11:01 a.m.
Present:
Patrick Barnes (nman64)
Rahul Sundaram (mether)
Karsten Wade (quaid)
Jon Fautley ([sasquatch])
Colin Charles (byte)
Greg DeKoenigsberg (gregdek)
Marc (StrikeForce)
Tejas Dinkar (tejas)
Bob Jensen
Notes:
* Mentors - There's a mailing list, art project with Diana is there,
but the rest aren't responding. Rahul has responded. Note that there is
NO duplication of information by creating new guides - its just revising
existing materials. Marc to resend out more information bits about the
list to developers, and there have been a small number of newbies that
have signed up. Wiki page needs updating, people need to get on lists.
* FUDCon Promotion - numbers (registrants) 50 at the moment (pending
Alex), there has been publicity, sent to the list. Look at list archives
for this - lwn, lxer, linuxtoday, newsforge. 2 staff volunteers also
* SOP - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/SpreadingNews has been
integrated. It needs to be built on further, with possibly other
inspiration as well. Rahul is done with it (thanks for the great job),
others now need to contribute
* CMC - list is setup, its private, there are people on it. Keep in
mind focusing on our strengths and promoting that. This week is week of
promotion
* Logo - First round at: http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora/.
Infinite freedom isn't decided as the slogan, but the general consensus
is that the logo is loved. Concentrate on logo feedback today. Color can
be fixed later (like Legacy or something)
Is the 'f' too subtle? Do we need a name?
* Fedora-derivatives: Rahul will post to list over the weekend, and
Tejas has found a bunch of "dead" distros. Rahul is going to download
everything he can get his hands on. c.f. Blag on LiveCd list for
starters
* Fedora Marketing Kit - saved for next week. Rahul did:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraOverview, with the idea to expand it
to a list. It clearly needs more content, to link of to other pages.
Patrick has been trying a new redesign, at
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PatrickBarnes/Prototypes/FrontPage and the
idea is to move the wiki to the frontpage eventually. Patrick will work
with the designers for this (incl. Bob Jensen)
* Legacy pages have been cleaned up at
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legacy by Rahul, after talking to Jesse
and folk on #fedora-devel. Rahul probably volunteering to own the
content, infrastructure to fedoralegacy
* Do we want a wiki as the main/front page?
--
Colin Charles, http://www.bytebot.net/
11:16 a.m.
On Fri, 2005-09-16 at 02:01 +1000, Colin Charles wrote:
* Logo - First round at:
http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora/.
Infinite freedom isn't decided as the slogan, but the general consensus
is that the logo is loved. Concentrate on logo feedback today. Color can
be fixed later (like Legacy or something)
Is the 'f' too subtle? Do we need a name?
I think the f is far too subtle. The shirt design in particular will
confuse people. It needs to come with the name wherever possible.
~spot
--
Tom "spot" Callaway: Red Hat Senior Sales Engineer || GPG ID: 93054260
Fedora Extras Steering Committee Member (RPM Standards and Practices)
Aurora Linux Project Leader: http://auroralinux.org
Lemurs, llamas, and sparcs, oh my!
11:18 a.m.
Tom 'spot' Callaway wrote:
On Fri, 2005-09-16 at 02:01 +1000, Colin Charles wrote:
Co
> * Logo - First round at: http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora/.
>Infinite freedom isn't decided as the slogan, but the general consensus
>is that the logo is loved. Concentrate on logo feedback today. Color can
>be fixed later (like Legacy or something)
>
>Is the 'f' too subtle? Do we need a name?
>
>
I think the f is far too subtle. The shirt design in particular will
confuse people. It needs to come with the name wherever possible.
~spot
Tie it up infinitely with the slogan "Infinite Freedom" would fix that?
;-)
regards
Rahul
12:33 p.m.
On Thu, 2005-09-15 at 21:48 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Tom 'spot' Callaway wrote:
>On Fri, 2005-09-16 at 02:01 +1000, Colin Charles wrote:
>Co
>
>
>> * Logo - First round at: http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora/.
>>Infinite freedom isn't decided as the slogan, but the general consensus
>>is that the logo is loved. Concentrate on logo feedback today. Color can
>>be fixed later (like Legacy or something)
>>
>>Is the 'f' too subtle? Do we need a name?
>>
>>
>
>I think the f is far too subtle. The shirt design in particular will
>confuse people. It needs to come with the name wherever possible.
>
>~spot
>
>
Tie it up infinitely with the slogan "Infinite Freedom" would fix that? ;-)
I dare you to use that slogan in front of an OpenBSD developer :)
More seriously, I think that making "free" or "open" the key word has
potential issues, because although they are important they aren't
distinctive attributes of Fedora - other groups have claims on them, and
attach differing meanings. Arguably they have become buzzwords, outside
of the communities involved.
Three different well-known systems (one is not Linux-based):
"a free operating system for your computer"
"a complete, general purpose operating system exclusively from open
source software"
"free, secure, and highly portable open source operating system"
The idea of "doing the right thing" has come up recently, and perhaps
that might be another start point - it encompasses licensing, technical
aspects and community.
http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2005-September/msg00...
--
Stuart Ellis
stuart(a)elsn.org
Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/
GPG key ID: 7098ABEA
GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA
12:41 p.m.
Stuart Ellis wrote:
On Thu, 2005-09-15 at 21:48 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
>Tom 'spot' Callaway wrote:
>
>
>
>>On Fri, 2005-09-16 at 02:01 +1000, Colin Charles wrote:
>>Co
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>* Logo - First round at: http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora/.
>>>Infinite freedom isn't decided as the slogan, but the general consensus
>>>is that the logo is loved. Concentrate on logo feedback today. Color can
>>>be fixed later (like Legacy or something)
>>>
>>>Is the 'f' too subtle? Do we need a name?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>I think the f is far too subtle. The shirt design in particular will
>>confuse people. It needs to come with the name wherever possible.
>>
>>~spot
>>
>>
>>
>>
>Tie it up infinitely with the slogan "Infinite Freedom" would fix that? ;-)
>
>
I dare you to use that slogan in front of an OpenBSD developer :)
More seriously, I think that making "free" or "open" the key word has
potential issues, because although they are important they aren't
distinctive attributes of Fedora - other groups have claims on them, and
attach differing meanings. Arguably they have become buzzwords, outside
of the communities involved.
Three different well-known systems (one is not Linux-based):
"a free operating system for your computer"
"a complete, general purpose operating system exclusively from open
source software"
"free, secure, and highly portable open source operating system"
The idea of "doing the right thing" has come up recently, and perhaps
that might be another start point - it encompasses licensing, technical
aspects and community.
http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2005-September/msg00...
