8:49 p.m.
Hi Folks,
There are a lot of well-intended people here, so allow me to suggest a
more organized approach towards the subject matter, then we can optimize
our resources.
Let start from the beginning! We gotta be able to respond some basic
questions:
1) APPEALS: what are FC's appeals?
reduced IT costs (software, hardware), collaborative work philosophy,
reliability, bleeding-edge technology...., reducing digital divide....
Who can benefit from these?
2) TARGET: who should we promote FC to?
There might be two or more different audiences here, interested in
different sort of benefits i.e. developing countries decision makers,
the computer-savvy masses, secondary school, lobbyists, IT students....
What do we know about them?
If we have more than one defined audience, we might consider splitting
the next questions, and having different strategies for each.
3) OPPORTUNITIES to meet with target(s) in appealing occasions: local
user groups meetings, events, partnerships with universities, seminars,
open source projects, govmt events, etc
Questions: What are the commonalities between "the opportunity" and FC?
How do we relate FC with "the opportunity" goals?
Leverage from there, focusing on the answers for the questions above,
and elaborating "tailor-made" material for event.
4) FEDORA-MKTG ORG: a bit of a brainstorming here...
Obviously, we cannot centralize everything to cover the globe, so maybe
CMCs can create their little organizations, specially dedicated to their
markets.
Local CMCs can organize an effective FC presence in local events in
advance, so we make sure they get enough material (as mentioned in an
earlier email); can also talk to universities, distribute FC LiveCDs,
invite more people to take part on open source projects, talk to
teachers......organize LUGs....
Responsibilities can be shared among local organizations i.e. one looks
after events, another looks after local universities, a third might
lobby with govmt, a fourth might look after the Fedora users website in
his language...
Let's take the collaborative work spirit to the Marketing field!
Thoughts?
--
David Barzilay
Brazilian Portuguese
Technical Translator
Red Hat Asia-Pacific
4:20 a.m.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
David Barzilay wrote:
There are a lot of well-intended people here, so allow me to suggest
a
more organized approach towards the subject matter, then we can optimize
our resources.
Let's take the collaborative work spirit to the Marketing field!
http://live.gnome.org/MarketingTeam - some ideas can be adopted :)
Rgds
Sankarshan
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.6 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Red Hat - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iD8DBQFDVL52+g4kmZ76nyERAkJmAJ9ZtKkjAyYnkVbWxGX9Zp1hb18ntACfdsgu
ILEhgrPWxPEXLGUDN2IDfDU=
=iDp+
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
9:35 a.m.
Ah, I love talking about ideas. :) Comments inline.
On Tue, 18 Oct 2005, David Barzilay wrote:
Hi Folks,
There are a lot of well-intended people here, so allow me to suggest a
more organized approach towards the subject matter, then we can optimize
our resources.
Let start from the beginning! We gotta be able to respond some basic
questions:
1) APPEALS: what are FC's appeals?
reduced IT costs (software, hardware), collaborative work philosophy,
reliability, bleeding-edge technology...., reducing digital divide....
Who can benefit from these?
2) TARGET: who should we promote FC to?
There might be two or more different audiences here, interested in
different sort of benefits i.e. developing countries decision makers,
the computer-savvy masses, secondary school, lobbyists, IT students....
What do we know about them?
If we have more than one defined audience, we might consider splitting
the next questions, and having different strategies for each.
3) OPPORTUNITIES to meet with target(s) in appealing occasions: local
user groups meetings, events, partnerships with universities, seminars,
open source projects, govmt events, etc
Questions: What are the commonalities between "the opportunity" and FC?
How do we relate FC with "the opportunity" goals?
Leverage from there, focusing on the answers for the questions above,
and elaborating "tailor-made" material for event.
I believe in this, but I think we're putting the cart before the horse
when we talk about tailor-made collateral. We need a good set of
multi-purpose collateral. And we need to get started on this yesterday.
:)
/me puts his collateral-writing-hat on...
4) FEDORA-MKTG ORG: a bit of a brainstorming here...
Obviously, we cannot centralize everything to cover the globe, so maybe
CMCs can create their little organizations, specially dedicated to their
markets.
