5:03 a.m.
Hi folks,
recently OpenSource.com published an article of mine explaining why users should
take the extra step to submit a bug:
http://opensource.com/business/13/10/user-guide-bugs-open-source-projects
It is based on real event, which happened to me during Fedora test days last
month. The comments after the article are very interesting. Please take a look
at them.
Re-reading my article and comments today got me thinking if we need to change
something wrt Bugzilla. It appears that users may be having difficulties with
it. Any ideas, comments, rants?
Thanks,
Alex
5:12 a.m.
On 11/01/2013 10:03 AM, Alexander Todorov wrote:
Hi folks,
recently OpenSource.com published an article of mine explaining why
users should take the extra step to submit a bug:
http://opensource.com/business/13/10/user-guide-bugs-open-source-projects
It is based on real event, which happened to me during Fedora test
days last month. The comments after the article are very interesting.
Please take a look at them.
Re-reading my article and comments today got me thinking if we need to
change something wrt Bugzilla. It appears that users may be having
difficulties with it. Any ideas, comments, rants?
There is nothing in that area that is not already known or trying to be
addressed.
JBG
10:41 a.m.
On Fri, 01 Nov 2013 12:51:24 +0200
Alexander Todorov <atodorov(a)redhat.com> wrote:
На 1.11.2013 12:12, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" написа:
> There is nothing in that area that is not already known or trying
> to be addressed.
>
I'm not aware of how are we trying to address this, can you point me
to some wiki pages, proposals, etc?
I assume that he's referring to the proposal/discussion around
migrating to a fedora-specific bug tracker
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/infrastructure/2013-September/0...
There is also a wiki page that was tossing around the idea:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure_Fedora_bug_tracker
I'm not personally aware of any initiatives to make bug filing any
easier for newcomers, though. Maybe Johann knows of something
different, though.
Tim
12:14 p.m.
On Fri, 01 Nov 2013 10:12:32 +0000
"Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" <johannbg(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 11/01/2013 10:03 AM, Alexander Todorov wrote:
> Hi folks,
> recently OpenSource.com published an article of mine explaining why
> users should take the extra step to submit a bug:
> http://opensource.com/business/13/10/user-guide-bugs-open-source-projects
>
>
> It is based on real event, which happened to me during Fedora test
> days last month. The comments after the article are very
> interesting. Please take a look at them.
>
>
> Re-reading my article and comments today got me thinking if we need
> to change something wrt Bugzilla. It appears that users may be
> having difficulties with it. Any ideas, comments, rants?
There is nothing in that area that is not already known or trying to
be addressed.
Apologies if this comes across as me picking on you specifically but one
of the articles linked from the one Alex wrote was:
http://opensource.com/life/12/3/its-scary-join-open-source-project
I'm not saying that Alex is new, but you could have elaborated a
bit more or at least been a bit less dismissive in your tone.
"be excellent to each other"
Tim
2:03 p.m.
I think that some of the problem is that you have to register to file a
bug. There is no reason to register if you just want the developer to know
there is a bug and from then on no interaction unless needed.
I understand why there is a need to be able to contact the reporter and ask
for more info, but that can be done by getting your email. If more info is
needed then the system can send mail for more info or something.
BTW, on the page of infrastructure fedora bug tracker I saw there is a need
for perl hackers, I know some perl and want to contribute.
Moshe
On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 7:14 PM, Tim Flink <tflink(a)redhat.com> wrote:
On Fri, 01 Nov 2013 10:12:32 +0000
"Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" <johannbg(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 11/01/2013 10:03 AM, Alexander Todorov wrote:
> > Hi folks,
> > recently OpenSource.com published an article of mine explaining why
> > users should take the extra step to submit a bug:
> >
http://opensource.com/business/13/10/user-guide-bugs-open-source-projects
> >
> >
> > It is based on real event, which happened to me during Fedora test
> > days last month. The comments after the article are very
> > interesting. Please take a look at them.
> >
> >
> > Re-reading my article and comments today got me thinking if we need
> > to change something wrt Bugzilla. It appears that users may be
> > having difficulties with it. Any ideas, comments, rants?
>
> There is nothing in that area that is not already known or trying to
> be addressed.
Apologies if this comes across as me picking on you specifically but one
of the articles linked from the one Alex wrote was:
http://opensource.com/life/12/3/its-scary-join-open-source-project
I'm not saying that Alex is new, but you could have elaborated a
bit more or at least been a bit less dismissive in your tone.
"be excellent to each other"
Tim
--
test mailing list
test(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/test
4:37 a.m.