Yes. I used that as a slogan in the overview page and it has now been
copied over to the front page too
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraOverview
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/
regards
Rahul
12:17 p.m.
On 9/15/05, Tom 'spot' Callaway <tcallawa(a)redhat.com> wrote:
I think the f is far too subtle. The shirt design in particular will
confuse people. It needs to come with the name wherever possible.
Would outlining the f make it "pop" out for you more? Or are we
talking about playing with the color palette so there is more
contrast?
Yes, using the logo with the name everywhere you can will be key.. in
the near term is going to be vital. Until you actually get immense
quantifiable brand recognition the logo can't be used by itself.. it
needs to be used to add punch to the name. Let's face it..we aren't
Nike. You can get away with using just the logo on the corner of the
desktop menu... but on any PR tools, the name needs to be used with
the logo.
-jef"To whom do i send the KK dougnuts in appreciation?"spaleta
12:23 p.m.
On Sep 15, 2005, at 1:17 PM, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
On 9/15/05, Tom 'spot' Callaway <tcallawa(a)redhat.com>
wrote:
> I think the f is far too subtle. The shirt design in particular will
> confuse people. It needs to come with the name wherever possible.
>
Would outlining the f make it "pop" out for you more? Or are we
talking about playing with the color palette so there is more
contrast?
Yes, using the logo with the name everywhere you can will be key.. in
the near term is going to be vital. Until you actually get immense
quantifiable brand recognition the logo can't be used by itself.. it
needs to be used to add punch to the name. Let's face it..we aren't
Nike. You can get away with using just the logo on the corner of the
desktop menu... but on any PR tools, the name needs to be used with
the logo.
-jef"To whom do i send the KK dougnuts in appreciation?"spaleta
I think we're talking about subtle color tweaks to up the contrast.
Matt"i like sprinkles on my donuts"Muñoz
......
Matthew Muñoz | Capstrat | 919-882-1975
1:48 p.m.
On 9/15/05, Matt Munoz <mmunoz(a)capstrat.com> wrote:
I think we're talking about subtle color tweaks to up the
contrast.
Did you spin up any black and white or greyscale versions of the
logo+wordmark? Just to see how it looks when forced through a
photocopier.. or how its going to look when people need to come up
with a high contrast logo?
-jef
1:56 p.m.
On Sep 15, 2005, at 2:48 PM, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
On 9/15/05, Matt Munoz <mmunoz(a)capstrat.com> wrote:
> I think we're talking about subtle color tweaks to up the contrast.
>
Did you spin up any black and white or greyscale versions of the
logo+wordmark? Just to see how it looks when forced through a
photocopier.. or how its going to look when people need to come up
with a high contrast logo?
-jef
•••
Yes, I do have one
http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora/fedoraLogo_10b.jpg
I also worked it into the presentation.
m
......
Matthew Muñoz | Capstrat | 919-882-1975
4:34 p.m.
On 9/15/05, Matt Munoz <mmunoz(a)capstrat.com> wrote:
Yes, I do have one
http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora/fedoraLogo_10b.jpg
I also worked it into the presentation.
Sorry I missed the original link.. I will say the contrast in the
greyscale makes the f stand out more than the current colorized
version with the light blue secondary color. The color you have for
the legacy variation mockups seems to provide the best contrast among
the different colors in
http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora/fedoraLogo_14.jpg to me.
Unfortunately legacy is also the only variation that has an
established history with regard to color so if you keep that color
you'll need to use it for another subproject. Can you spin up a logo
using the shade of green from fedoralegacy.org colorscheme?
-jef"but since i dont exactly have a color calibrated monitor, take
this with a truck load of salt"spaleta
1:40 p.m.
On Sep 15, 2005, at 5:34 PM, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
On 9/15/05, Matt Munoz <mmunoz(a)capstrat.com> wrote:
> Yes, I do have one
> http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora/fedoraLogo_10b.jpg
>
> I also worked it into the presentation.
>
Sorry I missed the original link.. I will say the contrast in the
greyscale makes the f stand out more than the current colorized
version with the light blue secondary color.
The color you have for
the legacy variation mockups seems to provide the best contrast among
the different colors in
http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora/fedoraLogo_14.jpg to me.
Unfortunately legacy is also the only variation that has an
established history with regard to color so if you keep that color
you'll need to use it for another subproject. Can you spin up a logo
using the shade of green from fedoralegacy.org colorscheme?
•••
I've added the mark with the proper green to the presentation under
"Additions" (at the bottom). Here's the direct link:
http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora/fedoraLogo_20.jpg
-jef"but since i dont exactly have a color calibrated monitor,
take
this with a truck load of salt"spaleta
2:54 p.m.
On Fri, 2005-09-16 at 14:40 -0400, Matt Munoz wrote:
I've added the mark with the proper green to the presentation
under
"Additions" (at the bottom). Here's the direct link:
http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora/fedoraLogo_20.jpg
Looks good. ON top, why is Fedora capitalized but not Legacy,
especially when below fedora isn't capitalized? Is there a formula as
to when [Ff]edora will be capitalized, and also the subproject attached
name?
--
Jesse Keating RHCE (http://geek.j2solutions.net)
Fedora Legacy Team (http://www.fedoralegacy.org)
GPG Public Key
(http://geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub)
Was I helpful? Let others know:
http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=jkeating
3:17 p.m.
On Sep 16, 2005, at 3:54 PM, Jesse Keating wrote:
On Fri, 2005-09-16 at 14:40 -0400, Matt Munoz wrote:
> I've added the mark with the proper green to the presentation under
> "Additions" (at the bottom). Here's the direct link:
> http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora/fedoraLogo_20.jpg
>
Looks good. ON top, why is Fedora capitalized but not Legacy,
especially when below fedora isn't capitalized? Is there a formula as
to when [Ff]edora will be capitalized, and also the subproject
attached
name?
•••
That was a mistake on my part, I've capitalized Legacy on top and
threw a new jpg up there.
--
Jesse Keating RHCE (http://geek.j2solutions.net)
Fedora Legacy Team (http://www.fedoralegacy.org)
GPG Public Key
(http://geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub)
Was I helpful? Let others know:
http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=jkeating
--
Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
Fedora-marketing-list(a)redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
•••
Matthew Muñoz | Capstrat | 919-882-1975
7:01 p.m.
