4:26 p.m.
So I'm going to ask this question to you, the friendly Fedora marketing
team.
But first, a history lesson:
http://lwn.net/Articles/83360/
This is pretty much the most accurate depiction of how the great brand
gulf between Fedora and Red Hat started. And in many people's minds, that
gulf has grown to such an extent that many don't have any way of
associating Red Hat with Fedora *at all*.
So let me ask you:
If, in splash screens for Fedora, we put a tasteful "sponsored by Red Hat"
with the Shadowman logo somewhere small... how would you all feel about
that?
--g
--
Greg DeKoenigsberg
Community Development Manager
Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255
"To whomsoever much hath been given...
...from him much shall be asked"
4:46 p.m.
On Mon, 2008-03-31 at 17:26 -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
If, in splash screens for Fedora, we put a tasteful "sponsored
by Red Hat"
with the Shadowman logo somewhere small... how would you all feel about
that?
I've no problem with that.
Later,
/B
--
Brian Pepple <bpepple(a)fedoraproject.org>
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BrianPepple
gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys 810CC15E
BD5E 6F9E 8688 E668 8F5B CBDE 326A E936 810C C15E
4:47 p.m.
So let me ask you:
If, in splash screens for Fedora, we put a tasteful "sponsored by Red Hat"
with the Shadowman logo somewhere small... how would you all feel about
that?
In my opinion, this is a great idea for a couple reasons.
First, whenever I take the time to introduce someone to Fedora or Red Hat,
they get utterly confused if I don't first explain the relationship. This
is well-known throughout our community and as such, a "sponsored by Red Hat"
logo somewhere would be nice.
Next, Red Hat has a lot to do with the fact that the Fedora Project
thrives. While it may have differing opinions from the community, as far as
I can tell, they are still listening to the community and most recently
we're being heard.
I am sure there are other reasons, but these are just a couple off the top
of my head. I'm excited to see this change and look forward to more
unification of our brands even if its just a simple sponsorship.
Cheers,
Clint
4:52 p.m.
On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 5:26 PM, Greg DeKoenigsberg <gdk(a)redhat.com> wrote:
That's ancient history at this point. History we'd of course rather
not have to look back on, but we do. As of now, I think that Fedora
is the most transparent commercially backed distribution out there.
This is pretty much the most accurate depiction of how the great
brand
gulf between Fedora and Red Hat started. And in many people's minds, that
gulf has grown to such an extent that many don't have any way of
associating Red Hat with Fedora *at all*.
Yep, sad but true.
So let me ask you:
If, in splash screens for Fedora, we put a tasteful "sponsored by Red Hat"
with the Shadowman logo somewhere small... how would you all feel about
that?
Go for it! Maybe we can attempt to repair some of the past "damage"
to the brand. I help in correcting lots of people's perceptions that
things are still how they were in the past.
Now the question is: Is rh_legal OK with this? :)
9:36 a.m.
On Mon, 31 Mar 2008, Jon Stanley wrote:
Go for it! Maybe we can attempt to repair some of the past
"damage"
to the brand. I help in correcting lots of people's perceptions that
things are still how they were in the past.
Now the question is: Is rh_legal OK with this? :)
I haven't asked yet. But here's the thing:
I CARE A LOT MORE ABOUT WHAT YOU THINK THAT ABOUT WHAT RH LEGAL THINKS.
Because without your support, the Fedora brand is meaningless.
Therefore, if I have mostly +1s from you guys, the next stop is probably
the Fedora Board -- and then, and *only* then, will I go to RH internal
brand / legal folks.
--g
--
Greg DeKoenigsberg
Community Development Manager
Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255
"To whomsoever much hath been given...
...from him much shall be asked"
11:27 a.m.
On Mon, 2008-03-31 at 17:52 -0400, Jon Stanley wrote:
On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 5:26 PM, Greg DeKoenigsberg
<gdk(a)redhat.com> wrote:
> http://lwn.net/Articles/83360/
That's ancient history at this point.
... but still the funniest thing I love to go back to re-read. It's
like a bruise on your funny bone -- hurts and makes you laugh at the
same time.
--
Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr.
Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com
Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org
gpg key : AD0E0C41
4:56 p.m.
On Mon, 2008-03-31 at 17:26 -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
So I'm going to ask this question to you, the friendly Fedora
marketing
team.
But first, a history lesson:
http://lwn.net/Articles/83360/
This is pretty much the most accurate depiction of how the great brand
gulf between Fedora and Red Hat started. And in many people's minds, that
gulf has grown to such an extent that many don't have any way of
associating Red Hat with Fedora *at all*.
So let me ask you:
If, in splash screens for Fedora, we put a tasteful "sponsored by Red Hat"
with the Shadowman logo somewhere small... how would you all feel about
that?