На 1.11.2013 21:03, moshe nahmias написа:
I think that some of the problem is that you have to register to file
a
bug. There is no reason to register if you just want the developer to know
there is a bug and from then on no interaction unless needed.
How about enabling login(register) via social networking sites ? AFAIK all of
them but LinkedIn and Twitter make it easy to access the account name and email.
Registering will be as simple as clicking on a button to let you in.
--
Alex
6:32 a.m.
On 11/04/2013 10:37 AM, Alexander Todorov wrote:
На 1.11.2013 21:03, moshe nahmias написа:
> I think that some of the problem is that you have to register to file a
> bug. There is no reason to register if you just want the developer to
> know
> there is a bug and from then on no interaction unless needed.
How about enabling login(register) via social networking sites ? AFAIK
all of them but LinkedIn and Twitter make it easy to access the
account name and email. Registering will be as simple as clicking on a
button to let you in.
I'm pretty sure the security team as well as RH bugzilla admin will
frown upon that.
JBG
5:53 p.m.
On Mon, 2013-11-04 at 12:32 +0000, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote:
On 11/04/2013 10:37 AM, Alexander Todorov wrote:
> На 1.11.2013 21:03, moshe nahmias написа:
>> I think that some of the problem is that you have to register to file a
>> bug. There is no reason to register if you just want the developer to
>> know
>> there is a bug and from then on no interaction unless needed.
>
>
> How about enabling login(register) via social networking sites ? AFAIK
> all of them but LinkedIn and Twitter make it easy to access the
> account name and email. Registering will be as simple as clicking on a
> button to let you in.
I'm pretty sure the security team as well as RH bugzilla admin will
frown upon that.
Right. This is ultimately a well-known pain point we've had for years.
Sharing a bug tracking system with almost all RH products leads to
various compromises. There are choices we might want to make for Fedora
bug reporting which we can't make in a system shared with a bunch of RH
products, which includes all of the stuff discussed so far in this
thread and the comment thread, including sign-up-free-submission, more
simple submission, and SSO. We would love to have SSO to Bugzilla with
your FAS credentials, but AIUI it is basically impossible as long as
we're operating on the BZ instance shared with RH.
However, the RH shared BZ is not _enough_ of a pain point that anyone's
willing to make a plausible case for replacing it with an entirely
separate Fedora-specific bug tracker, which would be a massive amount of
work. It's clear that some benefits would accrue from doing so, but
no-one has been able to make the case to any entity with the resources
to actually do it that it would be worth their while investing those
resources in that project.
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net
http://www.happyassassin.net
12:12 p.m.
On Fri, 01 Nov 2013 12:03:51 +0200
Alexander Todorov <atodorov(a)redhat.com> wrote:
Hi folks,
recently OpenSource.com published an article of mine explaining why
users should take the extra step to submit a bug:
http://opensource.com/business/13/10/user-guide-bugs-open-source-projects
It is based on real event, which happened to me during Fedora test
days last month. The comments after the article are very interesting.
Please take a look at them.
Re-reading my article and comments today got me thinking if we need
to change something wrt Bugzilla. It appears that users may be having
difficulties with it. Any ideas, comments, rants?
I'm not sure what the solution is but it reminds me of a conversation I
had last week with a friend who considers himself to be not very
technical.
We were talking about a game that's currently in alpha, but available
for pre-purchase and accepting bug reports in a forum (pretty much how
steam for linux was when they were still in beta). I made a comment
about how I didn't understand why people would use a web forum for bug
reports because it's difficult to search for duplicates, know what's
been filed against each component among other things.
This led into an interesting discussion about community interaction
from a users' perspective. He said didn't know how to use bug trackers
and while it wasn't stated explicitly, I got the impression that it
would take a lot of motivation to change that. He also asserted that it
was important for people who can answer questions to participate in
forums and systems like ask which users seem to prefer over our usual
mailing lists and IRC (I mentioned that I dislike using stuff like ask
because of its user interface).
I'm hoping that hyperkitty will enable a middle ground that both camps
(the people who prefer mailing lists and the people who prefer web
interfaces) are willing to use so there's less of a divide, but for bug
trackers ... I'm not sure what the exact problem is, much less
any possible solutions. Is it the user interface to systems like
bugzilla, or is it more of an intimidation factor about how devs might
respond to a report?
Anyhow, this is more anecdote than anything but I thought that I would
share because I found it interesting.
Tim
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participants (5)
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Adam Williamson -
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Jóhann B. Guðmundsson -
moshe nahmias -
Tim Flink