On 9/16/05, Matt Munoz <mmunoz(a)capstrat.com> wrote:
I've added the mark with the proper green to the presentation
under
"Additions" (at the bottom). Here's the direct link:
http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora/fedoraLogo_20.jpg
Oh yeah.. that makes for a good contrast.
The "inline" modification that Tejas Dinkar mocked up might be worth
looking at as well to enhance contrast across any secondary color.
-jef
5:07 p.m.
On Thu, 2005-09-15 at 17:34 -0400, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
if you keep that color
you'll need to use it for another subproject.
The Documentation Project might like to take that color, seeing as we
are otherwise unrepresented, and it's kind of pretty.
However, we might want to pause and see what emotions are attached to
those colors and see that the colors fit. Or is that too touchy-feely
for email?
http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora/fedoraLogo_14.jpg
I like the red of "core4" for Core. Having "project" and
"foundation"
the same color makes sense, they are nearly synonymous.
Extras will need a new color, or it will clash with Legacy green. The
magenta might do best for Extras, as it's a "variation" on the red.
Sort-of within the same visual palette.
What other colors do we have? What happens when we "run out" of colors?
Should we have some scheme for picking colors within palettes?
- Karsten
--
Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/
gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41
Red Hat SELinux Guide
http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/
12:24 p.m.
> I think the f is far too subtle. The shirt design in particular
will
> confuse people. It needs to come with the name wherever possible.
This was my initial reaction as well.
Would outlining the f make it "pop" out for you more? Or
are we
Hm, yes, that might make the difference...
Yes, using the logo with the name everywhere you can will be key.. in
the
near term is going to be vital. Until you actually get immense
quantifiable brand recognition the logo can't be used by itself.. it needs
+1
BTW, I think the trademark as a whole (symbol + wordmark) looks excellent.
And I like the look of the wordmark itself a lot; I think it really succeeds
in conveying the intended feeling.
--
Paul Stauffer <paulds(a)bu.edu>
Manager of Research Computing
Computer Science Department
Boston University
12:33 p.m.
On 9/15/05, Paul Stauffer <paulds(a)bu.edu> wrote:
BTW, I think the trademark as a whole (symbol + wordmark) looks
excellent.
And I like the look of the wordmark itself a lot; I think it really succeeds
in conveying the intended feeling.
I really like http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora/fedoraLogo_10.jpg
as a model for the story were are trying to tell people when we talk
about fedora.
No technical mobojumbo... its emotive and its about as minimal a
description as you can get.
I'd actually like to reuse a variation of that symbol "equation" with
the final trademark on the righthand side as an ad banner.
-jef"And together they combine into Voltron..err Fedora!"spaleta
12:50 p.m.
On Thu, 2005-09-15 at 13:33 -0400, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
On 9/15/05, Paul Stauffer <paulds(a)bu.edu> wrote:
> BTW, I think the trademark as a whole (symbol + wordmark) looks excellent.
> And I like the look of the wordmark itself a lot; I think it really succeeds
> in conveying the intended feeling.
I really like http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora/fedoraLogo_10.jpg
as a model for the story were are trying to tell people when we talk
about fedora.
No technical mobojumbo... its emotive and its about as minimal a
description as you can get.
I'd actually like to reuse a variation of that symbol "equation" with
the final trademark on the righthand side as an ad banner.
Agreed. I love the simplicity of this explanation. It would also look
good on a t-shirt. ;-)
-jef"And together they combine into Voltron..err
Fedora!"spaleta
--
Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
Fedora-marketing-list(a)redhat.com
http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
5 p.m.
On Thu, 2005-09-15 at 13:50 -0400, Tammy Fox wrote:
On Thu, 2005-09-15 at 13:33 -0400, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
> On 9/15/05, Paul Stauffer <paulds(a)bu.edu> wrote:
> > BTW, I think the trademark as a whole (symbol + wordmark) looks excellent.
> > And I like the look of the wordmark itself a lot; I think it really succeeds
> > in conveying the intended feeling.
>
> I really like http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora/fedoraLogo_10.jpg
> as a model for the story were are trying to tell people when we talk
> about fedora.
> No technical mobojumbo... its emotive and its about as minimal a
> description as you can get.
> I'd actually like to reuse a variation of that symbol "equation" with
> the final trademark on the righthand side as an ad banner.
>
Agreed. I love the simplicity of this explanation. It would also look
good on a t-shirt. ;-)
Can we demo such a banner via Red Hat Magazine?
We'll obviously need a good page to land on when people click-through.
Such a banner run via RH Mag needs to be the end-result of a campaign
that we put together here.
http://fedoraproject.org/infiniteFreedom/ ?
- Karsten
--
Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/
gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41
Red Hat SELinux Guide
http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/
11:22 a.m.
Colin Charles wrote:
* Logo - First round at:
http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora/.
Infinite freedom isn't decided as the slogan, but the general consensus
is that the logo is loved. Concentrate on logo feedback today. Color can
be fixed later (like Legacy or something)
Is the 'f' too subtle? Do we need a name?
This logo work is really well done. We should thank Matt Munoz and go
with it!
Cheers,
Steven Garrity
11:39 a.m.
On Thu, 2005-09-15 at 13:22 -0300, Steven Garrity wrote:
Colin Charles wrote:
> * Logo - First round at: http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora/.
> Infinite freedom isn't decided as the slogan, but the general consensus
> is that the logo is loved. Concentrate on logo feedback today. Color can
> be fixed later (like Legacy or something)
>
> Is the 'f' too subtle? Do we need a name?
This logo work is really well done. We should thank Matt Munoz and go
with it!
+1 !
And IMHO the shirt (and everything else) should say "Fedora" somewhere
and in large print. The symbol is OK but the "Fedora" name needs to
come with it basically everywhere since its new and people just won't
understand the symbol by itself.
Ed
--
Edward H. Hill III, PhD
office: MIT Dept. of EAPS; Rm 54-1424; 77 Massachusetts Ave.
Cambridge, MA 02139-4307
emails: eh3(a)mit.edu ed(a)eh3.com
URLs: http://web.mit.edu/eh3/ http://eh3.com/
phone: 617-253-0098
fax: 617-253-4464
12:12 p.m.
Perhaps at first we need to show both the wordmark and the symbol
together, but down the road, I think the symbol can stand on its own
two feet. Similar to the way the Shadowman symbol is used (without
the Red Hat wordmark).
Matt
......
Matthew Muñoz | Capstrat | 919-882-1975
On Sep 15, 2005, at 12:39 PM, Ed Hill wrote:
On Thu, 2005-09-15 at 13:22 -0300, Steven Garrity wrote:
> Colin Charles wrote:
>
>> * Logo - First round at: http://www.capstrat.com/development/
>> fedora/.