Local CMCs can organize an effective FC presence in local events in
advance, so we make sure they get enough material (as mentioned in an
earlier email); can also talk to universities, distribute FC LiveCDs,
invite more people to take part on open source projects, talk to
teachers......organize LUGs....
Responsibilities can be shared among local organizations i.e. one looks
after events, another looks after local universities, a third might
lobby with govmt, a fourth might look after the Fedora users website in
his language...
Yeah. My concern is that we're putting a lot of weight on the shoulders
of the CMCs without giving them much direction. So we need to discuss
what we expect out of CMCs, and give them the tools that they'll need to
fulfill these expectations.
At a very basic level, this is:
* Go to LUGs
+ And say what when they get there?
* Go to tradeshows
+ Running a booth is hard work!
* Pass out Fedora DVDs, and maybe collateral;
+ And where do they get that stuff?
* Recruit;
+ For what projects?
* Represent.
+ Represent what message?
Let's take the collaborative work spirit to the Marketing field!
Thoughts?
--
David Barzilay
Brazilian Portuguese
Technical Translator
Red Hat Asia-Pacific
--
Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
Fedora-marketing-list(a)redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
_____________________ ____________________________________________
Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have
Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the
Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the
] [ dumb. --mcluhan
10:10 p.m.
A few comments of mine below...
On Tue, 2005-10-18 at 10:35 -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
Ah, I love talking about ideas. :) Comments inline.
On Tue, 18 Oct 2005, David Barzilay wrote:
> Hi Folks,
>
> There are a lot of well-intended people here, so allow me to suggest a
> more organized approach towards the subject matter, then we can optimize
> our resources.
>
> Let start from the beginning! We gotta be able to respond some basic
> questions:
>
> 1) APPEALS: what are FC's appeals?
> reduced IT costs (software, hardware), collaborative work philosophy,
> reliability, bleeding-edge technology...., reducing digital divide....
>
> Who can benefit from these?
>
> 2) TARGET: who should we promote FC to?
> There might be two or more different audiences here, interested in
> different sort of benefits i.e. developing countries decision makers,
> the computer-savvy masses, secondary school, lobbyists, IT students....
>
> What do we know about them?
>
> If we have more than one defined audience, we might consider splitting
> the next questions, and having different strategies for each.
>
> 3) OPPORTUNITIES to meet with target(s) in appealing occasions: local
> user groups meetings, events, partnerships with universities, seminars,
> open source projects, govmt events, etc
>
> Questions: What are the commonalities between "the opportunity" and FC?
> How do we relate FC with "the opportunity" goals?
> Leverage from there, focusing on the answers for the questions above,
> and elaborating "tailor-made" material for event.
I believe in this, but I think we're putting the cart before the horse
when we talk about tailor-made collateral.
Of course this would be a step further. That's exactly why I numbered
some previous actions above.
We need a good set of
multi-purpose collateral. And we need to get started on this yesterday.
:)
Hang on.... where's the horse?
Sorry, but I think we need to discuss the strategy that will nurture and
empower all communication and marketing actions before, then decide on
best media to accomplish it...
So why don't we start discussing marketing strategy before media
production (i.e. FC LiveCD, mktg material...)
Can you help me with these:
. What are the goals of fedora-marketing?
. Who are we approaching?
. How are we approaching the different audiences?
. Then: what are the best marketing and communication actions to
approach these?
/me puts his collateral-writing-hat on...
> 4) FEDORA-MKTG ORG: a bit of a brainstorming here...
> Obviously, we cannot centralize everything to cover the globe, so maybe
> CMCs can create their little organizations, specially dedicated to their
> markets.
>
> Local CMCs can organize an effective FC presence in local events in
> advance, so we make sure they get enough material (as mentioned in an
> earlier email); can also talk to universities, distribute FC LiveCDs,
> invite more people to take part on open source projects, talk to
> teachers......organize LUGs....
>
> Responsibilities can be shared among local organizations i.e. one looks
> after events, another looks after local universities, a third might
> lobby with govmt, a fourth might look after the Fedora users website in
> his language...
