12:01 p.m.
Hiyas,
I want to start the non-responsive maintainer process for Krzysztof
Kurzawski, because youtube-dl was not updated for several releases and
there was not response to bug reports regarding this.
I will use this bug to track my contacting attempts:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=496593
On 2009-07-21 I already wrote a mail to youtube-dl-owner and suggested
to take over youtube-dl, but I did not receive any response.
If you know Krzysztof, please ping him.
Regards
Till
12:33 p.m.
On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 19:01:21 +0200, Till wrote:
Hiyas,
I want to start the non-responsive maintainer process for Krzysztof
Kurzawski, because youtube-dl was not updated for several releases and
there was not response to bug reports regarding this.
I will use this bug to track my contacting attempts:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=496593
On 2009-07-21 I already wrote a mail to youtube-dl-owner and suggested
to take over youtube-dl, but I did not receive any response.
If you know Krzysztof, please ping him.
Good example of how poor the current process is.
You say 2009-07-21, but actually the same person has not responded to
bugzilla tickets for many more months. 15 tickets, but only one reply a
year ago (a comment that three packages have been orphaned).
Triaging caused these two to be closed WONTFIX without any comment
from the package owner at all:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/455567
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/468626
The following bug was reported on 2008-11-02
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/469602
and is still without a response. After six months, it was
fixed by Milos Jakubicek, probably with provenpackager privileges,
while the package owner continues to be non-responsive.
1:10 p.m.
New subject: Non-responsive maintainer process for kurzawa / Krzysztof Kurzawski
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 07:33:46PM +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote:
On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 19:01:21 +0200, Till wrote:
> I want to start the non-responsive maintainer process for
Krzysztof
> Kurzawski, because youtube-dl was not updated for several releases and
> there was not response to bug reports regarding this.
>
> I will use this bug to track my contacting attempts:
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=496593
>
> On 2009-07-21 I already wrote a mail to youtube-dl-owner and suggested
> to take over youtube-dl, but I did not receive any response.
>
> If you know Krzysztof, please ping him.
Good example of how poor the current process is.
I agree, but at least in 3 weeks if I do remember to write all mails or
bug comments, then FESCo will hopefully agree to allow other maintainers
to get the packages in this case. But I would also like to have a
community accepted way to easier fix packages that are neglected.
Maybe something like people need to convince at least two FESCo members
and have no FESCo member object to get this done:
1) Write a mail to fedora-devel with the problems of the package and a
summary of communication attempts and open a ticket in FESCo to track
all this.
2) If nobody from FESCo objects and two members agree after three days,
the package can be reassigned.
Regards
Till
1:35 p.m.
New subject: Non-responsive maintainer process for kurzawa / Krzysztof Kurzawski
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 08:10:03PM +0200, Till Maas wrote:
Maybe something like people need to convince at least two FESCo
members
and have no FESCo member object to get this done:
1) Write a mail to fedora-devel with the problems of the package and a
summary of communication attempts and open a ticket in FESCo to track
all this.
2) If nobody from FESCo objects and two members agree after three days,
the package can be reassigned.
I have created an official proposal for this on FESCo trac:
https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/251
Regards
Till
3:13 a.m.
On Fri, 11 Sep 2009 20:10:03 +0200, Till wrote:
> Good example of how poor the current process is.
I agree, but at least in 3 weeks if I do remember to write all mails or
bug comments, then FESCo will hopefully agree to allow other maintainers
to get the packages in this case. But I would also like to have a
community accepted way to easier fix packages that are neglected.
The single month you're willing to wait is not much of a problem. There is
a more fundamental problem. The non-responsive packager procedure could
have been started _several_ months earlier. Perhaps one year ago already.
There have been dead silent bugzilla tickets that ought to have raised an
alarm-bell.
3:45 a.m.
New subject: Non-responsive maintainer process for kurzawa / Krzysztof Kurzawski
On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 10:13 AM, Michael Schwendt <mschwendt(a)gmail.com> wrote:
The non-responsive packager procedure could
have been started _several_ months earlier. Perhaps one year ago already.
There have been dead silent bugzilla tickets that ought to have raised an
alarm-bell.
Is this something that could be automated? FWIW, Debian has a
"Work-Needing Packages" script that spams devel based on simple
metrics from the bugtracker. The same script could point out inactive
maintainers.