>> Infinite freedom isn't decided as the slogan, but the general
>> consensus
>> is that the logo is loved. Concentrate on logo feedback today.
>> Color can
>> be fixed later (like Legacy or something)
>>
>> Is the 'f' too subtle? Do we need a name?
>>
>
> This logo work is really well done. We should thank Matt Munoz and go
> with it!
>
+1 !
And IMHO the shirt (and everything else) should say "Fedora" somewhere
and in large print. The symbol is OK but the "Fedora" name needs to
come with it basically everywhere since its new and people just won't
understand the symbol by itself.
Ed
--
Edward H. Hill III, PhD
office: MIT Dept. of EAPS; Rm 54-1424; 77 Massachusetts Ave.
Cambridge, MA 02139-4307
emails: eh3(a)mit.edu ed(a)eh3.com
URLs: http://web.mit.edu/eh3/ http://eh3.com/
phone: 617-253-0098
fax: 617-253-4464
--
Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
Fedora-marketing-list(a)redhat.com
http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
7:14 p.m.
Steven Garrity wrote:
Colin Charles wrote:
> * Logo - First round at: http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora/.
> Infinite freedom isn't decided as the slogan, but the general consensus
> is that the logo is loved. Concentrate on logo feedback today. Color can
> be fixed later (like Legacy or something)
>
> Is the 'f' too subtle? Do we need a name?
This logo work is really well done. We should thank Matt Munoz and go
with it!
+1 for that idea. Although I do agree that combining the logo and the
words are brilliant. :) Damn good work.
Regards,
Marc
12:59 p.m.
On Fri, 2005-09-16 at 02:01 +1000, Colin Charles wrote:
* Logo - First round at:
http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora/.
Infinite freedom isn't decided as the slogan, but the general consensus
is that the logo is loved. Concentrate on logo feedback today. Color can
be fixed later (like Legacy or something)
Is the 'f' too subtle? Do we need a name?
Somebody suggested I should comment on the list, so here goes ;)
On the whole, I like the "infinite freedom" concept, and I like the
f-infinity teardrop logo. It also makes a great icon.
I don't like the 'f' in the wordmark; it seems that it should be more
similar to the logo. I also don't like the 'a'; it doesn't really
resemble the logo (as the intent is noted to be), and the wide circular
style makes the wordmark feel asymetric. But that's just nit-picking.
The real feedback I have is regarding the logo placement with respect to
the text. There's a big field of heavy, dark color in the logo, and
placing it caddy-corner to the right the text creates a lot of negative
space around it. The combination of the two draws the eye away from the
text very, very strongly.
This is obviously why the subproject logos all have the text on the
right side rather than the left, but it's still very, very strongly
weighted to the top and right.
Also, it kindof looks like a cartoon thought-balloon with that
placement.
--
Peter
1:02 p.m.
On Thu, 15 Sep 2005, Peter Jones wrote:
Also, it kindof looks like a cartoon thought-balloon with that
placement.
Yes, it does. That was exactly the point, aiui. :)
--g
_____________________ ____________________________________________
Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have
Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the
Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the
] [ dumb. --mcluhan
1:16 p.m.
On 9/15/05, Greg DeKoenigsberg <gdk(a)redhat.com> wrote:
On Thu, 15 Sep 2005, Peter Jones wrote:
> Also, it kindof looks like a cartoon thought-balloon with that
> placement.
Yes, it does. That was exactly the point, aiui. :)
careful... thought balloons.. and speech balloons are actually
distinct. I thought the point was to be indicative of voice or
speech...not "inner monologue"
It would feel more distinctly like a speech balloon to me if there was
a hint of the more tradition speech balloon curving tail at the lower
left corner instead of the hard right angle.
http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora/fedoraLogo_09.jpg
As I stare at that shape on its own.. i keep thinking ive seen that
shape used in another context....in software somewhere... but i can't
put my finger on it.
-jef
3:58 p.m.
On Thu, 2005-09-15 at 14:16 -0400, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
On 9/15/05, Greg DeKoenigsberg <gdk(a)redhat.com> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 15 Sep 2005, Peter Jones wrote:
>
> > Also, it kindof looks like a cartoon thought-balloon with that
> > placement.
>
> Yes, it does. That was exactly the point, aiui. :)
careful... thought balloons.. and speech balloons are actually
distinct. I thought the point was to be indicative of voice or
speech...not "inner monologue"
It would feel more distinctly like a speech balloon to me if there was
a hint of the more tradition speech balloon curving tail at the lower
left corner instead of the hard right angle.
http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora/fedoraLogo_09.jpg
..or if it was stretched a little more horizontally.
As I stare at that shape on its own.. i keep thinking ive seen that
shape used in another context....in software somewhere... but i can't
put my finger on it.
Real has a blue speech bubble logo. We aren't treading too close to
that, are we?
I think there's also some logo with an orange speech bubble that is even
closer in shape but I can't quite put my finger one that one either....
-Toshio
P.S. This logo looks nice and could look even nicer with outlining and
other tweaks but I don't think of Fedora when I see it or hear the
slogan.
P.P.S. The look of the logo reminds me of one of those twisty puzzle
toys made of linked colored plastic elbows... Kinda like this:
http://www.veghead.com/reptiles/tanglesnake.jpg
4:19 p.m.
On Thu, 2005-09-15 at 13:58 -0700, Toshio Kuratomi wrote:
I think there's also some logo with an orange speech bubble that
is even
closer in shape but I can't quite put my finger one that one either....
The "live bookmark" logo in firefox's status bar has a somewhat similar
feel because of its curved lines, and it's likely you see it every day,
but rarely look at it.
P.S. This logo looks nice and could look even nicer with outlining
and
other tweaks but I don't think of Fedora when I see it or hear the
slogan.
A good slogan should work the other way -- it should be something we
aspire to, and having it as a slogan helps us maintain focus. I'm not
sure "infinite freedom" works toward that, but my impression is that we
should be thinking more about the logo and wordmark in this discussion.
As for the icon, that *becomes* something you think of Fedora upon
seeing. It won't start that way, no matter how good or bad it is.
--
Peter
5:48 p.m.
On Thu, 2005-09-15 at 17:19 -0400, Peter Jones wrote:
> P.S. This logo looks nice and could look even nicer with
outlining and
> other tweaks but I don't think of Fedora when I see it or hear the
> slogan.