I'd say that things have changed a lot since that was written. What were
those statistics that Max pointed out a while ago? Over 50% of packages
are now maintained by the community; the build system is now completely
open; anybody can gain the trust of the project and be allowed to work
on essential infra; the list goes on!
With this in mind, I see no problem with thanking Red Hat and linking
ourselves with their strong brand in a subtle manner. But maybe we ought
to do more to promote the massive achievements in community growing that
have happened lately...
Jon
5:03 p.m.
On Mon, 2008-03-31 at 22:56 +0100, Jonathan Roberts wrote:
I'd say that things have changed a lot since that was written.
What were
those statistics that Max pointed out a while ago? Over 50% of packages
are now maintained by the community; the build system is now completely
open; anybody can gain the trust of the project and be allowed to work
on essential infra; the list goes on!
With this in mind, I see no problem with thanking Red Hat and linking
ourselves with their strong brand in a subtle manner. But maybe we ought
to do more to promote the massive achievements in community growing that
have happened lately...
What about "Sponsored by Red Hat" followed shortly by "Brought to you by
the Fedora Community"?
--
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams <ivazqueznet(a)gmail.com>
5:39 p.m.
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:
> With this in mind, I see no problem with thanking Red Hat and
linking
> ourselves with their strong brand in a subtle manner. But maybe we ought
> to do more to promote the massive achievements in community growing that
> have happened lately...
What about "Sponsored by Red Hat" followed shortly by "Brought to you by
the Fedora Community"?
+1
Elio
4:59 p.m.
Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
So let me ask you:
If, in splash screens for Fedora, we put a tasteful "sponsored by Red
Hat" with the Shadowman logo somewhere small... how would you all feel
about that?
Maybe make it say "Heavily sponsored by Red Hat", as to not get only
half the truth out there.
Kind regards,
Jeroen van Meeuwen
-kanarip
11:30 a.m.
On Mon, 2008-03-31 at 23:59 +0200, Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote:
Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
> So let me ask you:
>
> If, in splash screens for Fedora, we put a tasteful "sponsored by Red
> Hat" with the Shadowman logo somewhere small... how would you all feel
> about that?
>
Maybe make it say "Heavily sponsored by Red Hat", as to not get only
half the truth out there.
I first read that as "heavenly sponsored by Red Hat", which I think is
just a tad bit too much. 'Cause then people like me would be demiurges,
and I don't feel that pow'ful.
--
Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr.
Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com
Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org
gpg key : AD0E0C41
5:02 p.m.
Am Montag, 31. März 2008 23:26:33 schrieb Greg DeKoenigsberg:
If, in splash screens for Fedora, we put a tasteful "sponsored
by Red Hat"
with the Shadowman logo somewhere small... how would you all feel about
that?
Let me answer with a mail i answered to Rahul with a reply from Paul Frields.
I understand it from the RedHat view. But i don´t like this idea!
cu Joerg
--
Jörg Simon
jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon
Key Fingerprint:
3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688
9:33 a.m.
2008/4/1, JoergSimon <jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org>:
Am Montag, 31. März 2008 23:26:33 schrieb Greg DeKoenigsberg:
> If, in splash screens for Fedora, we put a tasteful "sponsored by Red
Hat"
> with the Shadowman logo somewhere small... how would you all feel about
> that?
Let me answer with a mail i answered to Rahul with a reply from Paul Frields.
I understand it from the RedHat view. But i don´t like this idea!
cu Joerg
--
Jörg Simon
jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon
Key Fingerprint:
3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688
---------- Messaggio inoltrato ----------
From: "Paul W. Frields" <stickster(a)gmail.com>
To: fedora-ambassadors-list(a)redhat.com
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2008 12:10:19 -0400
Subject: Re: [Ambassadors] Re: Co-branding?
On Wed, 2008-03-26 at 11:55 +0100, JoergSimon wrote:
> Am Mittwoch, 26. März 2008 11:18:33 schrieb Rahul Sundaram:
> > Branding is more concerned with marketing. Besides if ambassadors are
> > not subscribed to the marketing list, they are not following the
> > recommend procedure at
> >
> > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Join
>
> yes
>
> > We don't
> > want to cross post either. Refer
> > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2007-March/msg00007.ht
> >ml
>
> I know the guidelines very well! It was only to shift it to the people who
> must deal with the consequences of this issue.
> And if you want play this odd guideline game, then you must admit, we don´t
> want discuss the same topics again and again! (There are a lot more ... )
> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2007-July/msg00086....
>
> I want to stop this, because there was enough confusion in the past. And there
> are clear guidelines that we are not RedHat - and we don´t want.
>
> i will quote GregdeKoenigsberg:
>
> "The Fedora brand must evolve separately from Red Hat's brand. Fedora is
very
> important to Red Hat, but Fedora is not Red Hat. It's really crucial to
> understand that distinction."
