3:57 p.m.
Greetings folks,
As mentioned in the meeting earlier this week [1] I have been reviewing
the Fedora 13 QA retrospective feedback. Thanks to all who contributed!
We have a really solid list of things to build on for Fedora 14.
I have organized the feedback into a series of recommendations for
Fedora 14. Please take a moment to review the list at
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_13_QA_Retrospective#Recommendations. The majority
of recommendations are items QA can own, while there are a few points where action from
other teams would be needed.
Please note, this list is not intended to capture *everything* the QA
team needs to do for Fedora 14. The main focus is to associate the
problems and pain points of Fedora 13 with action plans for the upcoming
release. Additionally, there were several interesting project ideas
captured in the feedback. Not all of those ideas made it to the
recommendations due to time/resources. However, I do need to move them
into our project idea bucket [2].
Much like we did after Fedora 12, I'll be asking folks for help working
through the recommendations. Ideally this list will serve as a set of
tasks available to anyone interested in helping improve the next
release. Quick, this is first come first serve! :)
Thanks,
James
[1] http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/test/2010-June/091514.html
[2] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA:Summer_of_Code_Ideas
4:24 p.m.
On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 16:57 -0400, James Laska wrote:
Much like we did after Fedora 12, I'll be asking folks for help
working
through the recommendations. Ideally this list will serve as a set of
tasks available to anyone interested in helping improve the next
release. Quick, this is first come first serve! :)
"Basic video driver". Man, can I just delete that damn thing already?
It'd be one less thing to test...
- ajax
4:32 p.m.
On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 17:24 -0400, Adam Jackson wrote:
On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 16:57 -0400, James Laska wrote:
> Much like we did after Fedora 12, I'll be asking folks for help working
> through the recommendations. Ideally this list will serve as a set of
> tasks available to anyone interested in helping improve the next
> release. Quick, this is first come first serve! :)
"Basic video driver". Man, can I just delete that damn thing already?
It'd be one less thing to test...
I'd really rather not, it's still necessary in quite a lot of cases. My
laptop, fr'instance, where intel or nouveau (or both, depending which
graphics adapter you select) will cheerfully try to load, but fail
miserably and leave the system non-functional. I'd much rather get a
full install with VESA than a minimal text install, which would be my
only option if you killed 'basic video driver' install.
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org
http://www.happyassassin.net
8:48 a.m.
On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 14:32 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 17:24 -0400, Adam Jackson wrote:
> On Wed, 2010-06-16 at 16:57 -0400, James Laska wrote:
>
> > Much like we did after Fedora 12, I'll be asking folks for help working
> > through the recommendations. Ideally this list will serve as a set of
> > tasks available to anyone interested in helping improve the next
> > release. Quick, this is first come first serve! :)
>
> "Basic video driver". Man, can I just delete that damn thing already?
> It'd be one less thing to test...
I'd really rather not, it's still necessary in quite a lot of cases. My
laptop, fr'instance, where intel or nouveau (or both, depending which
graphics adapter you select) will cheerfully try to load, but fail
miserably and leave the system non-functional. I'd much rather get a
full install with VESA than a minimal text install, which would be my
only option if you killed 'basic video driver' install.
Do people really not do VNC installs?
- ajax
9:22 a.m.
Adam Jackson wrote:
Do people really not do VNC installs?
I don't. It would require you to have two computers and a working
network. Yes, I have an N900 now that I could use, but I'm not always
guaranteed a wireless network.
Also, if you have a brand new system, the network driver may not be in
kernel so that would rule out VNC altogether. I've run into this on
several occasions. I'm speaking of wired networks here. Wireless would
be even more prone to not have a working driver.
9:29 a.m.
Once upon a time, Adam Jackson <ajax(a)redhat.com> said:
Do people really not do VNC installs?
On a server? Sometimes. On a desktop or notebook? Nope, never. I
only have one desktop on my desk, so how would I connect to VNC?
--
Chris Adams <cmadams(a)hiwaay.net>
Systems and Network Administrator - HiWAAY Internet Services
I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.
10:05 a.m.
