If possible I would like to get some space in one of our Marketing Team meeting to introduce and discuss some topics:  * Cultural aspects in Communication - it's importance, as Fedora aims to an International Community.  * Consider what we shouldn't associate with Fedora.  * Symbology and Brand Association  * Restriction policy towards potential "harmful" symbology  We should focus on this for future releases as I've runned across some other topics and despite being loaded of work, I'll drop a bit on everything so we can push this forward as fast as we can. I don't believe we can accomplish such before F13 Release, but at least we can start thinking on providing such grounds for F14 release.  All this freedom thing is nice, but some people really don't get the picture that using some symbology (despite of their personal opinion) that has strong negative connotations is harmful.  Give me 2 weeks to get prepared, set a document and gather some scientific marketing production to backup this subject and present it.  If possible I would like to go remote on voice aswell for this.  nelson -- Nelson Marques <07721(a)ipam.pt&gt; -- marketing mailing list marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing

Good call, Robyn. Also, in an effort to streamline the process to keep from weighing down meetings with long theoretical discussions, most of the topics below can be discussed on list prior to the meeting for which it is agendized. Larry Cafiero On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 12:11 PM, Robyn Bergeron <robyn.bergeron(a)gmail.com <mailto:robyn.bergeron@gmail.com>> wrote: I think this would be great to add to the schedule -after- F13 is out. Between now and then, most of the marketing meetings are reserved for sprinting on deliverables and such. As it is - we'd really be looking at late may. Feel free drop it into the Agenda section of [[Marketing_meeting]] and list it as a future topic. On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 12:01 PM, Nelson Marques <07721(a)ipam.pt <mailto:07721@ipam.pt>> wrote: > > If possible I would like to get some space in one of our Marketing Team > meeting to introduce and discuss some topics: > > * Cultural aspects in Communication - it's importance, as Fedora aims > to an International Community. > * Consider what we shouldn't associate with Fedora. > * Symbology and Brand Association > * Restriction policy towards potential "harmful" symbology > > We should focus on this for future releases as I've runned across some > other topics and despite being loaded of work, I'll drop a bit on > everything so we can push this forward as fast as we can. I don't > believe we can accomplish such before F13 Release, but at least we can > start thinking on providing such grounds for F14 release. > > All this freedom thing is nice, but some people really don't get the > picture that using some symbology (despite of their personal opinion) > that has strong negative connotations is harmful. > > Give me 2 weeks to get prepared, set a document and gather some > scientific marketing production to backup this subject and present it. > If possible I would like to go remote on voice aswell for this. > > nelson > > > -- > Nelson Marques <07721(a)ipam.pt <mailto:07721@ipam.pt>> > > -- > marketing mailing list > marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org <mailto:marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing > -- marketing mailing list marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org <mailto:marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing

Hy Nelson, > meeting to introduce and discuss some topics: > > * Cultural aspects in Communication - it's importance, as Fedora aims > to an International Community. > * Consider what we shouldn't associate with Fedora. > * Symbology and Brand Association > * Restriction policy towards potential "harmful" symbology > I see your point regarding the mailings you posted also across the ambassadors list. But (me personally) also I think there is at THIS point in time more important work to do regarding upcoming F13 release (feature freeze is already on the move), the marketing tasks already on the move and upcoming marketing tasks. We should have such things in mind if it comes to new slogans and icons and stuff like that, but also know that there are also a Red Hat legal Department which will have a look at our work as far as I know and if there would be a potentional harm there would be persons who let us know about it. Also there are many blogposts, irc discussions, etc. around and if something with bad influence came up it had popped up already. Also I think words like "restriction policy" is here totally wrong. Maybe one tiny section in the upcoming kind of brandbook or Design Guideline should be enough > Give me 2 weeks to get prepared, set a document and gather some > scientific marketing production to backup this subject and present it. > If possible I would like to go remote on voice aswell for this. > I think we ALWAYS could find something that can be uses "against" some freedom ideas, symbols, etc. Somebody can say that the "f" look like a hook and associate it with "we hook you up" or "I plow with that hook to your nose" or something more surreal ;-) I'm looking forward to read about your thesis and I know what you mean, but also I think that we are so far really good with "our" symbolism. But thats only my 2Cents :)

mit freundlichen Grüßen / best regards Henrik Heigl - wonderer(a)fedoraproject.org PGP/GnuPG: 8237 D432 0616 D567 DBC6 3FE3 0D52 B374 F468 A5F0