>
> so -1 again.
+1 to Joerg, and -1 to co-branding.
--
Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/
gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/
irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug
+ 1
9:51 a.m.
On Tue, 1 Apr 2008, Francesco Ugolini wrote:
> > i will quote GregdeKoenigsberg:
> >
> > "The Fedora brand must evolve separately from Red Hat's brand. Fedora
is very
> > important to Red Hat, but Fedora is not Red Hat. It's really crucial to
> > understand that distinction."
> >
> > so -1 again.
>
> +1 to Joerg, and -1 to co-branding.
OK, then, let me propose something different and a bit less intrusive:
maybe we could put a "corporate sponsorship" slide into the Anaconda
install flow? "Thanks to our corporate sponsors". With a big Shadowman,
and then smaller logos from lots of other companies. Since it would just
be a single slide, we could make it as NASCAR-y as we wanted.
--g
--
Greg DeKoenigsberg
Community Development Manager
Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255
"To whomsoever much hath been given...
...from him much shall be asked"
9:55 a.m.
Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
On Tue, 1 Apr 2008, Francesco Ugolini wrote:
>> > i will quote GregdeKoenigsberg:
>> >
>> > "The Fedora brand must evolve separately from Red Hat's brand.
>> Fedora is very
>> > important to Red Hat, but Fedora is not Red Hat. It's really
>> crucial to
>> > understand that distinction."
>> >
>> > so -1 again.
>>
>> +1 to Joerg, and -1 to co-branding.
OK, then, let me propose something different and a bit less intrusive:
maybe we could put a "corporate sponsorship" slide into the Anaconda
install flow? "Thanks to our corporate sponsors". With a big
Shadowman, and then smaller logos from lots of other companies. Since
it would just be a single slide, we could make it as NASCAR-y as we wanted.
If you are going to say thanks and you got space, thank the community
too. Even Red Hat Linux Anaconda did that and so did the RHEL 5 promo.
Rahul
10:14 a.m.
Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
OK, then, let me propose something different and a bit less intrusive:
maybe we could put a "corporate sponsorship" slide into the Anaconda
install flow? "Thanks to our corporate sponsors". With a big
Shadowman, and then smaller logos from lots of other companies. Since
it would just be a single slide, we could make it as NASCAR-y as we wanted.
Memories... I remember the time when I used to sit trough the install to
read the Anaconda slides: a bit of fun, a bit of Red Hat history, a bit
of marketing. Entertaining stuff.
If we get such slides back (I wonder who would to the job to create
them), I think it absolutely make sense to have one about Red Hat.
--
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com
Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/
Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org
my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro
10:15 a.m.
Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
OK, then, let me propose something different and a bit less intrusive:
maybe we could put a "corporate sponsorship" slide into the Anaconda
install flow? "Thanks to our corporate sponsors". With a big
Shadowman, and then smaller logos from lots of other companies. Since
it would just be a single slide, we could make it as NASCAR-y as we wanted.
I wonder if this will bring back the original reason why we got rid of
the various pictures in Anaconda. Because we can thank someone, only to
have other people we left out upset. We will never remember every
individual or company involved. Also how do you justify thanking only
corporations and not individuals by name?
Just playing devil's advocate here. I'm one of the catalysts leading to
Greg's question in this thread.
Warren Togami
wtogami(a)redhat.com
10:19 a.m.
On Tue, 1 Apr 2008, Warren Togami wrote:
I wonder if this will bring back the original reason why we got rid
of
the various pictures in Anaconda. Because we can thank someone, only to
have other people we left out upset. We will never remember every
individual or company involved.
Every company: a relatively small subset. Red Hat clearly deserves the #1
spot here.
Every individual: a simple review of CLA signers.
--g
--
Greg DeKoenigsberg
Community Development Manager
Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255
"To whomsoever much hath been given...
...from him much shall be asked"
11:45 a.m.
On Tue, 2008-04-01 at 10:51 -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
On Tue, 1 Apr 2008, Francesco Ugolini wrote:
>> > i will quote GregdeKoenigsberg:
>> >
>> > "The Fedora brand must evolve separately from Red Hat's brand.
Fedora is very
>> > important to Red Hat, but Fedora is not Red Hat. It's really crucial
to
>> > understand that distinction."
>> >
>> > so -1 again.
>>
>> +1 to Joerg, and -1 to co-branding.
OK, then, let me propose something different and a bit less intrusive:
A quick discussion halt here.
Joerg -- your reply was made to a related but *completely different
discussion*. Greg's comment you quoted refers to a policy, not a
particular action.
Putting any kind of "sponsored by" stuff in Anaconda does not mean we
have suddenly changed all of our policy about co-branding.
One can still be against the concept of co-branding[1] while still
acknowledging sponsorship, partnerships, and other relationships.