Yeah. My concern is that we're putting a lot of weight on the shoulders
of the CMCs without giving them much direction. So we need to discuss
what we expect out of CMCs, and give them the tools that they'll need to
fulfill these expectations.
Agreed! CMCs can also "recruit" other Fedora enthusiasts in their market
to share the weight...
At a very basic level, this is:
* Go to LUGs
+ And say what when they get there?
* Go to tradeshows
+ Running a booth is hard work!
* Pass out Fedora DVDs, and maybe collateral;
+ And where do they get that stuff?
* Recruit;
+ For what projects?
* Represent.
+ Represent what message?
As stated before, I do believe that's the time for a proper and
professional marketing approach. We got a bunch of community folks eager
to make it happen, but our response cannot be that slow anymore!
Otherwise, Ubuntu (which has been doing some very smart marketing
actions) will beat FC...
> Let's take the collaborative work spirit to the Marketing
field!
10:35 p.m.
On Wed, 19 Oct 2005, David Barzilay wrote:
Can you help me with these:
. What are the goals of fedora-marketing?
To come up with ways of encouraging use of, and *participation in*, Fedora
projects. Dead simple.
. Who are we approaching?
Anyone who's standing in a crowd of three or more people, and doesn't
break eye contact with us when we approach them. Like bums, or Amway
salesmen.
. How are we approaching the different audiences?
. Then: what are the best marketing and communication actions to
approach these?
I don't even think we're at the market segmentation phase. I think we're
still at the *basic* messaging phase.
See, here's the problem: we're immersed in Fedora, so we make basic
assumptions about other people's knowledge that is just wrong. We assume
everyone knows that Fedora has this great technical backing and lineage,
and they don't. We assume everyone knows that Fedora is libre now and
forever, and they don't. We assume everyone knows that Fedora comes out
every six months or so, and they don't. We assume everyone knows that
Fedora is the most "secure and yet usable" operating system ever invented
by man, and they don't. They really don't. What they *think* they know,
when they know anything, is that Fedora is what Red Hat shat out when they
turned into the debbil.
Anyway, we need a better FAQ that is well-positioned and well-advertised.
I'm working on it late nights these days, because it's pretty much the
most important thing we can get done to start with. CMCs, trade shows,
carpet-bombing the planet with FC4 DVDs... none of it matters if Joe Blow
asks "why doesn't it play mp3s?" and we don't have a kick-ass answer at
the ready.
Agreed! CMCs can also "recruit" other Fedora enthusiasts in
their market
to share the weight...
I'm starting to thing that the term "CMC" is just not sexy enough. Not at
all. Not even close. I'm thinking "Fedora Enthusiasts" or "Fedora
Evangelists" or "Fedora Heralds" or "Fedora Messengers" or
"Fedora
Advocates" or "Fedora Champions".
Anything but "Fedora CMCs." The name flat out sucks rocks. We hates it,
precious. It burns us.
--g-->
_____________________ ____________________________________________
Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have
Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the
Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the
] [ dumb. --mcluhan
8:52 p.m.
A few more comments...
On Tue, 2005-10-18 at 23:35 -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
On Wed, 19 Oct 2005, David Barzilay wrote:
> Can you help me with these:
> . What are the goals of fedora-marketing?
To come up with ways of encouraging use of, and *participation in*, Fedora
projects. Dead simple.
I don't think is that simple. To encourage use, we might need to
approach a different set of people than the potential contributors
group.
I hate labeling people, but at this stage I see users (or potential
users) as niches of the general public, and contributors as enthusiasts
and geeks.
Unless I got the whole marketing thing wrong, and we intend to continue
approaching only the latter...
> . Who are we approaching?
Anyone who's standing in a crowd of three or more people, and doesn't
break eye contact with us when we approach them. Like bums, or Amway
salesmen.
Approaching "Anyone who's standing in a crowd of three or more people,
and doesn't break eye contact with us" might be quite broad...
How can you guide this sort of efforts on a worldwide basis?
I don't intend to discuss network marketing here, but if I follow your
vision, am I supposed to preach Fedora to all my acquaintances?
