Christoph Wickert wrote:
Am Mittwoch, den 28.01.2009, 21:10 -0500 schrieb Behdad Esfahbod:
> Robert Scheck wrote:
>> But mostly the Red Hat guys are lacking massive
>> RPM knowledge and ignore Guidelines [snip].
> Can we please be done with this kind of blanket statements as well as "Red Hat
> vs the community" comments? They are derogatory, demoralizing, and border on
> offensive. And after the third time, simply frustrating. Red Hat has some of
> the best engineers in the world, perhaps some of the worst if you wish, and
> most probably a lot of average ones. So what?
I think what Robert and me wanted to express is: It's not only that some
(!) people from RH do not follow the guidelines but some also explicitly
refuse to follow them even after they were told them what's wrong. I
have no explanation for that kind of behavior but arrogance.
I have a very unpleasant experience with a community maintainer over a package
we co-maintained and that I'm the upstream. Do I extrapolate that to all
non-RH people? No. Stop discriminating already. If an RH person doesn't
follow Fedora rules and guidelines, follow the standard Fedora procedures to
deal with them. Stop whining. Please.
> Most of what is seen as "Red Hat guys are bad at
packaging" is simply baggage
> held from the Core days.
Agreed, but we've had merge reviews with proposals for enhancements and
fixes that did not get applied by the owner. I have never ever seen this
from a community member. If someone did, his review request would be
closed "WONTFIX" pretty soon, but this isn't possible for merge reviews.
Sure. That's a problem with the merge review procedure perhaps? Definitely
not something to blame the poor RH developer for. I still have many merge
reviews unresolved. Am I blocking them? Hell no. Go ahead and complete
them. I'll give you full maintainership if you need. As I said a couple
months ago, just because I work for Red Hat doesn't mean Fedora procedures get
to decide what I work on.
> Unfortunately (for us "Red Hat guys") most Core
> packages were simply thrown upon us as part of our job. I would never
> *volunteer* to do packaging, as that's not what I'm best at.
Does that mean you are expecting someone who volunteers for something to
do it better than someone who has do to it because he get's paid for? I
can not follow that argument and I doubt your employer will.
If I don't like what I'm doing, I'll do a very shitty job at it. If I
wouldn't volunteer for something, chances are high that I don't like it. My
manager and my employer fully understand those two facts.
> If someone wants
> to go ahead and take maintainership of all my packages, I very well appreciate
> it. I'm sure many other "Red Hat guys" are in the same boat.
This is what I call a constructive suggestion. ;)
Now wait and see how much real change that makes. That's the problem...
behdad
Regards,
Christoph
> behdad
> proud Red Hat employee, poor package maintainer, RPM n00b.