Hi all,
Gnome recently has stirred up controversy lately and aren't taking other people's opinions very well, to say the least. So far they've locked three threads:
https://www.reddit.com/r/gnome/comments/gz6fks/we_must_all_speak_up/
https://www.reddit.com/r/gnome/comments/h107as/i_agree_with_the_we_all_must_...
https://www.reddit.com/r/gnome/comments/h0ml37/distrotube_has_posted_a_disgu...
They have engaged in racism and censorship in their subreddit's comment sections and, just recently, banned me for posting this article, which I've made:
https://medium.com/@youngty1997/gnome-needs-to-be-better-2151965fd663
You may read it for yourself. In it I cite violations of Gnome's Code of Conduct by members of the GNOME foundation or the GNOME foundation(gnome.org email address), both on their subreddit and from fedora-devel list. I tried to cite as much as possible but Gnome moderators refused to hand over the moderation logs for when they locked a thread for reporting a bug when asked. I'm confident that they know what I'm talking about but just refuse to hand it over.
Keep in mind that, in Gnome's subreddit rules, it's perfectly OK to criticize GNOME in GNOME's subreddit. It's even in the sidebar, which you cannot see on old reddit(something I've told them about multiple times, but they've ignored repeatedly to fix):
"We do not shy away from criticism, in fact, we encourage it!"
GNOME members have recently said that "This mixing of ideas from a wide range of backgrounds is something that has improved free and open source software, and it should be highly valued."
However, their actions by locking threads and now banned me for sharing an article I had made goes against this statement. To be crystal clear here, the opinions shared in the article are not *just* my own. You may also read people who agree with my opinions in comment sections of the GNOME subreddit and Fedora subreddit which I shared it to:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Fedora/comments/h7de62/gnome_needs_to_be_better/
https://www.reddit.com/r/gnome/comments/h7ddom/gnome_needs_to_be_better/
Gnome did not say that any new threads on the topic could be made nor was there any rule breakage that I could find. I would have loved to cite more things but alas, I don't have access to the information.
Sadly the moderators of each respective subreddits have censored the threads, and not even snew shows them for some reason. I've tried contacting the fedora subreddit moderators but I have a feeling they won't ever answer.
I was planning on fileing a Code of Conduct violation, but GNOME refused to turn over the requested moderation logs, so I couldn't do so and, Gnome's Code of Conduct hints as what the result will be anyway. I have zero confidence that anything will be done, so here I am sending an email.
So, could anything be done about any of this?
On 6/12/20 7:10 AM, Emmanuel Seyman wrote:
- Ty Young [12/06/2020 05:50] :
So, could anything be done about any of this?
I would propose that we keep discussions not related to the development of Fedora off the devel@ mailing-list.
Hi,
Some of the comments mentioned in my article took place on this mailing list. Would it not be appropriate to post it here as a result? Where on Fedora's mailing lists should I post it to?
Thanks.
Emmanuel _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
* Ty Young [12/06/2020 07:13] :
Some of the comments mentioned in my article took place on this mailing list. Would it not be appropriate to post it here as a result?
No, I don't think so.
Where on
Fedora's mailing lists should I post it to?
I don't think this would be considered on topic for any of Fedora's lists that I know of thus I would refrain from posting to any of them.
Emmanuel
On Fri, Jun 12, 2020 at 02:10:44PM +0200, Emmanuel Seyman wrote:
I would propose that we keep discussions not related to the development of Fedora off the devel@ mailing-list.
Yeah. This is off-topic.
So in a nutshell: 1. You've approached several FLOSS communities, even though you clearly disagree with their core values. 2. You've complained/filed bugs for things you consider to be problematic, stemming from the basic principles of said communities. 3. Members of these communities have explained multiple times, in every possible tone that these are non-issues for them and that they have absolutely no intention of compromising their tenets and in the end they asked you to take a hike. 4. Now you're back on the "Development discussions related to Fedora" mailing list, seeking what exactly? To reprove the members of both communities that have had enough of you?
