On Wed, 17 Jul 2013, Chris Murphy wrote:
a. ntpd/ntpdate aren't installed by default with Fedora 19. I don't see the feature proposing this be changed.
That's a bug then. It is needed for DNSSEC.
b. A default installation of Fedora 18/19, has no means of updating the RTC correctly if it's off by more than 15 minutes; and 60 minutes with newer kernels. An RTC wrong by more than an hour, e.g. two months ago, if I have an internet connection chrony sets the system clock to the correct date/time.
It won't be able to do so when DNSSEC is enabled.
If I don't have an internet connection, I'm relegated to a system time based on the wrong RTC, which seems grossly broken to me.
Yes, and using at least the last good known timestamp from shutdown would be a plus.
d. This long bug, 816752, suggests, as a solution, installing ntpdate in order to set the RTC. So if ntpdate is being deprecated as part of the proposed feature, why is installing and using ntpdate being suggested as a fix for the lack of chrony-kernel RTC sync support? https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=816752#c75
What I learned today, you can read "ntpdate" as "ntpd -q -g -x"
e. Why isn't this functionality being added to chrony, rather than bouncing us back to ntpd?
Well, my f18 does not even have chrony installed. Did that change for f19? I don't see it at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/19/FeatureList
The time situation on Fedora makes me think the left hand and right hand are doing different things.
Well, we're discussing it now. So the ntpdate feature could just be renamed to "deal with time and no RTC properly"
Paul
Once upon a time, Paul Wouters paul@nohats.ca said:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013, Chris Murphy wrote:
a. ntpd/ntpdate aren't installed by default with Fedora 19. I don't see the feature proposing this be changed.
That's a bug then. It is needed for DNSSEC.
No, ntpd is not needed for DNSSEC. A correct clock is required, but ntpd is not the only solution. Fedora switched to chrony by default several releases ago.
Well, my f18 does not even have chrony installed. Did that change for f19? I don't see it at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/19/FeatureList
Then you must have done a non-standard install; chrony is in the Standard group in comps.
On 17/07/13 15:20, Chris Adams wrote:
Once upon a time, Paul Wouters paul@nohats.ca said:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013, Chris Murphy wrote:
a. ntpd/ntpdate aren't installed by default with Fedora 19. I don't see the feature proposing this be changed.
That's a bug then. It is needed for DNSSEC.
No, ntpd is not needed for DNSSEC. A correct clock is required, but ntpd is not the only solution. Fedora switched to chrony by default several releases ago.
In F16 in fact: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/ChronyDefaultNTP
Well, my f18 does not even have chrony installed. Did that change for f19? I don't see it at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/19/FeatureList
Then you must have done a non-standard install; chrony is in the Standard group in comps.
Note of course that anybody upgrading from before F16 may still be using ntpd unless they switched themselves, at least if you upgrade with yum. Not sure if preupgrade/fedup will have done the switch as part of an upgrade.
Tom
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013, Chris Adams wrote:
Once upon a time, Paul Wouters paul@nohats.ca said:
On Wed, 17 Jul 2013, Chris Murphy wrote:
a. ntpd/ntpdate aren't installed by default with Fedora 19. I don't see the feature proposing this be changed.
That's a bug then. It is needed for DNSSEC.
No, ntpd is not needed for DNSSEC. A correct clock is required, but ntpd is not the only solution. Fedora switched to chrony by default several releases ago.
Okay, so perhaps chrony should be extended to use a "saved clock" as a time source on boot if available, and save the time in a file regularly, if it does not do so already.
ObPetPeve: The complete chrony documentation is supplied in texinfo format.
Paul
On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 01:56:13PM -0400, Paul Wouters wrote:
Okay, so perhaps chrony should be extended to use a "saved clock" as a time source on boot if available, and save the time in a file regularly, if it does not do so already.
I'd say that should be a new separate service run on boot and shutdown. As we have learned in the other thread, the chronyd service can't even know if it's started for the first time after boot and should restore the time from the file, or was just restarted.
ObPetPeve: The complete chrony documentation is supplied in texinfo format.
Is texinfo no longer considered acceptable? The documentation is included also as plain text in /usr/share/doc/chrony-1.28/chrony.txt if you don't like the info format.