"Hey Grandma! Come to my place, bring all your friends coz I got
something reaaaaaly special to show you..."
or
"Sorry I crashed your car. Here's my business card. Gimme a call coz I
want to show you something that works for me..."
In other words, we need to narrow down the people we are approaching,
and better target our different audiences.
BTW, how does the eye contact work in an online environment?
> . How are we approaching the different audiences?
> . Then: what are the best marketing and communication actions to
> approach these?
I don't even think we're at the market segmentation phase. I think we're
still at the *basic* messaging phase.
See, here's the problem: we're immersed in Fedora, so we make basic
assumptions about other people's knowledge that is just wrong.
You got it! Why don't we stop making assumptions and take an inquisitive
approach?
7:17 a.m.
On Tue, 2005-10-18 at 23:35 -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
What they *think* they know,
when they know anything, is that Fedora is what Red Hat shat out when they
turned into the debbil.
Where's my shirt that says, "I Am Debbil Scat"?
I think I see an extremely unofficial Cafepress site coming up,
featuring that shirt and one with a scapegoat:
"Don't blame me, I'm just a scapegoat."
"Scapegoats get all the best jobs."
"It's not just for goatse anymore."
"The best part is, I'm the one who doesn't get sacrificed."
"Scapegoat -- tastes like chicken."
etc.
- Karsten
--
Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/
gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41
Red Hat SELinux Guide
http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/
10:29 a.m.
As GDK pointed out, we aren't a liberty to make a number of assumptions
about the "market". We don't have market analysts, we don't have
commercial
drivers, we don't have shareholders, we don't have the budget to engage in
any such speculation. The good news is, we aren't bound to a revenue target,
so a whole lot of work doesn't need to happen around that sort of thinking.
We also aren't at full liberty to establish markets where they commercially
compete with Red Hat, though we won't stop someone from commercializing it
in some fashion. Since our hands are mildly bound, and since we only know
*our* version of the Fedora story, all we can do is start there. And it can
be a simple message (and thusly portable and translatable), so long as being
simple is a goal.
I don't want to start another brand rant, but we can only lay out the
"promise" (what is it? what does it do? who cares?) of Fedora, the
"experience" (how it's used, and by whom) is semantic, and evolutionary
from
this starting point. We can shape and/or react to the promise, but we'll
never be able to magically anticipate it, and surely won't be able to
control it. We can't tell Fedora what to be for everyone, we can't tell
anyone what they should or shouldn't do with. We can, however, decide to
never tell it what not to be--while deciding as a group the core purpose or
*intended* use by *intended* audience.
Just as we make package choices, without inhibiting third parties from
adding/subtracting their own.
We've answered these core questions about what Fedora is, and for whom a
great number of times already on this list. Someone needs to digest it, and
make a cut we can all vote on. And somone needs to call final cut at some
point. Then, similar to the development of the logo, we can get a head of
steam going and the folks at Red Hat--who know a thing or two about
marketing Linux--can polish it up.
As for the purpose of Fedora marketing, it's to make more people use/hack
Fedora more often, so we make it better more often than it gets worse. Just
the same as that marketing in a commercial environment is to "get more
people, to buy more stuff, more often, so you make more money". That's it.
There's nothing more to it than technique.
Our metrics are the number of contributors (code, bugs, feedback, list
posts), and number of users (hackers, enthusiasts, early adopters, those
wanting insight into what RHEL might be)--which together make the target
install base--and the number of articles, reviews and how-tos written about
Fedora. That's not all the use cases and measures for Fedora, because we
don't and never should know all the use cases, anymore than Apache
foundation knows exactly what's going on on every web site running Apache.
For example, sometimes, we'll see that we are getting significant uptake in
verticals like desktop productivity, or multimedia, or LiveCD variants. Or
someone will write an article explaining how to shove Fedora onto a Mac
mini, or XBox, or pen drive. Or some teacher in Portland will start a
program targeting K12, based on Fedora. Or some VAR or IT support org will
charge folks for support, customizations or maintenance. Etc.
User driven innovation, and an eco-sysem. In other words, a lot of what made
Red Hat what it was before the RHEL/Fedora debbil scat.
