KDE 4.12, Konqueror
context menu -> create file -> plaintext -> "testfile" fine -> a file with the name "testfile" is created
context menu -> create file -> plaintext -> "testfile.crt" WTF -> a file with the name "testfile.crt.txt" is created
context menu -> create file -> plaintext -> "testfile.key" WTF -> a file with the name "testfile.key.txt" is created
this is *not* microsoft windows i thought :-(
On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 9:00 PM, Reindl Harald h.reindl@thelounge.netwrote:
KDE 4.12, Konqueror
context menu -> create file -> plaintext -> "testfile" fine -> a file with the name "testfile" is created
context menu -> create file -> plaintext -> "testfile.crt" WTF -> a file with the name "testfile.crt.txt" is created
context menu -> create file -> plaintext -> "testfile.key" WTF -> a file with the name "testfile.key.txt" is created
this is *not* microsoft windows i thought :-(
I'm not sure if this is a complaint or a compliment. You ask Konqueror to create a plain text file and then specify an extension that isn't a plain text file. Are you saying that some Windows app would let you create a difficult to use .crt file, or that Konqueror should?
Am 09.01.2014 09:39, schrieb argonel:
On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 9:00 PM, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net mailto:h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
KDE 4.12, Konqueror context menu -> create file -> plaintext -> "testfile" fine -> a file with the name "testfile" is created context menu -> create file -> plaintext -> "testfile.crt" WTF -> a file with the name "testfile.crt.txt" is created context menu -> create file -> plaintext -> "testfile.key" WTF -> a file with the name "testfile.key.txt" is created this is *not* microsoft windows i thought :-(I'm not sure if this is a complaint or a compliment
a complaint
You ask Konqueror to create a plain text file and then specify an extension that isn't a plain text file
besides that *it is* a plaintext file and if you ever would have looked in a SSL cert file you would know that it - i am asked for a filename and i enter a filename - there is nothing to add and change nor must the behavior change between different extensions
why someone would need to create a .crt file? because someone could by a certificte at Thatwte and has to copy&paste the CA-cert as well as the orderred cert from a https-website!
Are you saying that some Windows app would let you create a difficult to use .crt file, or that Konqueror should?
i am saying that this stuid "i do not care about the user input and add what i want" is pure Windows and not valued that much on a unix system
On 2014-01-09 09:48 (GMT+0100) Reindl Harald composed:
i am saying that this stuid "i do not care about the user input and add what i want" is pure Windows and not valued that much on a unix system
You're too kind. Valued strongly negatively would be my assessment.
Thanks for your reply. I'm going to ignore it for the moment in order to ask a question.
Do you have .crt files associated with a text editor on your system?
On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 3:48 AM, Reindl Harald h.reindl@thelounge.netwrote:
Am 09.01.2014 09:39, schrieb argonel:
On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 9:00 PM, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net<mailto:
h.reindl@thelounge.net>> wrote:
KDE 4.12, Konqueror context menu -> create file -> plaintext -> "testfile" fine -> a file with the name "testfile" is created context menu -> create file -> plaintext -> "testfile.crt" WTF -> a file with the name "testfile.crt.txt" is created context menu -> create file -> plaintext -> "testfile.key" WTF -> a file with the name "testfile.key.txt" is created this is *not* microsoft windows i thought :-(I'm not sure if this is a complaint or a compliment
a complaint
You ask Konqueror to create a plain text file and then specify an
extension that isn't a plain text file
besides that *it is* a plaintext file and if you ever would have looked in a SSL cert file you would know that it - i am asked for a filename and i enter a filename - there is nothing to add and change nor must the behavior change between different extensions
why someone would need to create a .crt file? because someone could by a certificte at Thatwte and has to copy&paste the CA-cert as well as the orderred cert from a https-website!
Are you saying that some Windows app would let you create a difficult to use .crt file, or that Konqueror should?
i am saying that this stuid "i do not care about the user input and add what i want" is pure Windows and not valued that much on a unix system
kde mailing list kde@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/kde New to KDE4? - get help from http://userbase.kde.org
surely, kate
but the point is that create a new file with the context-menu must not add any extension if one is already given and since we are talking about a unix-system there is no need for an extension at all, in case of no extension .txt is *not* added
finally that means there is some fuzzy-logic which must not be there
Am 09.01.2014 10:14, schrieb argonel:
Thanks for your reply. I'm going to ignore it for the moment in order to ask a question.
