= Proposed Self Contained Change: SDDM as the default KDE display manager instead of KDM = https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/SDDMinsteadOfKDM
Change owner(s): Martin Briza mbriza@redhat.com and KDE SIG
Retire KDM as the default display manager of the KDE Fedora Spin in favor of SDDM.
== Detailed description == As described in many articles and discussions, KDM is nearing its end of life and it's time we decided upon the successor.
I'm proposing to switch to SDDM, which is a new project that suits our needs perfectly despite its immaturity:
As of July 2013, KDM's maintenance consists of bugfixes for the most painful bugs, consisting of only about 20 actual commits to the repository in last two years (excluding translation, themes and merges), adding many new features would require major changes to a lot of the code and there is no active maintainer.
SDDM is written in C++11/Qt5 (compared to the bits of XDM in KDM), compilable against Qt4, supports QtQuick theming and its upstream is quite active.
Compared to the current DM, KDM, it currently lacks a few features (such as XDMCP) but adds some other ones (QtQuick themes) or is currently adding them (Keyboard layout switching in the greeter).
== Scope == Proposal owners: * Create sddm and sddm-kcm packages. * Change kde-settings and the spin-kickstarts to provide SDDM package instead of KDM * (eventually) exclude KDM from the kde-workspace package
Other developers: N/A (not a System Wide Change) Release engineering: N/A (not a System Wide Change) Policies and guidelines: N/A (not a System Wide Change) _______________________________________________ devel-announce mailing list devel-announce@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel-announce
Hi,
Due to some concerns that were raised regarding further KDM inclusion, I'm adding this information to the change description: KDM will still be included in the repositories of Fedora, the change affects only new installations of Fedora 20, which will have SDDM enabled as the default DM, with the option to switch to KDM (or any other DM) freely.
Cheers, Martin
On Wed, 10 Jul 2013 20:03:22 +0200, Jaroslav Reznik jreznik@redhat.com wrote:
= Proposed Self Contained Change: SDDM as the default KDE display manager instead of KDM = https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/SDDMinsteadOfKDM
Change owner(s): Martin Briza mbriza@redhat.com and KDE SIG
Retire KDM as the default display manager of the KDE Fedora Spin in favor of SDDM.
== Detailed description == As described in many articles and discussions, KDM is nearing its end of life and it's time we decided upon the successor.
I'm proposing to switch to SDDM, which is a new project that suits our needs perfectly despite its immaturity:
As of July 2013, KDM's maintenance consists of bugfixes for the most painful bugs, consisting of only about 20 actual commits to the repository in last two years (excluding translation, themes and merges), adding many new features would require major changes to a lot of the code and there is no active maintainer.
SDDM is written in C++11/Qt5 (compared to the bits of XDM in KDM), compilable against Qt4, supports QtQuick theming and its upstream is quite active.
Compared to the current DM, KDM, it currently lacks a few features (such as XDMCP) but adds some other ones (QtQuick themes) or is currently adding them (Keyboard layout switching in the greeter).
== Scope == Proposal owners:
- Create sddm and sddm-kcm packages.
- Change kde-settings and the spin-kickstarts to provide SDDM package
instead of KDM
- (eventually) exclude KDM from the kde-workspace package
Other developers: N/A (not a System Wide Change) Release engineering: N/A (not a System Wide Change) Policies and guidelines: N/A (not a System Wide Change) _______________________________________________ devel-announce mailing list devel-announce@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel-announce
On Thu, 11.07.13 12:34, Martin Briza (mbriza@redhat.com) wrote:
= Proposed Self Contained Change: SDDM as the default KDE display manager instead of KDM = https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/SDDMinsteadOfKDM
Change owner(s): Martin Briza mbriza@redhat.com and KDE SIG
BTW, I have some more multi-seat hardware to give away to folks who want to add true automatic multi-seat to stuff like display managers.
It's a USB box that will give you an VGA/DVI port + audio, plus connectors for kbd/mouse. So you just need to connect a display, mouse and keyboard to it, and then plug it into your existing machine and should have a second seat wihout any configuration. This works out-of-the-box for GNOME/gdm systems. If you guys want to make this work for KDE too, then I can pass you that hardware. It's free, you can keep it, but I'd preferably like to send this to Europe only.