On Thu, 2010-06-24 at 09:48 -0400, Adam Jackson wrote:
> I'd really rather not, it's still necessary in quite a
lot of cases. My
> laptop, fr'instance, where intel or nouveau (or both, depending which
> graphics adapter you select) will cheerfully try to load, but fail
> miserably and leave the system non-functional. I'd much rather get a
> full install with VESA than a minimal text install, which would be my
> only option if you killed 'basic video driver' install.
Do people really not do VNC installs?
I don't think it's particularly common. It's certainly not as evident a
choice as 'basic video driver', and if you don't use VNC regularly
anyway it's not necessarily going to pop into your mind as an obvious
option. And not everyone has two machines handy at all times.
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org
http://www.happyassassin.net
10:09 a.m.
On Thu, 2010-06-24 at 08:05 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Thu, 2010-06-24 at 09:48 -0400, Adam Jackson wrote:
> > I'd really rather not, it's still necessary in quite a lot of cases.
My
> > laptop, fr'instance, where intel or nouveau (or both, depending which
> > graphics adapter you select) will cheerfully try to load, but fail
> > miserably and leave the system non-functional. I'd much rather get a
> > full install with VESA than a minimal text install, which would be my
> > only option if you killed 'basic video driver' install.
>
> Do people really not do VNC installs?
I don't think it's particularly common. It's certainly not as evident a
choice as 'basic video driver', and if you don't use VNC regularly
anyway it's not necessarily going to pop into your mind as an obvious
option. And not everyone has two machines handy at all times.
the vnc install is excellent for server installs - but that's mostly
just for monitoring a kickstart - not for involved use (at least that's
been my experience)
-sv
10:47 a.m.
On Thu, 2010-06-24 at 08:05 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Thu, 2010-06-24 at 09:48 -0400, Adam Jackson wrote:
> > I'd really rather not, it's still necessary in quite a lot of cases.
My
> > laptop, fr'instance, where intel or nouveau (or both, depending which
> > graphics adapter you select) will cheerfully try to load, but fail
> > miserably and leave the system non-functional. I'd much rather get a
> > full install with VESA than a minimal text install, which would be my
> > only option if you killed 'basic video driver' install.
>
> Do people really not do VNC installs?
I don't think it's particularly common. It's certainly not as evident a
choice as 'basic video driver', and if you don't use VNC regularly
anyway it's not necessarily going to pop into your mind as an obvious
option. And not everyone has two machines handy at all times.
The installer does prompt you to try VNC instead of text mode. It
should probably do so before attempting to launch X with vesa.
I'm just saying, if KMS doesn't work, I don't even attempt vesa, I just
go straight to VNC. Maybe I'm too close to the implementation, in that
I know all the ways vesa won't work (Xen guests, things that aren't PCs,
EFI machines, any of the five thousand x86 emulator bugs...). But I
don't understand trying something that could fail before trying
something that'll definitely work.
- ajax
11:05 a.m.
On Thu, 2010-06-24 at 11:47 -0400, Adam Jackson wrote:
I'm just saying, if KMS doesn't work, I don't even
attempt vesa, I just
go straight to VNC. Maybe I'm too close to the implementation, in that
I know all the ways vesa won't work (Xen guests, things that aren't PCs,
EFI machines, any of the five thousand x86 emulator bugs...). But I
don't understand trying something that could fail before trying
something that'll definitely work.
I think you're right, in that you're too close to the process. Probably
if people considered it a straight choice between VNC and vesa, they're
comfortable with using VNC, and they have the necessary hardware
(another PC) handy, sure, VNC is the sensible choice. But those
conditions don't always prevail, as the replies suggested :)
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org
http://www.happyassassin.net
12:45 p.m.
On Thu, Jun 24, 2010 at 9:47 AM, Adam Jackson <ajax(a)redhat.com> wrote:
On Thu, 2010-06-24 at 08:05 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-06-24 at 09:48 -0400, Adam Jackson wrote:
>
> > > I'd really rather not, it's still necessary in quite a lot of
cases. My
> > > laptop, fr'instance, where intel or nouveau (or both, depending which
> > > graphics adapter you select) will cheerfully try to load, but fail
> > > miserably and leave the system non-functional. I'd much rather get a
> > > full install with VESA than a minimal text install, which would be my
> > > only option if you killed 'basic video driver' install.
> >
> > Do people really not do VNC installs?