Do you have .crt files associated with a text editor on your system?
On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 3:48 AM, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net mailto:h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
Am 09.01.2014 09:39, schrieb argonel: > > On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 9:00 PM, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net <mailto:h.reindl@thelounge.net> <mailto:h.reindl@thelounge.net <mailto:h.reindl@thelounge.net>>> wrote: > > KDE 4.12, Konqueror > > context menu -> create file -> plaintext -> "testfile" > fine -> a file with the name "testfile" is created > > context menu -> create file -> plaintext -> "testfile.crt" > WTF -> a file with the name "testfile.crt.txt" is created > > context menu -> create file -> plaintext -> "testfile.key" > WTF -> a file with the name "testfile.key.txt" is created > > this is *not* microsoft windows i thought :-( > > > > I'm not sure if this is a complaint or a compliment a complaint > You ask Konqueror to create a plain text file and then specify an extension that isn't a plain text file besides that *it is* a plaintext file and if you ever would have looked in a SSL cert file you would know that it - i am asked for a filename and i enter a filename - there is nothing to add and change nor must the behavior change between different extensions why someone would need to create a .crt file? because someone could by a certificte at Thatwte and has to copy&paste the CA-cert as well as the orderred cert from a https-website! > Are you saying that some Windows app would let you create a difficult to > use .crt file, or that Konqueror should? i am saying that this stuid "i do not care about the user input and add what i want" is pure Windows and not valued that much on a unix system
Hi,
On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 5:43 AM, Reindl Harald h.reindl@thelounge.netwrote:
surely, kate
Which explains why you think Konqueror is doing something wrong. For you, its easy to edit a .CRT file because the "Open with" submenu contains Kate. For everybody else, there's no *immediate* way to edit the file.
but the point is that create a new file with the context-menu must not add any extension if one is already given and since we are talking about a unix-system there is no need for an extension at all, in case of no extension .txt is *not* added
The input box asking for the file name is *only* asking for a file name, the extension is preselected as a result of the user having chosen a file type from the menu. If I were creating a file referring to this conversation, I might want one called "h.reindl", matching the format of your email address. I'd be left with a useless file, since ".reindl" is not associated with any application.
finally that means there is some fuzzy-logic which must not be there
I don't know what you're referring to here.
Am 09.01.2014 12:33, schrieb argonel:
On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 5:43 AM, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net mailto:h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
surely, kateWhich explains why you think Konqueror is doing something wrong. For you, its easy to edit a .CRT file because the "Open with" submenu contains Kate. For everybody else, there's no *immediate* way to edit the file.
irrelevant in case of the topic as well as "Open with" exists
but the point is that create a new file with the context-menu must not add any extension if one is already given and since we are talking about a unix-system there is no need for an extension at all, in case of no extension .txt is *not* addedThe input box asking for the file name is *only* asking for a file name, the extension is preselected as a result of the user having chosen a file type from the menu.
*said who*
stop to explain me the windows explorer behavior and try to understand unix if that would be true create new file "mytextfile" would have an extension
If I were creating a file referring to this conversation, I might want one called "h.reindl", matching the format of your email address.
better test out how your system works before write such e-mails or at least shutdown your windows and boot a linux system
crate new file -> "h.reindl" -> it is recognized as plaintext file and opened with kate
I'd be left with a useless file, since ".reindl" is not associated with any application.
complete non-sense, as i already said: that is *not* microsoft windows and there is no need for *any* extension
finally that means there is some fuzzy-logic which must not be there
I don't know what you're referring to here
why does "test.css" not end in "test.css.txt"? why does "test" not end in "test.txt"? why does "test.crt" end in "test.crt.txt"
this is inconsistent crap behavior
Hi,
I'll ignore the abusive language one last time.
On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 6:46 AM, Reindl Harald h.reindl@thelounge.netwrote:
complete non-sense, as i already said: that is *not* microsoft windows and there is no need for *any* extension
Try removing the CRT extension from a certificate file. Notice the type changes from "X.509 Certificate" to "plain text document"? Hmm, the extension seems needed.