It's hardware you can use to implement this stuff:
http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/multiseat/
(This offer stands for everybody who hacks on things like this, regardless which desktop environment you hack on.)
Lennart
On Thu, 11 Jul 2013 15:26:14 +0200, Lennart Poettering mzerqung@0pointer.de wrote:
BTW, I have some more multi-seat hardware to give away to folks who want to add true automatic multi-seat to stuff like display managers.
It's a USB box that will give you an VGA/DVI port + audio, plus connectors for kbd/mouse. So you just need to connect a display, mouse and keyboard to it, and then plug it into your existing machine and should have a second seat wihout any configuration. This works out-of-the-box for GNOME/gdm systems. If you guys want to make this work for KDE too, then I can pass you that hardware. It's free, you can keep it, but I'd preferably like to send this to Europe only.
It's hardware you can use to implement this stuff:
http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/multiseat/
(This offer stands for everybody who hacks on things like this, regardless which desktop environment you hack on.)
Lennart
Thanks for the offer! Even though I'd love to have the device for my personal use, it won't be necessary. I have borrowed one of the devices in our office to write basic multi-seat support for KDM, so you can distribute it to other folks who'd want to add the support to other DMs.
On Mon, 15.07.13 13:17, Martin Briza (mbriza@redhat.com) wrote:
BTW, I have some more multi-seat hardware to give away to folks who want to add true automatic multi-seat to stuff like display managers.
It's a USB box that will give you an VGA/DVI port + audio, plus connectors for kbd/mouse. So you just need to connect a display, mouse and keyboard to it, and then plug it into your existing machine and should have a second seat wihout any configuration. This works out-of-the-box for GNOME/gdm systems. If you guys want to make this work for KDE too, then I can pass you that hardware. It's free, you can keep it, but I'd preferably like to send this to Europe only.
It's hardware you can use to implement this stuff:
http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/multiseat/
(This offer stands for everybody who hacks on things like this, regardless which desktop environment you hack on.)
Lennart
Thanks for the offer! Even though I'd love to have the device for my personal use, it won't be necessary. I have borrowed one of the devices in our office to write basic multi-seat support for KDM, so you can distribute it to other folks who'd want to add the support to other DMs.
Hmm, any chance you can connect me with somebody from the KDE community who might need such a device and would do something nice with it? Somebody who wants to work on some display manager, or maybe on some graphical tool to reconfigure seats or so?
I am trying so hard to be nice to the KDE community, but nobody wants my presents! ;-)
Lennart
On Monday 15 July 2013 13:34:58 Lennart Poettering wrote:
On Mon, 15.07.13 13:17, Martin Briza (mbriza@redhat.com) wrote:
BTW, I have some more multi-seat hardware to give away to folks who want to add true automatic multi-seat to stuff like display managers.
It's a USB box that will give you an VGA/DVI port + audio, plus connectors for kbd/mouse. So you just need to connect a display, mouse and keyboard to it, and then plug it into your existing machine and should have a second seat wihout any configuration. This works out-of-the-box for GNOME/gdm systems. If you guys want to make this work for KDE too, then I can pass you that hardware. It's free, you can keep it, but I'd preferably like to send this to Europe only.
It's hardware you can use to implement this stuff:
http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/multiseat/
(This offer stands for everybody who hacks on things like this, regardless which desktop environment you hack on.)
Lennart
Thanks for the offer! Even though I'd love to have the device for my personal use, it won't be necessary. I have borrowed one of the devices in our office to write basic multi-seat support for KDM, so you can distribute it to other folks who'd want to add the support to other DMs.
Hmm, any chance you can connect me with somebody from the KDE community who might need such a device and would do something nice with it? Somebody who wants to work on some display manager, or maybe on some graphical tool to reconfigure seats or so?
I am trying so hard to be nice to the KDE community, but nobody wants my presents! ;-)
Lennart
Why not contact them directly at: kde-devel@kde.org or at #kde-devel in freenode.net?