A good slogan should work the other way -- it should be something we
aspire to, and having it as a slogan helps us maintain focus. I'm not
sure "infinite freedom" works toward that, but my impression is that we
should be thinking more about the logo and wordmark in this discussion.
True -- but does the infinity sign have any meaning to Fedora without
that slogan? OTOH, you sould argue that few logos represent something
about the product their marketing. The analysis of how the logo came to
be may have thrown me into the wrong mode of thinking.
FWIW, I experimented with the logo a bit to see what some minor tweaking
might yield:
1) I stretched the speech bubble so it looked more like a speech bubble.
2) I turned the infinity sign more so it looked more like an infinity;
hopefully without compromising the "f".
3) In order to make the "f" stand out more, I experimented with outlines
and size. In the attached rendition, the "f" has been shrunk a
few pixels all around and more space inserted between the bar of the
"f" and the infinity sign's cross bar.
I'm not a graphic designer but perhaps some of this is a good idea?
-Toshio
1:18 p.m.
On Thu, 2005-09-15 at 14:02 -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
On Thu, 15 Sep 2005, Peter Jones wrote:
> Also, it kindof looks like a cartoon thought-balloon with that
> placement.
Yes, it does. That was exactly the point, aiui. :)
Well, it's obviously the reasoning behind the shape, and that's great.
At the same time, "f" and "cockeyed infinity" are both very weird
things
for the word "fedora" to be saying.
I like the shape, and I like where it comes from, but it's really odd to
actually _use_ it that way.
--
Peter
1:10 p.m.
On Sep 15, 2005, at 1:59 PM, Peter Jones wrote:
On Fri, 2005-09-16 at 02:01 +1000, Colin Charles wrote:
> * Logo - First round at: http://www.capstrat.com/development/
> fedora/.
> Infinite freedom isn't decided as the slogan, but the general
> consensus
> is that the logo is loved. Concentrate on logo feedback today.
> Color can
> be fixed later (like Legacy or something)
>
> Is the 'f' too subtle? Do we need a name?
>
Somebody suggested I should comment on the list, so here goes ;)
On the whole, I like the "infinite freedom" concept, and I like the
f-infinity teardrop logo. It also makes a great icon.
I don't like the 'f' in the wordmark; it seems that it should be more
similar to the logo. I also don't like the 'a'; it doesn't really
resemble the logo (as the intent is noted to be), and the wide
circular
style makes the wordmark feel asymetric. But that's just nit-picking.
The real feedback I have is regarding the logo placement with
respect to
the text. There's a big field of heavy, dark color in the logo, and
placing it caddy-corner to the right the text creates a lot of
negative
space around it. The combination of the two draws the eye away
from the
text very, very strongly.
I see what you're saying, but I look at it differently. I think of
the dark shape as a visual device to pull your eye through reading
the word fedora.
This is obviously why the subproject logos all have the text on the
right side rather than the left, but it's still very, very strongly
weighted to the top and right.
Also, it kindof looks like a cartoon thought-balloon with that
placement.
Thought-balloon, voice bubble, that's what we were going for.
--
Peter
--
Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
Fedora-marketing-list(a)redhat.com
http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
......
Matthew Muñoz | Capstrat | 919-882-1975
1:22 p.m.
On Thu, 2005-09-15 at 13:59 -0400, Peter Jones wrote:
On Fri, 2005-09-16 at 02:01 +1000, Colin Charles wrote:
> * Logo - First round at: http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora/.
> Infinite freedom isn't decided as the slogan, but the general consensus
> is that the logo is loved. Concentrate on logo feedback today. Color can
> be fixed later (like Legacy or something)
>
> Is the 'f' too subtle? Do we need a name?
Somebody suggested I should comment on the list, so here goes ;)
On the whole, I like the "infinite freedom" concept, and I like the
f-infinity teardrop logo. It also makes a great icon.
I like the icon, but I'm not convinced that the icon or the concept quite fit.
I associate Fedora more with innovation, forethought, design and care,
rather than vastness (in the amount of software, or flexibility), or
specifically with "freedom".
There is already a "Universal Operating System" (with a nice swirl logo
and a well-known emphasis on Freedom), and ultimate flexibility would
perhaps be a Gentoo motto.
Again, the icon is good, but it doesn't really say "Fedora" to me at
all...
--
Stuart Ellis
stuart(a)elsn.org
Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/
GPG key ID: 7098ABEA
GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA
1:37 p.m.
On Fri, 2005-09-16 at 02:01 +1000, Colin Charles wrote:
* Logo - First round at:
http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora/.
Infinite freedom isn't decided as the slogan, but the general consensus
is that the logo is loved. Concentrate on logo feedback today. Color can
be fixed later (like Legacy or something)
Yeah, I'd like the Legacy color to match the green we use at
http://www.fedoralegacy.org
--
Jesse Keating RHCE (http://geek.j2solutions.net)
Fedora Legacy Team (http://www.fedoralegacy.org)
GPG Public Key
(http://geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub)
Was I helpful? Let others know:
http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=jkeating
9:43 p.m.
* Logo - First round at:
http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora/.
Infinite freedom isn't decided as the slogan, but the general consensus
is that the logo is loved. Concentrate on logo feedback today. Color can
be fixed later (like Legacy or something)
This is so good, it made me go all squooshy inside. That may have been
the spicy chicken talking, but the logo is still good.
--jeremy
1:02 a.m.
Colin Charles wrote:
* Logo - First round at: http://www.capstrat.com/development/fedora/.
Infinite freedom isn't decided as the slogan, but the general consensus
is that the logo is loved. Concentrate on logo feedback today. Color can
be fixed later (like Legacy or something)
Is, by any chance, the font used for the wordmark a free one? So we can
freely make our derivative materials (think wallpapers, CD covers etc.)
If not (and I suspect this to be the case), what is the name of the font
used, so we can get it in our own ways?
--
nicu
my hats collection: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/hats
Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org
1:07 a.m.
New subject: FEDORA IN BRAZIL
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Hello!
For bigger spreading and interaction of Brazilian Fedora Core users, I
suggest the creation of a list of users of the Pt-br Language.
I can moderate it in case that they do not have somebody for this task.
I work in the translation project english/portuguese-br
- --
+================================================+
RODRIGO PADULA DE OLIVEIRA
(o- BACHAREL EM SISTEMAS DE INFORMAÇÃO
//\ FACULDADE METODISTA GRANBERY - FMG
V_/_
PostgreSQL - PHP - Linux
+================================================+
Membro Fundador do Gunix Linux
http://www.gunix.com.br
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iD8DBQFDKmEM8arYxsJpZ0URAobkAKDVZWB5CYX5Aru6i1hHvviqcX1r3QCcDv0/
v+QUGetZ9S3XacTpQ8ob/sE=
=0x32
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
9:44 a.m.
On Sep 16, 2005, at 2:02 AM, Nicu Buculei wrote:
Colin Charles wrote:
> * Logo - First round at: http://www.capstrat.com/development/
> fedora/.
> Infinite freedom isn't decided as the slogan, but the general
> consensus
> is that the logo is loved. Concentrate on logo feedback today.
> Color can
> be fixed later (like Legacy or something)
>
Is, by any chance, the font used for the wordmark a free one? So we
can freely make our derivative materials (think wallpapers, CD
covers etc.)
If not (and I suspect this to be the case), what is the name of the
font used, so we can get it in our own ways?
•••
You're right, the font used for the wordmark is not a free one. Until
the logo is approved, I'd rather not go into details about the font...
•••
--
nicu
my hats collection: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/hats
Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org
--
Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
Fedora-marketing-list(a)redhat.com
http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
......
Matthew Muñoz | Capstrat | 919-882-1975
12:35 p.m.
I thought of something that may make the f more obvious.
Rather than an outline, I though an 'inline' might look a bit better.
Anyway, here is my modification:
http://www.geocities.com/tejas_dinkar/FedoraLogo.png
It is a quick job with kpaint, so it is a bit boxish inside. It needs to be
redone.
Also, if we write In 'f' inite Freedom, replacing the f again with the logo,
it may help people understand the meaning of the symbol
Just my $0.02
2:12 p.m.
On Fri, 2005-09-16 at 10:44 -0400, Matt Munoz wrote:
On Sep 16, 2005, at 2:02 AM, Nicu Buculei wrote:
>
> Is, by any chance, the font used for the wordmark a free one? So we
> can freely make our derivative materials (think wallpapers, CD
> covers etc.)
> If not (and I suspect this to be the case), what is the name of the
> font used, so we can get it in our own ways?
>
•••
You're right, the font used for the wordmark is not a free one. Until
the logo is approved, I'd rather not go into details about the font...
I know the world of free/open source fonts is not that big, but is there
anything we can do about this?
It seems anathema to me to have our logo about infinite freedom be made
with a non-free font.
Can we pay someone to create a new font and free it?
- Karsten
--
Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/
gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41
Red Hat SELinux Guide
http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/
2:55 p.m.
On Fri, 2005-09-16 at 12:12 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote:
It seems anathema to me to have our logo about infinite freedom be
made
with a non-free font.
Yeah, using a non-free font seems like a no-go for me.
--
Jesse Keating RHCE (http://geek.j2solutions.net)
Fedora Legacy Team (http://www.fedoralegacy.org)
GPG Public Key
(http://geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub)
Was I helpful? Let others know:
http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=jkeating
3:03 p.m.
Jesse Keating wrote:
Yeah, using a non-free font seems like a no-go for me.
While a free font would obviously be ideal, there just aren't many good
ones (yet?).
Once the logo is created, and you've got a vector version of the
logo/wordmark (with the font converted to shapes), you can have a
completely free SVG logo with no royalties due or limitations from the
originating font.
That seems fine to me.
Steven Garrity
3:27 p.m.
On Fri, 2005-09-16 at 17:03 -0300, Steven Garrity wrote:
Once the logo is created, and you've got a vector version of the
logo/wordmark (with the font converted to shapes), you can have a
completely free SVG logo with no royalties due or limitations from the
originating font.
That seems fine to me.
And how does one recreate it using FOSS? Or better yet, using only what
comes with Fedora? Self serving is a good thing here.
--
Jesse Keating RHCE (http://geek.j2solutions.net)
Fedora Legacy Team (http://www.fedoralegacy.org)
GPG Public Key
(http://geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub)
Was I helpful? Let others know:
http://svcs.affero.net/rm.php?r=jkeating
3:46 p.m.
Jesse Keating wrote:
And how does one recreate it using FOSS? Or better yet, using only
what
comes with Fedora? Self serving is a good thing here.
I'm not totally in disagreement here - free is better. However, why do
you need to recreate it? You can't recreate a photograph.
That said, you can do everything else in the stack (Inkscape/Gimp, etc.)
with foss.
If it really is a sticking point (which I don't think it should be), the
symbol can still stand on it's own with another font.
Steven Garrity
6:35 a.m.
Steven Garrity wrote:
Jesse Keating wrote:
> And how does one recreate it using FOSS? Or better yet, using only what
> comes with Fedora? Self serving is a good thing here.
I'm not totally in disagreement here - free is better. However, why do
you need to recreate it? You can't recreate a photograph.
Suppose I would want to make my own Fedora fan page and want to put a
header with "my fedora fan page" on top of it with the same font face.
That said, you can do everything else in the stack (Inkscape/Gimp,
etc.)
with foss.
If it really is a sticking point (which I don't think it should be), the
symbol can still stand on it's own with another font.
6:43 a.m.
Nicu Buculei wrote:
Steven Garrity wrote:
> Jesse Keating wrote:
>
>> And how does one recreate it using FOSS? Or better yet, using only
>> what
>> comes with Fedora? Self serving is a good thing here.
>
>
>
> I'm not totally in disagreement here - free is better. However, why
> do you need to recreate it? You can't recreate a photograph.
Suppose I would want to make my own Fedora fan page and want to put a
header with "my fedora fan page" on top of it with the same font face.
For images, you can probably use and modify svg or png which should be
appropriately licensed. how about text?
regards
Rahul
9:37 a.m.
Nicu Buculei wrote:
Suppose I would want to make my own Fedora fan page and want to put a
header with "my fedora fan page" on top of it with the same font face.
There are lots of GPL projects out there that use commercial fonts for
their logos. For instance, phpBB had no regrets using Tripex for theirs.
Besides that, I think Matt's proposed logos are very neat and plain...
cool, if I may say so.
--
Ovidiu Lixandru
linux360
10:06 a.m.
Ovidiu Lixandru wrote:
Nicu Buculei wrote:
> Suppose I would want to make my own Fedora fan page and want to put a
> header with "my fedora fan page" on top of it with the same font face.
There are lots of GPL projects out there that use commercial fonts for
their logos. For instance, phpBB had no regrets using Tripex for theirs.
This is true, but also a lot of GPL projects are changing the fonts used
in the logo from propietary one to a free one at the request of the
community. For example such a change is expected at OpenOffice.org.
Regarding your phpBB example, look at
http://www.phpbb.com/images/pic-home2.jpg
The font used for "creating communities" is probably Arial Bold Italic
but can be easily replaced with Bitstream Vera Sans Bold Italic.
Is not the logo, but the wordmark which may be needed to be customised.
Besides that, I think Matt's proposed logos are very neat and
plain...
cool, if I may say so.
The quality of the logo and the font used for the wordmark are
completely orthogonal.
--
nicu
my hats collection: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/hats
Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org
11:08 a.m.
Nicu Buculei wrote:
This is true, but also a lot of GPL projects are changing the fonts
used
in the logo from propietary one to a free one at the request of the
community. For example such a change is expected at OpenOffice.org.
This is fine, as long as the only argument is not "hey, it's
commercial!". Open-source does not mean freeware, even though most
people make this mistake. The hired/designated designer paid for the
font, does his job and delivers the product.
Regarding your phpBB example, look at
http://www.phpbb.com/images/pic-home2.jpg
The font used for "creating communities" is probably Arial Bold Italic
but can be easily replaced with Bitstream Vera Sans Bold Italic.
Nope, it's Tripex (or Triplex, I've found the font using both of the
names) and it's commercial. Take a look here:
http://www.myfonts.com/fonts/emigre/triplex/
The quality of the logo and the font used for the wordmark are
completely orthogonal.
You could say the same thing about open-source and commercialware, at a
first glance.
--
Ovidiu Lixandru
linux360
11:13 a.m.
Hi
This is fine, as long as the only argument is not "hey, it's
commercial!". Open-source does not mean freeware, even though most
people make this mistake. The hired/designated designer paid for the
font, does his job and delivers the product.
You want to say "hey, it's proprietary" there
regards
Rahul
11:15 a.m.
New subject: Free/Open Source fonts
There has been some debate as to whether we should limit ourselves to a
freely-licensed font for the Fedora identity. I would suggest that this
be decided upon first - independent of the logo/wordmark idea - then,
the designers can work within known constraints.
Steven Garrity
11:24 a.m.
New subject: Free/Open Source fonts
Fonts--whether protected by copyright or not--are open source by
nature, as everyone can see how they are made and make their own with
suitable tools.
Taking a copyright-protected font for the artwork will not conflict
the open source values of Fedora.
Cheers,
a
On 9/21/05, Steven Garrity <stevelist(a)silverorange.com> wrote:
There has been some debate as to whether we should limit ourselves to
a
freely-licensed font for the Fedora identity. I would suggest that this
be decided upon first - independent of the logo/wordmark idea - then,
the designers can work within known constraints.
Steven Garrity
--
Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
Fedora-marketing-list(a)redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
--
Visit FUDCon London 2005
http://fedoraproject.org/fudcon
FUDCon:
Fedora Users and Developers Conference
11:30 a.m.
New subject: Free/Open Source fonts
On Wed, 21 Sep 2005, Alex Maier wrote:
Fonts--whether protected by copyright or not--are open source by
nature, as everyone can see how they are made and make their own with
suitable tools.
Try duplicating some big design agency's font exactly and passing it off
as your own, and see how true that statement actually is. :)
Taking a copyright-protected font for the artwork will not conflict
the open source values of Fedora.
I don't think it's quite that simple.
That said, can someone point to a good, definitive repository of "open
source fonts"? It might be nice to see what the open options are, anyway.
--g
_____________________ ____________________________________________
Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have
Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the
Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the
] [ dumb. --mcluhan
11:42 a.m.
New subject: Free/Open Source fonts
Hi
That said, can someone point to a good, definitive repository of "open
source fonts"? It might be nice to see what the open options are, anyway.
Also pros and cons - Free and proprietary fonts in a consolidated form.
Use the wiki if you want to
regards
Rahul
12:25 p.m.
New subject: Free/Open Source fonts
On Wed, 2005-09-21 at 18:24 +0200, Alex Maier wrote:
Fonts--whether protected by copyright or not--are open source by
nature, as everyone can see how they are made and make their own with
suitable tools.
That's just not the case. There's a reason Ariel has very slight
differences from Helvetica, and it's not that MS didn't think Helvetica
looked right. It's also not that they couldn't figure out how to copy
it.
Taking a copyright-protected font for the artwork will not conflict
the open source values of Fedora.
I think it's reasonable to use a copyrighted font, yes.
--
Peter
5:11 p.m.
New subject: Free/Open Source fonts
On 9/21/05, Peter Jones <pjones(a)redhat.com> wrote:
That's just not the case. There's a reason Ariel has very
slight
differences from Helvetica, and it's not that MS didn't think Helvetica
looked right. It's also not that they couldn't figure out how to copy
it.
> Taking a copyright-protected font for the artwork will not conflict
> the open source values of Fedora.
I think it's reasonable to use a copyrighted font, yes.
I don't.. but beyond that, do we really want that font?
I showed the proposed fedora logo to three folks in my little local
fedora-using community, and all three of them made a negative comment
about the font, and I was specifically told that the one used on the
fedora desktop logo looked nicer. This surprised me somewhat, because
I hadn't even noticed the font, ... I was too busy trying to come up
with an explanation of why I felt the bubble shape felt wrong.
In general I don't know what we're saying about the usefulness of the
"infinite freedom" desktop if you can't even reproduce its logo with a
free font. :) Since the characters can just be distributed as paths,
perhaps it's not a big issue, but I'd presume that it may be desirable
to have the sub-projects text in the same typeface, so the use of a
non-free font might even present practical issues.
4:53 p.m.
On Fri, 2005-09-16 at 17:03 -0300, Steven Garrity wrote:
Jesse Keating wrote:
> Yeah, using a non-free font seems like a no-go for me.
While a free font would obviously be ideal, there just aren't many good
ones (yet?).
Right, and there won't be unless people make them. Seems like Fedora
Font Project might be a good idea. :) I'm sure there are good font
designers interested in freeing some fonts.
Once the logo is created, and you've got a vector version of the
logo/wordmark (with the font converted to shapes), you can have a
completely free SVG logo with no royalties due or limitations from the
originating font.
This is interesting. There is a very gray line when you deal with
freedom and content. Does the presentation layer count? Only if you
include it, some say.
Legally you may be correct, IANAL, yet you speak with authority as if
from experience. But I think there is a principal at stake and I wonder
if it applies.
At what point do non-free resources leak over into the free side?
For example, using a non-free OS to produce FLOSS content is deemed a
non-leak.
With a font, there is a visual reminder of the non-freeness. I think it
leaks over enough that I want us to consider applying resources to
provide an acceptable free alternative that we can use instead.