Am 09.01.2014 13:33, schrieb argonel:
I'll ignore the abusive language one last time.
there was nothing abusive, this was a clear reply because someone argues repeatly technical wrong while my post was directed to someone with technical backround who possible cares, in the best case the packager
On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 6:46 AM, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net mailto:h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
complete non-sense, as i already said: that is *not* microsoft windows and there is no need for *any* extensionTry removing the CRT extension from a certificate file. Notice the type changes from "X.509 Certificate" to "plain text document"? Hmm, the extension seems needed
i very few cases, 99 out of 100 files are recognized by their content
here you go: man file
[harry@rh:~/Desktop]$ cat test <?php phpinfo(); ?>
[harry@rh:~/Desktop]$ file test test: PHP script, ASCII text
[harry@rh:~/Desktop]$ mv test test.crt [harry@rh:~/Desktop]$ file test.crt test.crt: PHP script, ASCII text
[harry@rh:~/Desktop]$ mv test.crt test.gif [harry@rh:~/Desktop]$ file test.gif test.gif: PHP script, ASCII text
https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/community/blogs/58e72888-6340-46ac-b488-d... ________________________
to get back to topic:
nothing qualifies konqueror in any way that when i say "create a file called test.crt" that it creates "test.crt.txt" because there was already a extension and *because* that behavior it is recognized as plain-text
argonel wrote:
Try removing the CRT extension from a certificate file. Notice the type changes from "X.509 Certificate" to "plain text document"? Hmm, the extension seems needed.
I agree with Reindl on this one. Adding unasked-for extensions because you think they are appropriate IS reminiscent of Windows; and if you are supporting it then I think you should be honest and say that you think Windows was right on this.
It is in appropriate in Linux / Unix to think for a user. If a user wants to create a file without an extension then that's their prerogative. If they do then they can give it any extension they want.
On Thursday 09 January 2014 03:00:55 Reindl Harald wrote:
KDE 4.12, Konqueror
context menu -> create file -> plaintext -> "testfile" fine -> a file with the name "testfile" is created
context menu -> create file -> plaintext -> "testfile.crt" WTF -> a file with the name "testfile.crt.txt" is created
context menu -> create file -> plaintext -> "testfile.key" WTF -> a file with the name "testfile.key.txt" is created
this is *not* microsoft windows i thought :-(
Am 09.01.2014 18:05, schrieb Eli Wapniarski:
It is in appropriate in Linux / Unix to think for a user
????
it is *not* it is the *Apple* way to override the user and not the Linux one if i want the Apple way i go out and buy a Mac
it is appropriate in Linux / Unix that *the user* thinks and
if I enter the complete filename already *with* the extension it's completly ludicrous that a second extension is added and to make it as laughable as possible the .txt is not predicatable aded, for some extensios yes and for others not
If a user wants to create a file without an extension then that's their prerogative. If they do then they can give it any extension they want.
and for random extensions you need to rename the file after you created it - the rename dialog is smarter and selects only the basename while with CTRL+A you select the complete name including the extension
On Thursday 09 January 2014 03:00:55 Reindl Harald wrote:
KDE 4.12, Konqueror
context menu -> create file -> plaintext -> "testfile" fine -> a file with the name "testfile" is created
context menu -> create file -> plaintext -> "testfile.crt" WTF -> a file with the name "testfile.crt.txt" is created
context menu -> create file -> plaintext -> "testfile.key" WTF -> a file with the name "testfile.key.txt" is created
this is *not* microsoft windows i thought :-(
In a Linux... at least.... The name the user gives a file when creating a file is the name he gives the file (applicaitons not withstanding). Sometimes I want to use bak or working as my extension or whatever I want. That's my choice.