Comments inline - On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 12:48 PM, Nelson Marques <07721(a)ipam.pt&gt; wrote: > On Sun, 2010-03-28 at 21:19 +0200, wonderer wrote: >> Hy Nelson, >> >> >> > meeting to introduce and discuss some topics: >> > >> > * Cultural aspects in Communication - it's importance, as Fedora aims >> > to an International Community. >> > * Consider what we shouldn't associate with Fedora. >> > * Symbology and Brand Association >> > * Restriction policy towards potential "harmful" symbology >> > >> I see your point regarding the mailings you posted also across the >> ambassadors list. But (me personally) also I think there is at THIS >> point in time more important work to do regarding upcoming F13 release >> (feature freeze is already on the move), the marketing tasks already on >> the move and upcoming marketing tasks. We should have such things in >> mind if it comes to new slogans and icons and stuff like that, but also >> know that there are also a Red Hat legal Department which will have a >> look at our work as far as I know and if there would be a potentional >> harm there would be persons who let us know about it. Also there are >> many blogposts, irc discussions, etc. around and if something with bad >> influence came up it had popped up already. >> Also I think words like "restriction policy" is here totally wrong. >> Maybe one tiny section in the upcoming kind of brandbook or Design >> Guideline should be enough >> > Give me 2 weeks to get prepared, set a document and gather some >> > scientific marketing production to backup this subject and present it. >> > If possible I would like to go remote on voice aswell for this. >> > >> I think we ALWAYS could find something that can be uses "against" some >> freedom ideas, symbols, etc. Somebody can say that the "f" look like a >> hook and associate it with "we hook you up" or "I plow with that hook to >> your nose" or something more surreal ;-) >> I'm looking forward to read about your thesis and I know what you mean, >> but also I think that we are so far really good with "our" symbolism. >> But thats only my 2Cents :) > > I'm not dumping a thesis neither I will take much time, 20 minutes > should be enough. All I want to do is to show how symbology, cultures > and sub-cultures (in the field of Anthropology) are important for our > work. By ignoring those we are providing free ammunition to be used > against ourselfs. In a real corporate world, companies like Coca Cola, > Nike, Citroen and others have already loss loads of money and hurt their > brands because of small/tiny things like this 20 minutes is not enough to cover what you have listed. We have major issues in marketing meetings currently (IMO) just trying to stick to agendas and topics without losing time, and we can barely get through agenda items in one hour. You're essentially proposing that we cover four major discussion topics at 5 minutes apiece, and I'm afraid that is just unrealistic, given the curiosity levels of our group (which is a good thing, btw). The topics are important enough that they should be allocated an appropriate amount of time; however, in terms of prioritization, the deliverables that we are currently committed to as far as the F13 release are just, quite simply, higher priority. These are items we have essentially signed our names to as far as on-time delivery - it is a matter of our own reputations within the community to get them out the door as agreed. If you want to have a meeting on a schedule that is not the standard marketing meeting time, put it on your blog and email to mktg and ambassadors, then that is certainly permitted. I would suggest taking a look at the meeting schedule for the #fedora-meeting rooms at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel and pick a time that won't be a conflict for most people. Right now, we -need- the scheduled marketing meeting for tracking and/or sprinting on deliverables right now. . > > It is something we can try to achieve. I'm going to place it in the > Agenda, still today and prepare a small presentation for everyone who > wants to read it based on some practical examples I am aware off. Then > if people find it is relevant, good, else, I rest my case and will > release a document for those who want to read it. > > By the way, this is not an issue in the field of Legal Departments, they > are not trained in cultural movements/sub-cultures/symbology. This is > mainly a part of Anthropology, which alongside with some other behavior > sciences are a part of Marketing. > > And please that "f" example (which I've always associated with inFinity) > is something rather different. No one was ever arrested and prosecuted > for such, which people have been arrested and prosecuted in Europe due > to using the "Hands Horns" gesture, to be precise, 5 people in Italy > during a Vatican event. So I think this gives a new insight about > things, considering that 1.1 billion people might feel offended by such > symbology, which is apparent un-harmfull for US citizens. That sign > excepting Northern America is deeply related to religion in all the > places, dodging such topics would be great for us, right ? Not to enter > the cultural/sub-cultural movements that I referred previously on the > ambassadors list. > > I'm just trying to help, nothing more, nothing less. And since Red Hat > owns the Fedora brand, I do think they should send a representative to > check out if this issues are worth looking or not. I'm pretty sure they > will agree with some things. I'm not sure I speak for marketing, ambassadors, or really, anyone else in the Fedora community - but I, personally, am not down with the idea of "calling in the Red Hat Referee to see who they agree with." We have a Board for this purpose, with a mix of people employed and not employed by Red Hat. We are a community; what we prioritize as a community should be agreed upon by the -community-, not by our sponsor. (But I'd like to take a moment and say: Thank you, Daddy Shadowman, for allowing us the freedom to be Fedora!) $.02. -Robyn > > nelson > >> >> >> >> >> mit freundlichen Grüßen / best regards >> Henrik Heigl - wonderer(a)fedoraproject.org >> >> PGP/GnuPG: 8237 D432 0616 D567 DBC6 3FE3 0D52 B374 F468 A5F0 >> > > -- > Nelson Marques <07721(a)ipam.pt&gt; > > -- > marketing mailing list > marketing(a)lists.fedoraproject.org > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing

PS: What a marketing budget we will got if we find a way to cash all the $0.02 that everybody is tossing with at emails

* Cultural aspects in Communication - it's importance, as Fedora aims to an International Community. * Consider what we shouldn't associate with Fedora. * Symbology and Brand Association * Restriction policy towards potential "harmful" symbology

I'd like to put forth a counterproposal. Nelson, how about running some Classroom (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Classroom) sessions on the topics you've proposed? > * Cultural aspects in Communication - it's importance, as Fedora aims > to an International Community. > * Consider what we shouldn't associate with Fedora. > * Symbology and Brand Association > * Restriction policy towards potential "harmful" symbology That way, you can look at drawing from a broader audience than those of us who are usually present for Marketing meetings, and we can continue to use meetings to work towards our F13 deliverables and such. --Mel