Co-branding is a big effort; look at the situation with Red Hat and
JBoss to see how that is going. Personally, I don't think Fedora needs
co-branding to succeed, and it would distract from our mission.
But that's really orthogonal to if we want to show some love for Red Hat
(and other sponsors), as well as showing lots of love for the community.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co-branding
maybe we could put a "corporate sponsorship" slide into the
Anaconda
install flow? "Thanks to our corporate sponsors". With a big Shadowman,
and then smaller logos from lots of other companies. Since it would just
be a single slide, we could make it as NASCAR-y as we wanted.
--g
--
Greg DeKoenigsberg
Community Development Manager
Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255
"To whomsoever much hath been given...
...from him much shall be asked"
--
Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr.
Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com
Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org
gpg key : AD0E0C41
1:43 p.m.
Am Dienstag, 1. April 2008 18:45:59 schrieb Karsten 'quaid' Wade:
A quick discussion halt here.
Joerg -- your reply was made to a related but *completely different
discussion*. Greg's comment you quoted refers to a policy, not a
particular action.
Karsten, i answered direct to a Topic from Greg called
"Associating the Red Hat and Fedora brands?"
<https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2008-March/msg00300...
He asked for opinions and in my eyes this answer was related.
I would love to explain it more eloquent, but i am not so skilled with the
english language. Maybe some of my words are to straight - sorry for that.
First off all, as private Person i have a shadowman sticker on my notebook ;-)
I will try to explain my personal reasons, why this idea is supect for me.
I am not a Marketing Strategic Guy - i am a Fedora Ambassador and i love it,
because there is - besides all the work - fun!
From my perspective a mix with the RedHat Logo will complicate my work as
Ambassador, and this is not fun! ;-)
Nothing against a little sponsored by RedHat - but is this just the
beginning? Where will this end?
What when i want to use a Screenshot or a Artwork for a Poster that contain
the RedHat Brand in Relation with Fedora?
In the past we Ambassadors in Europe had especially Problems to clarify that a
non-RedHat Contributor is not allowed to use the RedHat Brand. And there was
endless discussions about it.
We had a lot work to do in Europe to tell the people that the Fedoraproject is
not a "RedHat-Fanboys use a RedHat produced Community Distribution"-Project!
We had also different discussions with the german press, because their
articles about Fedora started always with RedHat in the Headline - and that
was the wrong exposure. On events i watched other Linux Projects and I always
was proud that the FedoraProject was not so obvious dictated by a Company.
Some of this so-called Community Projects must pay for the booth - because the
Sponsors noise was a little bit to loud. And we in Germany face this Problem
also for Fedora. It is Fact , we all want serios evolution for the
Fedoraproject and everyone in the Fedoraproject tries to improve and do
his "Job" with the best that he can contribute.
Think over what would the Fedoraproject win and what would we lose.
I can only speak as one Ambassador who cover a lot of events, more loss then
win, because i had not one of the visitors who contributed to Fedoraproject
because i told him that we are sponsored by RedHat. They have to know that
they can use the knowledge from the Fedora Project for their work with RedHat
but that is something complete different.
I hope my words offended nobody - this was not my intention.
I have only one voice but still -1 (the third) ;-) -
Cheers
--
Jörg Simon
jsimon(a)fedoraproject.org
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon
Key Fingerprint:
3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688
6:43 a.m.
On Tue, 2008-04-01 at 20:43 +0200, JoergSimon wrote:
Am Dienstag, 1. April 2008 18:45:59 schrieb Karsten 'quaid'
Wade:
> A quick discussion halt here.
>
> Joerg -- your reply was made to a related but *completely different
> discussion*. Greg's comment you quoted refers to a policy, not a
> particular action.
Karsten, i answered direct to a Topic from Greg called
"Associating the Red Hat and Fedora brands?"
<https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2008-March/msg00300...
He asked for opinions and in my eyes this answer was related.
I would love to explain it more eloquent, but i am not so skilled with the
english language. Maybe some of my words are to straight - sorry for that.
First off all, as private Person i have a shadowman sticker on my notebook ;-)
Thanks, your arguments make sense to me and give me more to consider.
Definitely I can see how having a Red Hat brand at events would make
your work harder. For Fedora, we need a process to honor sponsors
without confusing the brand.
- Karsten
--
Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr.
Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com
Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org
gpg key : AD0E0C41
6:08 p.m.
On Mon, 2008-03-31 at 17:26 -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
So I'm going to ask this question to you, the friendly Fedora
marketing
team.
But first, a history lesson:
http://lwn.net/Articles/83360/
Holy Crap!! Didn't know I was involved in that LOL. Or at least I
don't remember most of it, just the initial "what the heck is going on
type thing" and trying to help explain or inform of what I *thought* was
going on. Heh, think a lot of that was people jumping the gun, thinking
it all was gonna start happening "now" and not thinking it might take a
while to get it going/started. Anyway, not gonna start "that" convo up
again..
