:
On Friday, 28 November 2008 at 19:52, Matej Cepl wrote:
On 2008-11-28, 15:28 GMT, Peter Lemenkov wrote:
And, again - that's not a majority of use cases. If someone would play in funny games with routing mediastreams back and forth, he should use its own distro, not a community's one.
Actually, I do switch between headphones and speakers all the time and I found it pretty useful.
I don't know about your setup, but both my stereo and my laptop disable the speakers when I plug in the headphones. I don't know where PulseAudio comes in here.
You need two sound cards.
2008/11/29, Paulo Cavalcanti promac@gmail.com:
Actually, I do switch between headphones and speakers all the time and I found it pretty useful.
I don't know about your setup, but both my stereo and my laptop disable the speakers when I plug in the headphones. I don't know where PulseAudio comes in here.
You need two sound cards.
That's not a prevailing configuration.
On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 10:55:06AM +0300, Peter Lemenkov wrote:
2008/11/29, Paulo Cavalcanti promac@gmail.com:
Actually, I do switch between headphones and speakers all the time and I found it pretty useful.
I don't know about your setup, but both my stereo and my laptop disable the speakers when I plug in the headphones. I don't know where PulseAudio comes in here.
You need two sound cards.
That's not a prevailing configuration.
It's pretty common. Any set of USB headphones are essentially their own separate sound card, and PA is great for being able to just plug them in and switch the sound over. USB headphones are not a rarity, even if you don't have any.
Ewan