Sorry, Matt. Welcome to debates about freedom. ;-)
- Karsten
--
Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/
gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41
Red Hat SELinux Guide
http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/
6:47 a.m.
Karsten Wade wrote:
On Fri, 2005-09-16 at 17:03 -0300, Steven Garrity wrote:
>Jesse Keating wrote:
>
>>Yeah, using a non-free font seems like a no-go for me.
>
>While a free font would obviously be ideal, there just aren't many good
>ones (yet?).
Right, and there won't be unless people make them. Seems like Fedora
Font Project might be a good idea. :) I'm sure there are good font
designers interested in freeing some fonts.
Following the success of the Open Clip Art Library
(http://openclipart.org), we planned to create a similar project for
fonts, but this is still in incubation stage, with only a placeholder
wiki so far (http://www.openfontlibrary.org), but definitely the
intention is to push it in the future (we have to sort out first some
internals of OCAL)
--
nicu
my hats collection: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/hats
Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org
2:10 p.m.
There are two ways to look at the font issue. One is that when used
(and controlled) as part of a protected trademark or logotype, you
don't necessarily want to make it that easy for folks to make
derivatives. What if they took the font and made "figaro", in the same
blue? Trademarks have to be protectable to be protected. You can't
tell someone to stop using a free font in their logo.
Second way to look at it is, maybe Red Hat does open this font, and/or
make it part of the default font set in Fedora, with wording as to how
it may be used in conjunction with a fedora related project logo, or
otherwise used to support fedora related marketing.
IMHO, since we are limited in what we can use to make people instantly
think of fedora when they see the font or the logotype by itself (e.g.
no visual fedora, just the name), we should consider/allow the
possibility that this font will only be used in an official capacity,
and that perhaps a family of font that supports it, or compliments it
very well, could be released for all the other legit marketing uses.
--jeremy
3:38 a.m.
+1
On 9/19/05, Jeremy Hogan <jeremy.hogan(a)gmail.com> wrote:
There are two ways to look at the font issue. One is that when used
(and controlled) as part of a protected trademark or logotype, you
don't necessarily want to make it that easy for folks to make
derivatives. What if they took the font and made "figaro", in the same
blue? Trademarks have to be protectable to be protected. You can't
tell someone to stop using a free font in their logo.
Second way to look at it is, maybe Red Hat does open this font, and/or
make it part of the default font set in Fedora, with wording as to how
it may be used in conjunction with a fedora related project logo, or
otherwise used to support fedora related marketing.
IMHO, since we are limited in what we can use to make people instantly
think of fedora when they see the font or the logotype by itself (e.g.
no visual fedora, just the name), we should consider/allow the
possibility that this font will only be used in an official capacity,
and that perhaps a family of font that supports it, or compliments it
very well, could be released for all the other legit marketing uses.
--jeremy
--
Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
Fedora-marketing-list(a)redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
--
Visit FUDCon London 2005
http://fedoraproject.org/fudcon
FUDCon:
Fedora Users and Developers Conference
4:36 p.m.
On 9/20/05, Alex Maier <lxmaier(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Visit FUDCon London 2005
http://fedoraproject.org/fudcon
FUDCon:
Fedora Users and Developers Conference
Speaking of fudcon.... is there a draft variation using the logo draft
in a way that makes clever sense for fudcon. I'd just thought I
ask..because fudcon breaks with the pattern of other variations...not
being a simple 2 word fedora + subproject.. and use the same variation
approach with secondary color/second word doesn't seem to fit very
well.
-jef"draft draft"spaleta
7:54 a.m.
On Sep 20, 2005, at 5:36 PM, Jeff Spaleta wrote:
On 9/20/05, Alex Maier <lxmaier(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Visit FUDCon London 2005
> http://fedoraproject.org/fudcon
>
> FUDCon:
> Fedora Users and Developers Conference
>
Speaking of fudcon.... is there a draft variation using the logo draft
in a way that makes clever sense for fudcon. I'd just thought I
ask..because fudcon breaks with the pattern of other variations...not
being a simple 2 word fedora + subproject.. and use the same variation
approach with secondary color/second word doesn't seem to fit very
well.
•••
there isn't one yet
-jef"draft draft"spaleta
•••
Matthew Muñoz | Capstrat | 919-882-1975
9:07 p.m.
On 9/15/05, Colin Charles <byte(a)aeon.com.my> wrote:
* Fedora-derivatives: Rahul will post to list over the weekend, and
Tejas has found a bunch of "dead" distros. Rahul is going to download
everything he can get his hands on. c.f. Blag on LiveCd list for
starters
Not just that, the plot thickens.
Distro Watch groups RedHat based Distros and Fedora Based Distros together.
This leads to two things:
1) Someone should contact distro watch, and tell them to stop grouping it
together
2) Many of the Distros there are RedHat based, and are not related to Fedora
at all.
And the websites of some distros do not mention if they are based on RH or
FC, such as :
http://www.asianux.com/
Do I include such Distros in the compilation?
1:05 a.m.
Tejas Dinkar wrote:
On 9/15/05, *Colin Charles* <byte(a)aeon.com.my
<mailto:byte@aeon.com.my>> wrote:
* Fedora-derivatives: Rahul will post to list over the weekend, and
Tejas has found a bunch of "dead" distros. Rahul is going to download
everything he can get his hands on. c.f. Blag on LiveCd list for
starters
Not just that, the plot thickens.
Distro Watch groups RedHat based Distros and Fedora Based Distros
together. This leads to two things:
1) Someone should contact distro watch, and tell them to stop grouping
it together
2) Many of the Distros there are RedHat based, and are not related to
Fedora at all.
Considering that RHEL itself is based on Fedora, grouping them together
is just fine IMO. Getting a list of the distributions in the second
category would be helpful. Collect all the information in the wiki and
we will launch it off from there
regards
Rahul
6793
days inactive
6799
days old
marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org
62 comments
23 participants
participants (23)
-
Alex -
Colin Charles -
Ed Hill -
Greg DeKoenigsberg -
Gregory Maxwell -
Jef Spaleta -
Jeremy Hogan -
Jesse Keating -
Karsten Wade -
Marc Wiriadisastra -
Matt Munoz -
Nicu Buculei -
Ovidiu Lixandru -
Paul Stauffer -
Peter Jones -
Rahul Sundaram -
Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira -
Steven Garrity -
Stuart Ellis -
Tammy Fox -
Tejas Dinkar -
Tom Callaway -
Toshio Kuratomi