This is also a good tool for guiding new volunteers to areas that need
attention.
cheers,
m
--
martin.langhoff(a)gmail.com
martin(a)laptop.org -- School Server Architect
- ask interesting questions
- don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first
- http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff
8:13 a.m.
New subject: Non-responsive maintainer process for kurzawa / Krzysztof Kurzawski
On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 10:13:52AM +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote:
The single month you're willing to wait is not much of a problem.
There is
a more fundamental problem. The non-responsive packager procedure could
have been started _several_ months earlier. Perhaps one year ago already.
There have been dead silent bugzilla tickets that ought to have raised an
alarm-bell.
I would have started the process earlier, if I did not have to write
several mails for it in specific intervalls, e.g. when I spotted the
first bug report. But imho it is too much a PITA to write these mails at
these intervalls and also if I spot a problem, then I normally have some
spare time to spend on Fedora, which might not be the case when the
process is finished and I could start the actual work.
Regards
Till
12:34 p.m.
Am Samstag, den 12.09.2009, 10:13 +0200 schrieb Michael Schwendt:
The non-responsive packager procedure could
have been started _several_ months earlier. Perhaps one year ago already.
IIRC it did.
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-August/msg00321.html
Regards,
Christoph
3:18 p.m.
On Sat, 12 Sep 2009 19:34:27 +0200, Christoph wrote:
Am Samstag, den 12.09.2009, 10:13 +0200 schrieb Michael Schwendt:
> The non-responsive packager procedure could
> have been started _several_ months earlier. Perhaps one year ago already.
IIRC it did.
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-August/msg00321.html
Well, that confirms my point of view. According to that thread, he replied
9 days later, said he had been on vacation. He orphaned a few packages even.
That single "sign of life" wiped away all the concerns. In August 2008.
Now switch to April 2009. A provenpackager fixed bug 469602 in one of
kurzawa's packages after six months without a comment, but not mentioned
anything about the non-responsiveness. Perhaps they talked about it
outside of bugzilla? Who knows? Then let's jump to June/July 2009. Bug
Zapper's F9-EOL script closed tickets 455567 and 468626. The former has
been without a comment for almost a year. It dates back to July 2008,
which is around the time you were worried about the non-responsiveness and
the state of some of the packages.
3:33 p.m.
Dne 12.9.2009 22:18, Michael Schwendt napsal(a):
On Sat, 12 Sep 2009 19:34:27 +0200, Christoph wrote:
> Am Samstag, den 12.09.2009, 10:13 +0200 schrieb Michael Schwendt:
>> The non-responsive packager procedure could
>> have been started _several_ months earlier. Perhaps one year ago already.
>
> IIRC it did.
> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-August/msg00321.html
Well, that confirms my point of view. According to that thread, he replied
9 days later, said he had been on vacation. He orphaned a few packages even.
That single "sign of life" wiped away all the concerns. In August 2008.
Now switch to April 2009. A provenpackager fixed bug 469602 in one of
kurzawa's packages after six months without a comment, but not mentioned
anything about the non-responsiveness. Perhaps they talked about it
outside of bugzilla? Who knows?
IIRC I fixed this together with (and because of) the FTBFS of that
package. Is there any way how to find out that there has been a
non-reponsiveness process started against somebody? Maybe there should
be a simple wiki page containing just FAS username, the date of start,
the date of end and the result/comment.
Regards,
Milos
4:55 p.m.
Michael Schwendt wrote:
Well, that confirms my point of view. According to that thread, he
replied
9 days later, said he had been on vacation. He orphaned a few packages
even. That single "sign of life" wiped away all the concerns.
IMHO, a consecutive week or longer without being online (there are usually
ways to check your mail when on vacation, if not, see the next point) and
with no preannouncement (that's what the Vacation page in the wiki is for!)
is enough to constitute non-responsiveness on its own (especially if it's a
planned vacation, not some kind of accident).
Kevin Kofler
5:12 p.m.
On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 11:55:11PM +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote:
IMHO, a consecutive week or longer without being online (there are usually
ways to check your mail when on vacation, if not, see the next point) and
with no preannouncement (that's what the Vacation page in the wiki is for!)
is enough to constitute non-responsiveness on its own (especially if it's a
planned vacation, not some kind of accident).
The Vacation page cannot be a must use, these are personal informations
not everybody want to share.
--
Pat
8:49 p.m.