Once we establish ourselves in the known universe, we have a baseline of
metrics. And we can draw up a set of benchmarks and be more inquisitive and
measure against those metrics, as well as reacting emerging segments.
--jeremy
10:50 a.m.
On Fri, 21 Oct 2005, Jeremy Hogan wrote:
We've answered these core questions about what Fedora is, and for
whom a
great number of times already on this list. Someone needs to digest it, and
make a cut we can all vote on.
This is on my plate. I hope to have something by next week's marketing
meeting.
As for the purpose of Fedora marketing, it's to make more people
use/hack
Fedora more often, so we make it better more often than it gets worse. Just
the same as that marketing in a commercial environment is to "get more
people, to buy more stuff, more often, so you make more money". That's it.
There's nothing more to it than technique.
Our metrics are the number of contributors (code, bugs, feedback, list
posts), and number of users (hackers, enthusiasts, early adopters, those
wanting insight into what RHEL might be)--which together make the target
install base--and the number of articles, reviews and how-tos written about
Fedora. That's not all the use cases and measures for Fedora, because we
don't and never should know all the use cases, anymore than Apache
foundation knows exactly what's going on on every web site running Apache.
It's probably a good idea to work on some metrics that we think are
useful. Its status on distrowatch, for instance. Pure Googlebuzz -- how
many hits on "Fedora Linux"? "Ubuntu Linux"?
User driven innovation, and an eco-sysem. In other words, a lot of
what made
Red Hat what it was before the RHEL/Fedora debbil scat.
Exactly. Hey, Jeremy, has anyone ever told you that you could do this
job? ;-)
--g
_____________________ ____________________________________________
Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have
Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the
Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the
] [ dumb. --mcluhan
11:03 a.m.
On Fri, 21 Oct 2005, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
> Our metrics are the number of contributors (code, bugs,
feedback, list
> posts), and number of users (hackers, enthusiasts, early adopters, those
> wanting insight into what RHEL might be)--which together make the target
> install base--and the number of articles, reviews and how-tos written about
> Fedora.
Any ideas on how to actually implement measurements of the number of users
and the number of articles/reviews/etc.?
Best,
-- Elliot
5:16 p.m.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Hi all!
I believe that we will need a bigger organization so that the Marketing
Fedora Worldwide has success, we will need to create a hierarchy.
Sample:
FEDORA PROJECT
Leader and Co-leader
-----------------------------------------------
| | |
SOUTH AMERICA NORTH AMERIA ASIA
Leader and Co-leader Leader and Co-leader Leader and Co-leader
| | |
-------------------- -------------------- --------------------
| | |
BRAZIL COMBIA CHILE
L and C L and C L and C
or:
FEDORA PROJECT
Leader and Co-leader
-----------------------------------------------
| | |
BRAZIL EUA FRANCE
Leader and Co-leader Leader and Co-leader Leader and Co-leader
- --
+================================================+
RODRIGO PADULA DE OLIVEIRA
(o- BACHAREL EM SISTEMAS DE INFORMAÇÃO
//\ FACULDADE METODISTA GRANBERY - FMG
V_/_
PostgreSQL - PHP - Linux
+================================================+
Membro Fundador do Gunix Linux
http://www.gunix.com.br
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iD8DBQFDWWjS8arYxsJpZ0URAllmAKCy4Bgxg3TWcmFBKLhalC6pCvHftgCfRrQg
S7VUg9Nb/zoRAov4iZoPaTk=
=6Dd4
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
10:30 a.m.
On 10/21/05, Karsten Wade <kwade(a)redhat.com> wrote:
I think I see an extremely unofficial Cafepress site coming up,
featuring that shirt and one with a scapegoat:
"Don't blame me, I'm just a scapegoat."
"Scapegoats get all the best jobs."
"It's not just for goatse anymore."
"The best part is, I'm the one who doesn't get sacrificed."
"Scapegoat -- tastes like chicken."
you want my updated svg file for my scapegoat cartoon?
-jef
6762
days inactive
6765
days old
marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org
11 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
David Barzilay -
Elliot Lee -
Greg DeKoenigsberg -
Jef Spaleta -
Jeremy Hogan -
Karsten Wade -
Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira -
Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay