Summary/Minutes for today's FESCo meeting (2013-05-01)

=================================== #fedora-meeting: FESCO (2013-05-01) =================================== Meeting started by abadger1999 at 18:00:06 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2013-05-01/fesco.2013-05-... . Meeting summary --------------- * init process (abadger1999, 18:00:11) * #1110 systemd preset for ipmi (abadger1999, 18:02:28) * LINK: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/users/packages/aledvink?acls=owner (abadger1999, 18:06:56) * ACTION: abadger1999 to ask for clarification in the ticket (abadger1999, 18:13:40) * #1111 systemd preset for ipmievd (abadger1999, 18:14:11) * ACTION: abadger1999 will ask for clarification on this ticket similar to 1110 (abadger1999, 18:23:56) * Clarify release name guidelines - Explicitly list blacklisted characters (abadger1999, 18:24:00) * Update release name guidelines to explicitly blacklist | & ; ( ) < * Next week's chair (abadger1999, 18:27:07) * ACTION: jwb will chair nextweek's meeting (abadger1999, 18:29:19) * Open Floor (abadger1999, 18:29:27) Meeting ended at 18:46:25 UTC. Action Items ------------ * abadger1999 to ask for clarification in the ticket * abadger1999 will ask for clarification on this ticket similar to 1110 * jwb will chair nextweek's meeting Action Items, by person ----------------------- * abadger1999 * abadger1999 to ask for clarification in the ticket * abadger1999 will ask for clarification on this ticket similar to 1110 * jwb * jwb will chair nextweek's meeting * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * abadger1999 (43) * nirik (22) * jwb (20) * mitr (13) * sgallagh (12) * pjones (10) * zodbot (7) * suehle (3) * notting (3) * gholms (1) * mmaslano (0) * t8m (0) Meeting Log ------------------ 18:00:06 <abadger1999> #startmeeting FESCO (2013-05-01) 18:00:06 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed May 1 18:00:06 2013 UTC. The chair is abadger1999. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:00:06 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 18:00:08 <abadger1999> #meetingname fesco 18:00:08 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco' 18:00:09 <abadger1999> #chair abadger1999 jwb mitr mmaslano notting nirik pjones t8m sgallagh 18:00:09 <zodbot> Current chairs: abadger1999 jwb mitr mmaslano nirik notting pjones sgallagh t8m 18:00:11 <abadger1999> #topic init process 18:00:16 <pjones> morning, party people. 18:00:25 * notting is here 18:00:26 <jwb> hello 18:00:52 <mitr> Hello 18:00:56 <abadger1999> Good morning everyone, time for another fun and exciting fesco meeting :-) 18:01:08 <nirik> hello 18:01:13 <sgallagh> Ciao 18:01:55 <abadger1999> Well, that's seven, enough for quorum 18:02:26 <abadger1999> Pretty light schedule today: 18:02:28 <abadger1999> #topic #1110 systemd preset for ipmi 18:02:30 <abadger1999> .fesco 1110 18:02:31 <zodbot> abadger1999: #1110 (systemd preset for ipmi) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1110 18:04:31 * notting attempts to parse this. he wants to install his own preset file based on the presence of hardware? 18:04:38 <sgallagh> So I'm not sure why this is coming to FESCo 18:05:13 <sgallagh> I don't see any indication that he's approached the maintainers of OpenIPMI or systemd about this. 18:05:41 <nirik> .bug 728436 18:05:42 <zodbot> nirik: Access Denied - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=728436 18:05:45 <nirik> nice 18:05:53 <mitr> sgallagh: He is a maintainer of OpenIPMI 18:06:18 <mitr> the maintainer, even 18:06:26 <sgallagh> ok 18:06:56 <abadger1999> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/users/packages/aledvink?acls=owner 18:07:00 <sgallagh> I still don't quite understand what he's asking for, or what exception he's seeking. 18:07:11 <abadger1999> OpenIPMI, freeipmi, and ipmitool 18:07:33 <sgallagh> Is he basically just asking for permission to autostart a daemon? 