Kevin Kofler <kevin.kofler(a)chello.at> writes:
IMHO, a consecutive week or longer without being online (there are
usually
ways to check your mail when on vacation, if not, see the next point) and
with no preannouncement (that's what the Vacation page in the wiki is for!)
is enough to constitute non-responsiveness on its own
You *seriously* need to get a life. The above sort of standard might be
reasonable for people who were getting paid to do Fedora packaging, but
a large fraction of Fedora packagers aren't.
(Not that kurzawa doesn't seem to be well past the threshold of
reasonable responsiveness. But people are allowed to take two-week
vacations without having to answer to FESCO for it.)
regards, tom lane
11:03 a.m.
New subject: Non-responsive maintainer process for kurzawa / Krzysztof Kurzawski
On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Kevin Kofler <kevin.kofler(a)chello.at> wrote:
Neither am I. Yet I do all I can to stay reachable.
Right, but even still, I don't really think that "you're not online
for a week, you're gone!" is the right approach. There are probably a
good many packagers that don't check in once a week or more. Not the
case for you or I obviously, but I wouldn't discount that they exist.
There have been times when I'm on vacation in the middle of nowhere
and couldn't get Internet, etc. Do I have to orphan all my packages
when I'm planning on being on vacation for two weeks? There are also
times when I can get Internet but would prefer not to, etc.
Jon "writing this at 38,000 feet on the way to SFO" Stanley
11:05 a.m.
On 09/18/2009 09:33 PM, Jon Stanley wrote:
On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Kevin Kofler
<kevin.kofler(a)chello.at> wrote:
> Neither am I. Yet I do all I can to stay reachable.
Right, but even still, I don't really think that "you're not online
for a week, you're gone!" is the right approach. There are probably a
good many packagers that don't check in once a week or more. Not the
case for you or I obviously, but I wouldn't discount that they exist.
So, what would be the right approach? The current policy seems deficient
or needs to be complimented by automated checks for activity. Monitoring
how many bug reports go unanswered by maintainers for example.
Rahul
11:23 a.m.
New subject: Non-responsive maintainer process for kurzawa / Krzysztof Kurzawski
On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 12:05 PM, Rahul Sundaram
<sundaram(a)fedoraproject.org> wrote:
Monitoring
how many bug reports go unanswered by maintainers for example.
That would be a good start. One could produce a report (sounds like
I'm volunteering, but I have no time this weekend because of my
brother's wedding) for something like "packages with no response from
the maintainer for ~3 months".
Actually writing this may be harder than it sounds, though - I could
certainly find unmodified bugs, but what if they were modified by
someone/something other than the maintainer?
1:09 p.m.
New subject: Non-responsive maintainer process for kurzawa / Krzysztof Kurzawski
On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 12:23:13 -0400, Jon wrote:
> Monitoring
> how many bug reports go unanswered by maintainers for example.
That would be a good start. One could produce a report (sounds like
I'm volunteering, but I have no time this weekend because of my
brother's wedding) for something like "packages with no response from
the maintainer for ~3 months".
Actually writing this may be harder than it sounds, though - I could
certainly find unmodified bugs, but what if they were modified by
someone/something other than the maintainer?
Well, first of all, we're interested in entirely "inactive tickets".
That are tickets were nobody other than the reporter has posted (and
possibly even the reporter has stopped adding comments). It gets
interesting when such tickets pile up or are still without a reply after a
growing period of time. It gets more interesting when someone/something
closes such tickets and this "someone/something" is not assigned to the
package in pkgdb.
If "something" is some automated bug-triaging script, it becomes
dangerous, since you cannot rely on the bug reporter to do the grunt work
and reopen a ticket. Such tickets may count as "ignored tickets".
A worst-case scenario. Only after months somebody may find out that a
package maintainer has been non-responsive and inactive for months and
that packages are out-of-date or even broken.
11:19 a.m.
Once upon a time, Jon Stanley <jonstanley(a)gmail.com> said:
On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Kevin Kofler
<kevin.kofler(a)chello.at> wrote:
> Neither am I. Yet I do all I can to stay reachable.
Right, but even still, I don't really think that "you're not online
for a week, you're gone!" is the right approach. There are probably a
good many packagers that don't check in once a week or more. Not the
case for you or I obviously, but I wouldn't discount that they exist.
I only have 2 minor packages (both of which will probably not change
again), so it isn't a big deal for me, but I would say one week is too
short. I was recently on vacation for a week where I barely had time to
look at a computer (Dragon*Con, where I was on staff). I checked my
email at most once a day, and I certainly wouldn't have been able to do
any package work during that time.
In a couple of weeks, I get to report to a US district court for jury
duty for "approximately two weeks" in a small town (that had a RHL beta
release series named after it!); who knows how much I'll be able to get
online during that time.
--
Chris Adams <cmadams(a)hiwaay.net>
Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services
I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.
11:39 a.m.
New subject: Non-responsive maintainer process for kurzawa / Krzysztof Kurzawski
On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 12:03:59PM -0400, Jon Stanley wrote:
On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Kevin Kofler
<kevin.kofler(a)chello.at> wrote:
> Neither am I. Yet I do all I can to stay reachable.
Right, but even still, I don't really think that "you're not online
for a week, you're gone!" is the right approach. There are probably a
good many packagers that don't check in once a week or more. Not the
case for you or I obviously, but I wouldn't discount that they exist.
There have been times when I'm on vacation in the middle of nowhere
and couldn't get Internet, etc. Do I have to orphan all my packages
when I'm planning on being on vacation for two weeks? There are also
times when I can get Internet but would prefer not to, etc.
The current non-responsive maintainer policy and even my proposal won't
exclude anyone from Fedora, just because he is not online. So in case a
issue cannot be handled by someone and the process is executed, then the
old maintainer can still become maintainer of their packages again
afaics. Imho it is more important to fix bugs or issues, than to make
sure that packages are only maintained by certain people. Maybe there
will be even co-maintainers after the non-responsive maintainer policy
is executed. The one who will maintain it after the procedure and the
original maintainer if he or she becomes resposive again.
Regards
Till
1:35 p.m.
New subject: Non-responsive maintainer process for kurzawa / Krzysztof Kurzawski
On Fri, 2009-09-18 at 12:03 -0400, Jon Stanley wrote:
On Sat, Sep 12, 2009 at 10:30 PM, Kevin Kofler
<kevin.kofler(a)chello.at> wrote:
> Neither am I. Yet I do all I can to stay reachable.
Right, but even still, I don't really think that "you're not online
for a week, you're gone!" is the right approach. There are probably a
good many packagers that don't check in once a week or more. Not the
case for you or I obviously, but I wouldn't discount that they exist.
There have been times when I'm on vacation in the middle of nowhere
and couldn't get Internet, etc. Do I have to orphan all my packages
when I'm planning on being on vacation for two weeks? There are also
times when I can get Internet but would prefer not to, etc.
Jon "writing this at 38,000 feet on the way to SFO" Stanley
In all fairness, that is not what Kevin suggested. He suggested that
maintainers who are absent for two weeks (not one) *without providing
notification before they left* should be considered non-responsive.
That's a significant difference.
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org
http://www.happyassassin.net
8:57 a.m.
New subject: Non-responsive maintainer process for kurzawa / Krzysztof Kurzawski
Aloas,
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 07:01:21PM +0200, Till Maas wrote:
I want to start the non-responsive maintainer process for Krzysztof
Kurzawski, because youtube-dl was not updated for several releases and
there was not response to bug reports regarding this.
I will use this bug to track my contacting attempts:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=496593
On 2009-07-21 I already wrote a mail to youtube-dl-owner and suggested
to take over youtube-dl, but I did not receive any response.
If you know Krzysztof, please ping him.
a week has passed, so this is the second attempt to reach Krzysztof.
Regards
Till
12:17 p.m.
On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 15:57:10 +0200
Till Maas <opensource(a)till.name> wrote:
Aloas,
On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 07:01:21PM +0200, Till Maas wrote:
> I want to start the non-responsive maintainer process for Krzysztof
> Kurzawski, because youtube-dl was not updated for several releases
> and there was not response to bug reports regarding this.
>
> I will use this bug to track my contacting attempts:
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=496593
>
> On 2009-07-21 I already wrote a mail to youtube-dl-owner and
> suggested to take over youtube-dl, but I did not receive any
> response.
>
> If you know Krzysztof, please ping him.
a week has passed, so this is the second attempt to reach Krzysztof.
The following packages have been orphaned:
gfeed
greyhounds
incollector
netmonitor
pic2aa
scythia
wavextract
xhotkeys
yoltia
youtube-dl
Also, I would be happy to take 'greyhounds'. Co-maintainers welcome.
kevin
12:24 p.m.
New subject: Non-responsive maintainer process for kurzawa / Krzysztof Kurzawski
2009/9/25 Kevin Fenzi <kevin(a)scrye.com>
The following packages have been orphaned:
gfeed
greyhounds
incollector
netmonitor
pic2aa
scythia
wavextract
xhotkeys
yoltia
youtube-dl
Also, I would be happy to take 'greyhounds'. Co-maintainers welcome.
kevin
I'm a maintainer of metacafe-dl which is similar to youtube-dl, so I would
like to take it.
1:13 p.m.
New subject: Non-responsive maintainer process for kurzawa / Krzysztof Kurzawski
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 07:24:01PM +0200, Rafał Psota wrote:
2009/9/25 Kevin Fenzi <kevin(a)scrye.com>
>
> The following packages have been orphaned:
> youtube-dl
> Also, I would be happy to take 'greyhounds'.
Co-maintainers welcome.
I'm a maintainer of metacafe-dl which is similar to youtube-dl,
so I would
like to take it.
Please take ownership then:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/packages/name/youtube-dl
Afaics, you need to create a new review request for the package
afterwards:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Orphaned_package_that_need_new_maintainers...
Please feel free to add me t the CC list, after you updated the spec, I
will then review it.
Regards
Till
1:17 p.m.
New subject: Non-responsive maintainer process for kurzawa / Krzysztof Kurzawski
On 09/25/2009 11:49 PM, Haïkel Guémar wrote:
>
> I'll take gfeed and yoltia, co-maintainers are welcome.
>
> H. Guémar
Erm, s/yoltia/scythia/ , sorry for the disturbance.
For gfeed, R. Sundaram had previously asked commit rights on pkgdb, so
he might want to take ownership.
Yes but you can add yourself as a comaintainer as well. Feel free to.
Rahul
5:26 a.m.
New subject: Non-responsive maintainer process for kurzawa / Krzysztof Kurzawski
2009/9/25 Kevin Fenzi <kevin(a)scrye.com>:
On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 15:57:10 +0200
Till Maas <opensource(a)till.name> wrote:
> Aloas,
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 07:01:21PM +0200, Till Maas wrote:
>
> > I want to start the non-responsive maintainer process for Krzysztof
> > Kurzawski, because youtube-dl was not updated for several releases
> > and there was not response to bug reports regarding this.
> >
> > I will use this bug to track my contacting attempts:
> > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=496593
> >
> > On 2009-07-21 I already wrote a mail to youtube-dl-owner and
> > suggested to take over youtube-dl, but I did not receive any
> > response.
> >
> > If you know Krzysztof, please ping him.
>
> a week has passed, so this is the second attempt to reach Krzysztof.
The following packages have been orphaned:
incollector
I have taken incollector. It wasn't updated about 5 months.
Review: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=525927
--
LG Thomas
Dubium sapientiae initium
8:32 a.m.
Kevin Fenzi wrote:
On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 15:57:10 +0200
Till Maas <opensource(a)till.name> wrote:
> Aloas,
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 07:01:21PM +0200, Till Maas wrote:
>
>
>> I want to start the non-responsive maintainer process for Krzysztof
>> Kurzawski, because youtube-dl was not updated for several releases
>> and there was not response to bug reports regarding this.
>>
>> I will use this bug to track my contacting attempts:
>> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=496593
>>
>> On 2009-07-21 I already wrote a mail to youtube-dl-owner and
>> suggested to take over youtube-dl, but I did not receive any
>> response.
>>
>> If you know Krzysztof, please ping him.
>>
> a week has passed, so this is the second attempt to reach Krzysztof.
>
The following packages have been orphaned:
gfeed
greyhounds
incollector
netmonitor
pic2aa
scythia
wavextract
xhotkeys
yoltia
youtube-dl
Also, I would be happy to take 'greyhounds'. Co-maintainers welcome.
kevin
Took wavextract.
--
in your fear, seek only peace
in your fear, seek only love
-d. bowie
5347
days inactive
5364
days old
29 comments
17 participants
participants (17)
-
Adam Williamson -
Chris Adams -
Christoph Wickert -
Haïkel Guémar -
Jon Ciesla -
Jon Stanley -
Kevin Fenzi -
Kevin Kofler -
Martin Langhoff -
Michael Schwendt -
Milos Jakubicek -
Patrice Dumas -
Rafał Psota -
Rahul Sundaram -
Thomas Janssen -
Till Maas -
Tom Lane