Have you thought of switching to an OS/DE/whatever that better aligns with your principles instead of asking people to go against theirs?
On Friday, June 12, 2020 3:50:59 AM MST Ty Young wrote:
Hi all,
Gnome recently has stirred up controversy lately and aren't taking other people's opinions very well, to say the least. So far they've locked three threads:
https://www.reddit.com/r/gnome/comments/gz6fks/we_must_all_speak_up/
https://www.reddit.com/r/gnome/comments/h107as/i_agree_with_the_we_all_must_ speak_up_and_the/
https://www.reddit.com/r/gnome/comments/h0ml37/distrotube_has_posted_a_disgu sting_video_calling/
They have engaged in racism and censorship in their subreddit's comment sections and, just recently, banned me for posting this article, which I've made:
https://medium.com/@youngty1997/gnome-needs-to-be-better-2151965fd663
You may read it for yourself. In it I cite violations of Gnome's Code of Conduct by members of the GNOME foundation or the GNOME foundation(gnome.org email address), both on their subreddit and from fedora-devel list. I tried to cite as much as possible but Gnome moderators refused to hand over the moderation logs for when they locked a thread for reporting a bug when asked. I'm confident that they know what I'm talking about but just refuse to hand it over.
Keep in mind that, in Gnome's subreddit rules, it's perfectly OK to criticize GNOME in GNOME's subreddit. It's even in the sidebar, which you cannot see on old reddit(something I've told them about multiple times, but they've ignored repeatedly to fix):
"We do not shy away from criticism, in fact, we encourage it!"
GNOME members have recently said that "This mixing of ideas from a wide range of backgrounds is something that has improved free and open source software, and it should be highly valued."
However, their actions by locking threads and now banned me for sharing an article I had made goes against this statement. To be crystal clear here, the opinions shared in the article are not *just* my own. You may also read people who agree with my opinions in comment sections of the GNOME subreddit and Fedora subreddit which I shared it to:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Fedora/comments/h7de62/gnome_needs_to_be_better/
https://www.reddit.com/r/gnome/comments/h7ddom/gnome_needs_to_be_better/
Gnome did not say that any new threads on the topic could be made nor was there any rule breakage that I could find. I would have loved to cite more things but alas, I don't have access to the information.
Sadly the moderators of each respective subreddits have censored the threads, and not even snew shows them for some reason. I've tried contacting the fedora subreddit moderators but I have a feeling they won't ever answer.
I was planning on fileing a Code of Conduct violation, but GNOME refused to turn over the requested moderation logs, so I couldn't do so and, Gnome's Code of Conduct hints as what the result will be anyway. I have zero confidence that anything will be done, so here I am sending an email.
So, could anything be done about any of this?
The projects themselves don't care what we actually support, it's the views of a very vocal handful that get thrown onto those sorts of things. Not a whole lot we can do about it, Ty.
On 6/12/20 3:50 AM, Ty Young wrote:
Gnome recently has stirred up controversy lately and aren't taking other people's opinions very well, to say the least. So far they've locked three threads:
It doesn't look to me like it's Gnome stirring up the controversy and they've been responding very civilly to horrible comments.
They have engaged in racism and censorship in their subreddit's comment sections and, just recently, banned me for posting this article, which I've made:
https://medium.com/@youngty1997/gnome-needs-to-be-better-2151965fd663
And have since deleted.
I don't know what your userid is on reddit, but I certainly don't see anyone from Gnome doing anything wrong.
I was planning on fileing a Code of Conduct violation, but GNOME refused to turn over the requested moderation logs, so I couldn't do so and, Gnome's Code of Conduct hints as what the result will be anyway. I have zero confidence that anything will be done, so here I am sending an email.
So, could anything be done about any of this?
How is this related to Fedora? This is not the place for this.