Eli
On Thursday 09 January 2014 18:34:15 Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 09.01.2014 18:05, schrieb Eli Wapniarski:
It is in appropriate in Linux / Unix to think for a user
????
it is *not* it is the *Apple* way to override the user and not the Linux one if i want the Apple way i go out and buy a Mac
it is appropriate in Linux / Unix that *the user* thinks and
if I enter the complete filename already *with* the extension it's completly ludicrous that a second extension is added and to make it as laughable as possible the .txt is not predicatable aded, for some extensios yes and for others not
If a user wants to create a file without an extension then that's their prerogative. If they do then they can give it any extension they want.
and for random extensions you need to rename the file after you created it - the rename dialog is smarter and selects only the basename while with CTRL+A you select the complete name including the extension
On Thursday 09 January 2014 03:00:55 Reindl Harald wrote:
KDE 4.12, Konqueror
context menu -> create file -> plaintext -> "testfile" fine -> a file with the name "testfile" is created
context menu -> create file -> plaintext -> "testfile.crt" WTF -> a file with the name "testfile.crt.txt" is created
context menu -> create file -> plaintext -> "testfile.key" WTF -> a file with the name "testfile.key.txt" is created
this is *not* microsoft windows i thought :-(
Am 09.01.2014 18:59, schrieb Eli Wapniarski:
In a Linux... at least.... The name the user gives a file when creating a file is the name he gives the file (applicaitons not withstanding). Sometimes I want to use bak or working as my extension or whatever I want. That's my choice.
ok i did not see the "in" of "in appropriate in" which maybe would have better formatted with "in-appropriate in"
sorry
On Thursday 09 January 2014 18:34:15 Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 09.01.2014 18:05, schrieb Eli Wapniarski:
It is in appropriate in Linux / Unix to think for a user
????
it is *not* it is the *Apple* way to override the user and not the Linux one if i want the Apple way i go out and buy a Mac
it is appropriate in Linux / Unix that *the user* thinks and
if I enter the complete filename already *with* the extension it's completly ludicrous that a second extension is added and to make it as laughable as possible the .txt is not predicatable aded, for some extensios yes and for others not
If a user wants to create a file without an extension then that's their prerogative. If they do then they can give it any extension they want.
and for random extensions you need to rename the file after you created it - the rename dialog is smarter and selects only the basename while with CTRL+A you select the complete name including the extension
On Thursday 09 January 2014 03:00:55 Reindl Harald wrote:
KDE 4.12, Konqueror
context menu -> create file -> plaintext -> "testfile" fine -> a file with the name "testfile" is created
context menu -> create file -> plaintext -> "testfile.crt" WTF -> a file with the name "testfile.crt.txt" is created
context menu -> create file -> plaintext -> "testfile.key" WTF -> a file with the name "testfile.key.txt" is created
this is *not* microsoft windows i thought :-(
A lesson to me. Don't respond to mailing lists when my brain feels like mush.
I apologize for misunderstanding the gist of this thread. In Dolphin the create file function is dependent upon standard mime types. You can always rename the file if you have a specific function for the txt file. That is crt or csv or whatever.
But when you create a "text" file it is normally understood as a txt file.
Thats how things have evolved. If that sounds lame... well you'll have to take it up with the rest of the world.
:/
Eli
On Thursday 09 January 2014 18:34:15 Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 09.01.2014 18:05, schrieb Eli Wapniarski:
It is in appropriate in Linux / Unix to think for a user
????
it is *not* it is the *Apple* way to override the user and not the Linux one if i want the Apple way i go out and buy a Mac
it is appropriate in Linux / Unix that *the user* thinks and
if I enter the complete filename already *with* the extension it's completly ludicrous that a second extension is added and to make it as laughable as possible the .txt is not predicatable aded, for some extensios yes and for others not
If a user wants to create a file without an extension then that's their prerogative. If they do then they can give it any extension they want.
and for random extensions you need to rename the file after you created it - the rename dialog is smarter and selects only the basename while with CTRL+A you select the complete name including the extension
On Thursday 09 January 2014 03:00:55 Reindl Harald wrote:
KDE 4.12, Konqueror
context menu -> create file -> plaintext -> "testfile" fine -> a file with the name "testfile" is created
context menu -> create file -> plaintext -> "testfile.crt" WTF -> a file with the name "testfile.crt.txt" is created
context menu -> create file -> plaintext -> "testfile.key" WTF -> a file with the name "testfile.key.txt" is created
this is *not* microsoft windows i thought :-(
Eli Wapniarski wrote:
Thats how things have evolved. If that sounds lame... well you'll have to take it up with the rest of the world.
… or get used to Krusader, where "New file" just creates an empty (0-byte) file without adding any extension and by default opens it immediately in the builtin text editor.
Krusader is just generally the better file manager for power users than Dolphin, and Konqueror's file management mode has unfortunately become little more than a shell around Dolphin.