This is pretty much the most accurate depiction of how the great brand
gulf between Fedora and Red Hat started. And in many people's minds, that
gulf has grown to such an extent that many don't have any way of
associating Red Hat with Fedora *at all*.
So let me ask you:
If, in splash screens for Fedora, we put a tasteful "sponsored by Red Hat"
with the Shadowman logo somewhere small... how would you all feel about
that?
I don't see what that would hurt. Maybe something along the lines of
"Driven by the Community, sponsored by Red Hat!" type thing?
+1 though :)
--
Mike Chambers
Fedora Project - Ambassador, Bug Zapper, Tester, User, etc..
mikec302(a)fedoraproject.org
6:58 p.m.
Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
So I'm going to ask this question to you, the friendly Fedora marketing
team.
But first, a history lesson:
http://lwn.net/Articles/83360/
This is pretty much the most accurate depiction of how the great brand
gulf between Fedora and Red Hat started. And in many people's minds,
that gulf has grown to such an extent that many don't have any way of
associating Red Hat with Fedora *at all*.
So let me ask you:
If, in splash screens for Fedora, we put a tasteful "sponsored by Red
Hat" with the Shadowman logo somewhere small... how would you all feel
about that?
A bit of a odd thing going on here. I just suggested a very similar idea
very recently in the list and two people quoted you to show why I
shouldn't do this. Apparently now that you are for it, I guess it is ok.
Rahul
9:38 a.m.
On Tue, 1 Apr 2008, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
>
> So I'm going to ask this question to you, the friendly Fedora marketing
> team.
>
> But first, a history lesson:
>
> http://lwn.net/Articles/83360/
>
> This is pretty much the most accurate depiction of how the great brand gulf
> between Fedora and Red Hat started. And in many people's minds, that gulf
> has grown to such an extent that many don't have any way of associating Red
> Hat with Fedora *at all*.
>
> So let me ask you:
>
> If, in splash screens for Fedora, we put a tasteful "sponsored by Red Hat"
> with the Shadowman logo somewhere small... how would you all feel about
> that?
A bit of a odd thing going on here. I just suggested a very similar idea very
recently in the list and two people quoted you to show why I shouldn't do
this. Apparently now that you are for it, I guess it is ok.
Heh. :)
Times change. People do too.
But I want to dig deeper into Joerg's objections -- at least, the ones
that don't involve quoting me.
--g
--
Greg DeKoenigsberg
Community Development Manager
Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255
"To whomsoever much hath been given...
...from him much shall be asked"
9:44 a.m.
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
>
> So I'm going to ask this question to you, the friendly Fedora
> marketing team.
>
> But first, a history lesson:
>
> http://lwn.net/Articles/83360/
>
> This is pretty much the most accurate depiction of how the great brand
> gulf between Fedora and Red Hat started. And in many people's minds,
> that gulf has grown to such an extent that many don't have any way of
> associating Red Hat with Fedora *at all*.
>
> So let me ask you:
>
> If, in splash screens for Fedora, we put a tasteful "sponsored by Red
> Hat" with the Shadowman logo somewhere small... how would you all feel
> about that?
A bit of a odd thing going on here. I just suggested a very similar idea
very recently in the list and two people quoted you to show why I
shouldn't do this. Apparently now that you are for it, I guess it is ok.
Co-branding though is something completely different then putting a cute
little Shadowman in some corner saying truthful things.
Kind regards,
Jeroen van Meeuwen
-kanarip
9:49 a.m.
Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote:
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
>>
>> So I'm going to ask this question to you, the friendly Fedora
>> marketing team.
>>
>> But first, a history lesson:
>>
>> http://lwn.net/Articles/83360/
>>
>> This is pretty much the most accurate depiction of how the great
>> brand gulf between Fedora and Red Hat started. And in many people's
>> minds, that gulf has grown to such an extent that many don't have any
>> way of associating Red Hat with Fedora *at all*.
>>
>> So let me ask you:
>>
>> If, in splash screens for Fedora, we put a tasteful "sponsored by Red
>> Hat" with the Shadowman logo somewhere small... how would you all
>> feel about that?
>
> A bit of a odd thing going on here. I just suggested a very similar
> idea very recently in the list and two people quoted you to show why I
> shouldn't do this. Apparently now that you are for it, I guess it is ok.
>
Co-branding though is something completely different then putting a cute
little Shadowman in some corner saying truthful things.
I even gave the same wording "sponsored by Red Hat" so maybe your
interpretations are different. Read the last sentence of my mail.
Rahul
9:55 a.m.
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
I even gave the same wording "sponsored by Red Hat" so
maybe your
interpretations are different. Read the last sentence of my mail.