>
> I don't think it's particularly common. It's certainly not as evident a
> choice as 'basic video driver', and if you don't use VNC regularly
> anyway it's not necessarily going to pop into your mind as an obvious
> option. And not everyone has two machines handy at all times.
The installer does prompt you to try VNC instead of text mode. It
should probably do so before attempting to launch X with vesa.
I'm just saying, if KMS doesn't work, I don't even attempt vesa, I just
go straight to VNC. Maybe I'm too close to the implementation, in that
I know all the ways vesa won't work (Xen guests, things that aren't PCs,
EFI machines, any of the five thousand x86 emulator bugs...). But I
don't understand trying something that could fail before trying
something that'll definitely work.
I am guessing the failure to use VNC probably comes down to:
1) Does the person have another computer that they can use VNC from
(or is this there sole box)
2) What does 15 years of RHL/Fedora documentation say to use if you
are an old hand (or if you use google to debug something)
3) Is an unencrypted VNC going to be allowed on your local network or
going to cause any sorts of 'issues' (this is more of a corporate/gov
thing).
When we had installs working over just plain X in the past #1 and #2
came up the most on testers as stuff they didn't do. #3 came up from
people who thought it was the same as telneting into the system to do
an install or had various NIDS systems that looked for VNC as a hacker
tool.
Do we ship windows or mac versions of the VNC tool so that if I have a
seperate system running something else I can use it?
--
Stephen J Smoogen.
“The core skill of innovators is error recovery, not failure avoidance.”
Randy Nelson, President of Pixar University.
"We have a strategic plan. It's called doing things.""
— Herb Kelleher, founder Southwest Airlines
10:26 a.m.
On Thu, 2010-06-24 at 10:24 -0500, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote:
>>>>> "AJ" == Adam Jackson
<ajax(a)redhat.com> writes:
AJ> Do people really not do VNC installs?
Since everyone else is chiming in... I have never done anything other
than VNC installs. I'm not even sure what a regular install looks like.
It looks like VNC - except on the monitor that the machine has connected
directly. :)
-sv
12:21 p.m.
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On 6/24/10 8:26 AM, seth vidal wrote:
On Thu, 2010-06-24 at 10:24 -0500, Jason L Tibbitts III wrote:
>>>>>> "AJ" == Adam Jackson <ajax(a)redhat.com> writes:
>
> AJ> Do people really not do VNC installs?
>
> Since everyone else is chiming in... I have never done anything other
> than VNC installs. I'm not even sure what a regular install looks like.
It looks like VNC - except on the monitor that the machine has connected
directly. :)
-sv
Almost. A regular install won't have the text mode stage1 prompts,
it'll jump straight to the gui and do some of the network bring up in a
graphical fashion.
- --
Jesse Keating
Fedora -- Freedom² is a feature!
identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating
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8:32 p.m.
On 06/24/2010 01:48 PM, Adam Jackson wrote:
Do people really not do VNC installs?
Floppy/Cdrom/DVD/USB/.. I have even removed HD put it another machine
and performed the frackin install all due to some bloated memory
requirements in Anaconda put them back in the machine. On servers I use
kickstart ( and I monitor the installation process via serial ) but
never done a VNC install in my entire life and I'm not about to start
doing that and I dont know anyone that actually does that or even has tried.
JBG
12:25 a.m.
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On 6/24/10 6:32 PM, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote:
On 06/24/2010 01:48 PM, Adam Jackson wrote:
> Do people really not do VNC installs?
>
Floppy/Cdrom/DVD/USB/.. I have even removed HD put it another machine
and performed the frackin install all due to some bloated memory
requirements in Anaconda put them back in the machine. On servers I use
kickstart ( and I monitor the installation process via serial ) but
never done a VNC install in my entire life and I'm not about to start
doing that and I dont know anyone that actually does that or even has tried.
JBG
Why so hostile? VNC installs just allow you to do the GUI install, but
export the graphics to a second computer over the network. It is very
useful.
- --
Jesse Keating
Fedora -- Freedom² is a feature!
identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating
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15 comments
10 participants
participants (10)
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Adam Jackson -
Adam Williamson -
Chris Adams -
James Laska -
Jason L Tibbitts III -
Jesse Keating -
Jóhann B. Guðmundsson -
Michael Cronenworth -
Seth Vidal -
Stephen John Smoogen