Regards,
Marc Deop
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 18:32:51 +0200, Marc Deop i Argemí marc@marcdeop.com wrote:
On Monday 15 July 2013 13:34:58 Lennart Poettering wrote:
Hmm, any chance you can connect me with somebody from the KDE community who might need such a device and would do something nice with it? Somebody who wants to work on some display manager, or maybe on some graphical tool to reconfigure seats or so?
I am trying so hard to be nice to the KDE community, but nobody wants my presents! ;-)
Lennart
Why not contact them directly at: kde-devel@kde.org or at #kde-devel in freenode.net?
Regards,
Marc Deop
Thanks Marc. :) Also you can try kde-hardware-devel@kde.org . I'm also poking some people on the IRC. There were some who thought (there was even a prototype iirc) about tools to control systemd services, I guess they'd be interested in adding seats, too. :)
On Wed, 2013-07-10 at 20:03 +0200, Jaroslav Reznik wrote:
= Proposed Self Contained Change: SDDM as the default KDE display manager instead of KDM = https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/SDDMinsteadOfKDM
Change owner(s): Martin Briza mbriza@redhat.com and KDE SIG
Retire KDM as the default display manager of the KDE Fedora Spin in favor of SDDM.
== Detailed description == As described in many articles and discussions, KDM is nearing its end of life and it's time we decided upon the successor.
I'm proposing to switch to SDDM, which is a new project that suits our needs perfectly despite its immaturity:
Fine, but can we please have this done *soon*? Ideally, the packages could already have been created in Rawhide long ago, and this would be a swap. But please at least have it in place for Alpha TC1. It's a pain dealing with DM changes during release cycles.
- Change kde-settings and the spin-kickstarts to provide SDDM package instead
of KDM
You will need to change comps, not spin-kickstarts.
On Thu, 11 Jul 2013 22:00:58 +0200, Adam Williamson awilliam@redhat.com wrote:
Fine, but can we please have this done *soon*? Ideally, the packages could already have been created in Rawhide long ago, and this would be a swap. But please at least have it in place for Alpha TC1. It's a pain dealing with DM changes during release cycles.
Yes, I know it's a bit late. I'll open the review request today.
You will need to change comps, not spin-kickstarts.
Thank you for the correction.
I thought I recall reading a plan about kde moving to lightdm at one point?
Perhaps you could mention the reasons SSDM was decided over lightdm-qt?
This might be of area to other spins that use lightdm currently and might wish to look at SSDM too.
Thanks,
kevin
----- Original Message -----
I thought I recall reading a plan about kde moving to lightdm at one point?
Perhaps you could mention the reasons SSDM was decided over lightdm-qt?
Not up to date comparison - http://aseigo.blogspot.cz/2013/03/logging-into-plasma-workspaces-2.html Martin knows more about decision later, I can see Canonical's CLA and future Wayland support as the main reasons.
Jaroslav
This might be of area to other spins that use lightdm currently and might wish to look at SSDM too.
Thanks,
kevin
-- devel mailing list devel@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
To add to this article, there are some bits in the Documentation part of the change proposal. Some information is already obsolete though because of fast pace of development of SDDM. To conclude, the main reasons are the CLA which is a participation blocker for many people and better outlook on future maintenance (for us, used to KDE codebase), as it's written in C++ and Qt, compared to C and Glib in LightDM.
On Mon, 15 Jul 2013 10:09:00 +0200, Jaroslav Reznik jreznik@redhat.com wrote:
----- Original Message -----
I thought I recall reading a plan about kde moving to lightdm at one point?
Perhaps you could mention the reasons SSDM was decided over lightdm-qt?
Not up to date comparison - http://aseigo.blogspot.cz/2013/03/logging-into-plasma-workspaces-2.html Martin knows more about decision later, I can see Canonical's CLA and future Wayland support as the main reasons.
Jaroslav
This might be of area to other spins that use lightdm currently and might wish to look at SSDM too.
Thanks,
kevin
I opened a package review request: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=984700 now. The DM works, yet there are still some issues (incomplete PAM support, you'll be able to log in but with no sound for example) which I'm working with the upstream on fixing. I'm expecting to include at least version 0.2.0 to be included in Fedora 20.
-
Adam Williamson -
Jaroslav Reznik -
Kevin Fenzi -
Lennart Poettering -
Marc Deop Argemí -
Martin Bříza