Rahul
There's enough nuance in the subject line to let the last line look
completely different then you may have intended.
Co-branding !== Showing gratefulness independently
-Jeroen
10:04 a.m.
Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote:
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> I even gave the same wording "sponsored by Red Hat" so maybe your
> interpretations are different. Read the last sentence of my mail.
>
> Rahul
>
There's enough nuance in the subject line to let the last line look
completely different then you may have intended.
Co-branding !== Showing gratefulness independently
The example I gave along with the wikipedia reference which talks about
a form of co-branding showing sponsorship information should have made
clear what I meant, and this seems to be nitpicking. Anyway, if you
agree with the example I gave, then we can just move ahead.
Rahul
9:57 a.m.
Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote:
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> A bit of a odd thing going on here. I just suggested a very similar
> idea very recently in the list and two people quoted you to show why I
> shouldn't do this. Apparently now that you are for it, I guess it is ok.
>
Co-branding though is something completely different then putting a cute
little Shadowman in some corner saying truthful things.
Yeh co-branding is sort of putting the two brands at the same level or
even combining them into one (E.g. AT&T Wireless & Cingular in the US).
That is what I thought you had brought up earlier.
What Greg is asking about now is a bit different as the RH brand in the
proposed case would be, sort of how when you do a conference T-shirt the
main brand is the conference logo and the sponsors are much much smaller
brands on the back.
~m
10:14 a.m.
2008/4/1, Máirín Duffy <duffy(a)fedoraproject.org>:
What Greg is asking about now is a bit different as the RH brand in
the
proposed case would be, sort of how when you do a conference T-shirt the
main brand is the conference logo and the sponsors are much much smaller
brands on the back.
I think we have to pay attention not to be misunderstood, many times i
read in the magazines Red Hat Fedora reviews, not Fedora ones, or
people that ask me how to work in RH (O O,) not how to join Fedora
Project.
I agree to underline the important role of RH in the community and
software development (i just expressed my feelingsi days before), but
keep attention to not increase such confusion.
If you will integrate the logo (the majority express their agreement)
please underline "sposored by" or "heavy sponsored by" RH.
That's only a suggestion.
Regards
Francesco Ugolini
7:03 p.m.
On Mon, 2008-03-31 at 17:26 -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
If, in splash screens for Fedora, we put a tasteful "sponsored by Red Hat"
with the Shadowman logo somewhere small... how would you all feel about
that?
I think I'm OK in principle, but can or should we leave the door open to
list other folks here that also sponsor the Fedora project? Dell, IBM
to name a couple, HP/Intel in the ia64 space, Sun in the sparc space,
Marvell in the ARM space, etc... I'm all for having a little more
shadowman in the branding, but I don't want to make it seem like Red Hat
is the only one throwing resources behind the project. Then again, I
also don't want our artwork to start looking like a NASCAR car.
--
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Fedora Project (fedoraproject.org/wiki/JesseKeating)
GPG Public Key (geek.j2solutions.net/jkeating.j2solutions.pub)
8:03 p.m.
Hi all
If Fedora really needs a Red Hat logo, son roll back to old redhat versions
(i.e Red Hat Community Edition) and thats it...
Things will not change because of Fedora takes a more biggest shadowman
logo.
IHMO
Pablo Barrera
Fedora Ambassador
2008/3/31, Jesse Keating <jkeating(a)j2solutions.net>:
On Mon, 2008-03-31 at 17:26 -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
>
> If, in splash screens for Fedora, we put a tasteful "sponsored by Red
Hat"
> with the Shadowman logo somewhere small... how would you all feel about
> that?
I think I'm OK in principle, but can or should we leave the door open to
list other folks here that also sponsor the Fedora project? Dell, IBM
to name a couple, HP/Intel in the ia64 space, Sun in the sparc space,
Marvell in the ARM space, etc... I'm all for having a little more
shadowman in the branding, but I don't want to make it seem like Red Hat
is the only one throwing resources behind the project. Then again, I
also don't want our artwork to start looking like a NASCAR car.
--
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9:39 a.m.
On Mon, 31 Mar 2008, Jesse Keating wrote:
On Mon, 2008-03-31 at 17:26 -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
>
> If, in splash screens for Fedora, we put a tasteful "sponsored by Red Hat"
> with the Shadowman logo somewhere small... how would you all feel about
> that?
I think I'm OK in principle, but can or should we leave the door open to
list other folks here that also sponsor the Fedora project? Dell, IBM
to name a couple, HP/Intel in the ia64 space, Sun in the sparc space,
Marvell in the ARM space, etc... I'm all for having a little more
shadowman in the branding, but I don't want to make it seem like Red Hat
is the only one throwing resources behind the project. Then again, I
also don't want our artwork to start looking like a NASCAR car.