18:08:51 <mitr> to load modules, or whatever http://pkgs.fedoraproject.org/cgit/OpenIPMI.git/tree/openipmi-helper does 18:09:17 <mitr> Isn't this covered by the first sentence in https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Starting_services_by_default as "up to individual maintainer" already? 18:10:13 <mitr> "Except this proposal violates ​https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/PackagePresets by taking back it's preset management" ... I have no idea what that means I'm afraid (and I didn't ask, my bad) 18:10:30 * nirik is also somewhat confused as to exactly what they want to do here. 18:11:38 <nirik> so, perhaps we should ask them more specifically what they wish? 18:11:53 <nirik> or, are they on irc anywhere? 18:12:47 <mitr> Today is a holiday in Czech republic, AFAICS he isn't online 18:12:53 <nirik> ok 18:13:05 <pjones> yeah, I think we just have to get him to explain further 18:13:23 <abadger1999> k. i'll ask him to clarify what he wants 18:13:25 <pjones> Possibly with a note that if none of us can figure out what he's asking, we're going to lean towards denying the request ;) 18:13:40 <abadger1999> #action abadger1999 to ask for clarification in the ticket 18:14:00 <nirik> perhaps ask for a diff of specific changes they want? 18:14:06 <abadger1999> <nod> 18:14:11 <abadger1999> #topic #1111 systemd preset for ipmievd 18:14:13 <abadger1999> .fesco 1111 18:14:14 <zodbot> abadger1999: #1111 (systemd preset for ipmievd) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1111 18:14:22 <abadger1999> Another request from the same maintainer. 18:15:07 <nirik> depends on the last ticket too 18:15:30 <abadger1999> Overall question -- are systemd presets supposed to be managed by packages? 18:15:46 <mitr> Per https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/PackagePresets it is centralized 18:15:48 <nirik> we never got too clear an answer. 18:15:53 <nirik> or at least I don't recall one 18:16:05 <abadger1999> I thought default enable/disable was managed a different way in packages and presets were for distro/spin level 18:16:17 <nirik> see https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/945 18:16:26 <mitr> (we didn't get any _useful_ results out of presets because the spin policy hasn't been written) 18:16:39 * nirik nods. 18:17:17 <mitr> abadger1999: The https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging:ScriptletSnippets?rd=Packaging/S... macros don't let packages specify enabled/disabled 18:18:16 <abadger1999> mitr: " Services can either be enabled or disabled by default. To determine which case your specific service falls into, please refer to FESCo's policy here: Starting_services_by_default." ? 18:18:25 <nirik> well, I thought the idea was central default then things like spins could ship their own 18:18:58 <gholms> nirik: Right, but we don't have a policy for spins that want to ship their own yet. 18:19:05 <mitr> Perhaps that both of the tickets should actualy be filed against systemd in bugzilla, but at least the #1110 is unclear enough that I'd rather wait for clarification 18:19:17 <mitr> abadger1999: See the paragraph starting "If your package includes one or more systemd units that need to be enabled by default on package installation, they need to be covered by the default Fedora preset policy." 18:19:17 <pjones> perhaps we should at least wait for the other thing to be clarified since this is clearly related 18:19:23 <pjones> mitr: exactly 18:19:34 <nirik> gholms: yep. 18:21:07 <abadger1999> mitr: ah I think I see what you're saying. 18:21:36 <abadger1999> so one thing I should say in the tickets is that packages do not add their own presets. 18:21:49 <abadger1999> they get placed into one ofthe existing presets 18:22:37 <abadger1999> and the maintainer might need to re-architect the way his autodetection works to make that possible. 18:23:26 <abadger1999> anyhow... sounds like this one can't be approved without further info either. 