Kevin Kofler
Am 09.01.2014 21:01, schrieb Kevin Kofler:
Eli Wapniarski wrote:
Thats how things have evolved. If that sounds lame... well you'll have to take it up with the rest of the world.
… or get used to Krusader, where "New file" just creates an empty (0-byte) file without adding any extension and by default opens it immediately in the builtin text editor.
Krusader is just generally the better file manager for power users than Dolphin, and Konqueror's file management mode has unfortunately become little more than a shell around Dolphin.
if it would not cache a lot of informations on remote filesystems which is sad if more people work in the sam folder and reload is ignored repeatly (obviously including permissions)
my co-developer is using still krusader and has his daily angry minutes while i had never such issues with Konqueror
besdies i hate the 2-window-style aka norton commander
however - i talk about *general* behavior and especially about *folder view* - real world example as i write the OP
* Thawte confirmed a new SSL certificate * the website has 3 textfields * 2 intermediate certificates * the certifiate itself * right-click on the desktop -> new textfile -> enter "hostname.crt" -> get "hostname.crt.txt"
in such cases you are far far away from whatever filemanager and power-tools these are *basic* tasks
Is this specific to KDE 4.12? I can't seem to reproduce it with KDE 4.11 with either Dolphin or Konqueror.
I vaguely remember having the same or a similar problem some time back and a KDE bug report about it.
Anyway, rather than argue here, I think one should file a bug report with KDE. That'd be more useful to have this resolved.
On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 1:52 AM, Reindl Harald h.reindl@thelounge.netwrote:
Am 09.01.2014 21:01, schrieb Kevin Kofler:
Eli Wapniarski wrote:
Thats how things have evolved. If that sounds lame... well you'll have
to
take it up with the rest of the world.
… or get used to Krusader, where "New file" just creates an empty
(0-byte)
file without adding any extension and by default opens it immediately in
the
builtin text editor.
Krusader is just generally the better file manager for power users than Dolphin, and Konqueror's file management mode has unfortunately become little more than a shell around Dolphin.
if it would not cache a lot of informations on remote filesystems which is sad if more people work in the sam folder and reload is ignored repeatly (obviously including permissions)
my co-developer is using still krusader and has his daily angry minutes while i had never such issues with Konqueror
besdies i hate the 2-window-style aka norton commander
however - i talk about *general* behavior and especially about *folder view* - real world example as i write the OP
- Thawte confirmed a new SSL certificate
- the website has 3 textfields
- 2 intermediate certificates
- the certifiate itself
- right-click on the desktop -> new textfile -> enter "hostname.crt" ->
get "hostname.crt.txt"
in such cases you are far far away from whatever filemanager and power-tools these are *basic* tasks
kde mailing list kde@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/kde New to KDE4? - get help from http://userbase.kde.org
On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 5:43 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
but the point is that create a new file with the context-menu must not add any extension if one is already given and since we are talking about a unix-system there is no need for an extension at all, in case of no extension .txt is *not* added
finally that means there is some fuzzy-logic which must not be there
While I agree with you, I believe that this mailing list is not the best place to raise this issue. Don't shoot the messenger.
It feels like the person who coded this "fuzzy logic" has a talent of anticipating user intention. And yes, this kind of talent is easier to encounter in the Windows world. I personally don't enjoy software that is trying to outsmart me.
Orcan
I found that old bug report: https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=295490
It used to add ".desktop" to the new filename. But the root cause seems different from the current problem. So these may not be related.
Syam
On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 9:03 AM, Orcan Ogetbil oget.fedora@gmail.comwrote:
On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 5:43 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
but the point is that create a new file with the context-menu must not add any extension if one is already given and since we are talking about a unix-system there is no need for an extension at all, in case of no extension .txt is *not* added
finally that means there is some fuzzy-logic which must not be there
While I agree with you, I believe that this mailing list is not the best place to raise this issue. Don't shoot the messenger.
It feels like the person who coded this "fuzzy logic" has a talent of anticipating user intention. And yes, this kind of talent is easier to encounter in the Windows world. I personally don't enjoy software that is trying to outsmart me.
Orcan _______________________________________________ kde mailing list kde@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/kde New to KDE4? - get help from http://userbase.kde.org
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