Right. This is the difficulty. In theory, I want to allow space for
other sponsors as well, but you're exactly right: we don't want it to look
like NASCAR.
--g
--
Greg DeKoenigsberg
Community Development Manager
Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255
"To whomsoever much hath been given...
...from him much shall be asked"
12:06 a.m.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
| So let me ask you:
|
| If, in splash screens for Fedora, we put a tasteful "sponsored by Red
| Hat" with the Shadowman logo somewhere small... how would you all feel
| about that?
isn't this similar to what
https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2008-March/msg00212...
. that thread was against it (or somewhat against) is what i concluded
- --
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1:08 a.m.
Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
So let me ask you:
If, in splash screens for Fedora, we put a tasteful "sponsored by Red
Hat" with the Shadowman logo somewhere small... how would you all feel
about that?
But lately we did work to remove the Fedora "bubble" logo from such
screens and un-brand the graphics to make the life easier for derivative
distros.
I can understand both approaches, but I think we should choose one and
stick with it.
--
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Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/
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2:09 a.m.
On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 11:26 PM, Greg DeKoenigsberg <gdk(a)redhat.com> wrote:
So I'm going to ask this question to you, the friendly Fedora marketing
team.
But first, a history lesson:
http://lwn.net/Articles/83360/
This is pretty much the most accurate depiction of how the great brand
gulf between Fedora and Red Hat started. And in many people's minds, that
gulf has grown to such an extent that many don't have any way of
associating Red Hat with Fedora *at all*.
So let me ask you:
If, in splash screens for Fedora, we put a tasteful "sponsored by Red Hat"
with the Shadowman logo somewhere small... how would you all feel about
that?
I fully understand what Redhat has done, rather doing a lot to keep alive
Fedora, but i am still confused why we need to mention Redhat's affiliation
with Fedora through putting its logo or some complementary statements...?
while on the other hand we are trying for Fedora's NPO to put it independent
project. For a layman prospective i d'nt get idea why a user should know
about affiliation of a strong/big company to an open source project...in
addition there is a lot in media/press about this affiliation, even in
Fedora's history page already mentioned, we as Ambassadors do talk about it
as well...
In my personal opinion i would rather wish to see Fedora a completely
independent project in all aspects, rather known by its parent company.
from my side -1
thanks
--g
--
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Community Development Manager
Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255
"To whomsoever much hath been given...
...from him much shall be asked"
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Blog: nayyares.blogspot.com
9:39 a.m.
New subject: Codecs in Fedora 9
Could someone tell me what the state of mp3 and other non-free codecs is
for Fedora 9? My concern is that I don't see a codeina package and I
(like others) am not able to play flash videos from firefox.
I'm not taking one position or another on what Fedora should do.
However, I would like to be able to tell people how to legally get that
stuff in a way that is in line with Fedora Project policies.
-- Chris Negus
9:48 a.m.
New subject: Codecs in Fedora 9
Chris Negus wrote:
Could someone tell me what the state of mp3 and other non-free codecs
is
for Fedora 9? My concern is that I don't see a codeina package and I
(like others) am not able to play flash videos from firefox.
Well, codeina is still there. The plan is to drop the "paid" codecs and
only keep the gratis mp3 plugin. Refer
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/Meetings/2008-03-11#head-99b276cb1664...
# yum info codeina
Loaded plugins: refresh-packagekit
Installed Packages
Name : codeina
Arch : noarch
Version : 0.10.1
Release : 6.fc9
Size : 369 k
Repo : installed
Summary : GStreamer Codec Installation Application
URL : https://core.fluendo.com/gstreamer/trac/browser/codeina
License : GPLv2.1+
Description: Codeina installs codecs for GStreamer.
Let us know if you have more questions.
Rahul
10:41 a.m.
New subject: Codecs in Fedora 9
On Tue, 2008-04-01 at 20:18 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Chris Negus wrote:
> Could someone tell me what the state of mp3 and other non-free codecs is
> for Fedora 9? My concern is that I don't see a codeina package and I
> (like others) am not able to play flash videos from firefox.
Well, codeina is still there. The plan is to drop the "paid" codecs and
only keep the gratis mp3 plugin. Refer
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/Meetings/2008-03-11#head-99b276cb1664...
# yum info codeina
Okay, thanks. It's not on the install DVD or the live CD. So a user who
doesn't know about codeina already won't get information about mp3
support. Any possibility codeina might still make it on to those media
for Fedora 9?
-- Chris Negus
12:13 p.m.
New subject: Codecs in Fedora 9
Chris Negus wrote:
On Tue, 2008-04-01 at 20:18 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
> Chris Negus wrote:
>> Could someone tell me what the state of mp3 and other non-free codecs is
>> for Fedora 9? My concern is that I don't see a codeina package and I
>> (like others) am not able to play flash videos from firefox.