18:23:56 <abadger1999> #action abadger1999 will ask for clarification on this ticket similar to 1110 18:24:00 <abadger1999> #topic Clarify release name guidelines - Explicitly list blacklisted characters 18:24:07 <pjones> We meant: | & ; ( ) < > { } ' " # 18:24:15 <pjones> And we are deeply remorseful that the manual for the shell treats tokenization points and operators as the same thing. 18:24:40 <abadger1999> <nod> 18:24:42 * nirik nods. fine with me. typing this line is already more than I care about this topic. ;) 18:25:30 <abadger1999> Proposal: Update guideline to explicitly list out the bad characters: | & ; ( ) < > { } ' " # 18:25:32 <abadger1999> +1 18:25:35 <pjones> +1 18:25:36 <sgallagh> +1 18:25:42 <jwb> +1 18:25:59 <notting> +1 18:25:59 <nirik> +1 18:26:18 <abadger1999> That's 6, proposal passes. I'll update the page 18:26:59 <abadger1999> #info Update release name guidelines to explicitly blacklist | & ; ( ) < > { } ' " # passes (+1:6, 0:0, -1:0) 18:27:07 <abadger1999> #topic Next week's chair 18:27:13 <abadger1999> Who wants the potato? 18:27:34 <jwb> i'll bite 18:29:01 <nirik> make sure you cook the potato... raw ones are not that tasty. ;) 18:29:19 <abadger1999> #action jwb will chair nextweek's meeting 18:29:27 <abadger1999> #topic Open Floor 18:29:27 <jwb> i am secretly hoping a meeting won't be needed, but hey 18:29:31 <jwb> i have something 18:29:57 <abadger1999> You have the floor :-) 18:30:19 <jwb> so spot sent out a proposal for how the flock conference schedule is going to work. if that stands, they want a member FESCo to help review proposals and set the schedule 18:30:36 <jwb> review talk/hackfest/etc proposals that is 18:30:49 <jwb> if nobody else is interested in doing that, i'll volunteer 18:30:55 <jwb> thoughts? 18:31:07 * nirik is happy to have jwb do it. Hope there's lots of good proposals 18:31:40 <abadger1999> I could volunteer too but if we only need one I'm happy for jwb to do it :-) 18:31:59 <sgallagh> Ditto with abadger1999 18:32:12 <sgallagh> Has flock nailed down a date yet? 18:32:34 <jwb> afaik, not specifically. "around the 9th of august" is the best we have 18:32:43 <sgallagh> Also, where did he send out that proposal? 18:32:53 <jwb> flock-planning@lists 18:32:57 * sgallagh suspects it was on one or both of the remaining mailing lists he hasn't subscribed to 18:33:26 <jwb> basically, spot, rbergeron, suehle, and one member from the Board, FESCo, and FAMSCo 18:33:35 <jwb> to create the conference committee 18:34:05 <jwb> his post has not gathered a ton of feedback yet. the feedback it has gathered has been positive 18:34:25 <nirik> I think it's a reasonable idea... 18:34:26 <sgallagh> jwb: It might be worth expanding it to a more heavily-subscribed list 18:34:58 * jwb wonders if spot is listening 18:35:04 <nirik> I suspect he was looking for feedback on the plan before spreading it out to more lists, etc. 18:36:40 <jwb> anyway, that's all i had. if someone REALLY wants to be the FESCo rep, let me know. otherwise i'll plan on it 18:38:18 <nirik> just as a reminder: there's a lists.fedoraproject.org outage starting at 21:00UTC today... 18:38:42 <jwb> REPRIEVE 18:38:48 <jwb> uh.. i mean... 18:38:49 * suehle chimes in with a lack of information about dates... The College of Charleston is pushing back on the room reservations, so we're trying to satisfy their needs. It's between orientation and school starting, so it's a challenge. 18:39:09 <jwb> thanks suehle 18:40:11 <suehle> the intended time frame is around August 9-13 18:41:08 <pjones> August in Charleston. 18:41:10 <pjones> Wonderful. 18:41:36 <suehle> Better than January in Blacksburg IMO 18:42:22 <mitr> (Is Flock timing a FESCo topic?) 18:42:32 <abadger1999> mitr: it could sorta kinda be... 18:43:09 <jwb> not really. i think we can close the meeting. 18:43:21 <abadger1999> but I think it would have to be something like: no one on fesco/few of our packagers can attend at that time -- ask flock-planning committee to reconsiderthe schedule. 18:43:36 <abadger1999> and I'd think the planning committee would already have heard if that were the case. 18:44:34 * abadger1999 will close in 2 minutes if there's nothing further. 18:46:25 <abadger1999> #endmeeting