> Well, codeina is still there. The plan is to drop the "paid" codecs and
> only keep the gratis mp3 plugin. Refer
>
>
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/Meetings/2008-03-11#head-99b276cb1664...
>
> # yum info codeina
Okay, thanks. It's not on the install DVD or the live CD. So a user who
doesn't know about codeina already won't get information about mp3
support. Any possibility codeina might still make it on to those media
for Fedora 9?
That's the plan. Only mp3 support is planned to be retained. Rest of the
paid codecs are being ripped out since the board felt that it wasn't
consistent with the goals of Fedora.
Rahul
4:36 p.m.
New subject: Codecs in Fedora 9
On Tue, 2008-04-01 at 22:43 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Chris Negus wrote:
> On Tue, 2008-04-01 at 20:18 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
>> Chris Negus wrote:
>>> Could someone tell me what the state of mp3 and other non-free codecs is
>>> for Fedora 9? My concern is that I don't see a codeina package and I
>>> (like others) am not able to play flash videos from firefox.
>> Well, codeina is still there. The plan is to drop the "paid" codecs
and
>> only keep the gratis mp3 plugin. Refer
>>
>>
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board/Meetings/2008-03-11#head-99b276cb1664...
>>
>> # yum info codeina
>
> Okay, thanks. It's not on the install DVD or the live CD. So a user who
> doesn't know about codeina already won't get information about mp3
> support. Any possibility codeina might still make it on to those media
> for Fedora 9?
That's the plan. Only mp3 support is planned to be retained. Rest of the
paid codecs are being ripped out since the board felt that it wasn't
consistent with the goals of Fedora.
Re: our Tuesday meeting 1-April...
Notwithstanding our criticism of codeina the way it's currently
implemented, we felt that making this change at a late point in the game
(post-feature freeze) without a clear replacement roadmap was not the
best decision, and that we'll revisit this immediately post-Fedora 9 to
plan for a better solution in Fedora 10.
At this point, codeina should be appearing in repositories again.
--
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10:33 a.m.
On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 4:26 PM, Greg DeKoenigsberg <gdk(a)redhat.com> wrote:
So I'm going to ask this question to you, the friendly Fedora marketing
team.
But first, a history lesson:
http://lwn.net/Articles/83360/
This is pretty much the most accurate depiction of how the great brand
gulf between Fedora and Red Hat started. And in many people's minds, that
gulf has grown to such an extent that many don't have any way of
associating Red Hat with Fedora *at all*.
If people don't know there is an association between Fedora and Red
Hat I don't think they are paying very much attention. It is already
mentioned in the System-About Fedora menu, on the front page of
fedoraproject.org, and countless other places.
So let me ask you:
If, in splash screens for Fedora, we put a tasteful "sponsored by Red Hat"
with the Shadowman logo somewhere small... how would you all feel about
that?
Giving credit and thanks to supporters of the project, whether
corporate or individuals, is a good thing. I think choosing which to
single out might be difficult to do in a fair manner. How many
corporations support Fedora by encouraging/allowing employees to
contribute? What level of support is required to have your corporate
logo on display?
I'd like to maybe be a little more clear about the purpose of doing
this. If it is what can we do to make people think Red Hat when they
hear Fedora then we are thinking about issues not relevant to this
goal (although acknowledging contributors is always a great thing to
do). Are there other ways to perhaps accomplish this?
When I talk with people about Fedora they always learn about the
connection it has to Red Hat, they don't always learn about the
connection it has with many other commercial enterprises and the more
I think about that the more I feel I do a disservice to other valuable
contributors already. A summary of information about which
corporations contribute and how would be nice for ambassadors to have
access to so they can do more to spread the word about the breadth of
support Fedora gets from the commercial community.
John
5:54 p.m.
On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 1:26 PM, Greg DeKoenigsberg <gdk(a)redhat.com> wrote:
If, in splash screens for Fedora, we put a tasteful "sponsored
by Red Hat"
with the Shadowman logo somewhere small... how would you all feel about
that?
Would Red Hat be okay with being able to add other "sponsors" in the
future, if the Board were able to find other entities to make
significant investments into the "make the magic happen" area of how
Fedora works?
-jef
5862
days inactive
5869
days old
marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org
42 comments
24 participants
participants (24)
-
Brian Pepple -
Chris Negus -
Clint Savage -
Elio Tondo -
Francesco Ugolini -
Greg DeKoenigsberg -
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams -
inode0 -
Jef Spaleta -
Jeroen van Meeuwen -
Jesse Keating -
Joerg Simon -
Jon Stanley -
Jonathan Roberts -
Karsten Wade -
Mike Chambers -
Máirín Duffy -
Nayyar Ahmad -
Nicu Buculei -
Pablo Barrera -
Paul W. Frields -
Rahul Sundaram -
sankarshan -
Warren Togami