Greg Dekoenigsberg wrote: I am assuming you are primarily interested in hearing opinion from people outside of Red Hat but yes I would love to be part of such a project. I even suggested it a while back but if now is the right time, let's do it. Rahul

2008/9/24 Greg Dekoenigsberg <gdk(a)redhat.com&gt;: I think it's a pretty cool idea, and something I'd love to be involved in. My only concern would be whether this would be too close to the plans I have for news.fp.o site? We'll eventually get that running, I swear! Jon

How do you mean a sub-brand? I don't know if you saw when I put forward my vision for what I'd like a news.fp.o to look like, but I'd like to try and get content up 3-5 times a week, and I think by building from existing content that already gets created, we can probably fill this quite easily. I don't know if that's more content than you had in mind for a 'sub-brand'. My other worry is that I'd hoped to use news.fp.o as a central location for promoting our various marketing initiatives, and promoting the Fedora brand. Maybe it's just me, but having a Fedora tag under RHM seems like it might weaken that mission a little, making Fedora feel even more like a Red Hat sub project than a stand alone project in its own right - but maybe that's just me being silly. I appreciate the benefits this would also provide us with, though. Being able to work with the professionals at RHM would be a really fantastic resource, and by using existing infrastructure probably save Bret a whole lot of headaches! Jon

Greg Dekoenigsberg wrote: Could Red Hat Magazine's infrastructure handle the posting of the articles, but maybe redhatmagazine.com by default wouldn't show fedora tagged articles, and a news.fpo site could simply be a template that takes the redhatmagazine.com/feed.rss?tag=fedora (or whatever, something like that) RSS feed from RHM's infrastructure and posts it to news.fpo? ~m

2008/9/25 Karsten 'quaid' Wade <kwade(a)redhat.com&gt;: One thing that would be a problem with that is licensing. The content of all documents should be under a similar license.. and when you have extra authors.. do they retain their copyright or are they doing a work for hire (or signing over copyright) to the Magazine . However thats a non-technical problem (like trademarks, editorial control to make sure legal problems don't occur (plagiarism, trademark/patent/copyright infringement, etc.) -- Stephen J Smoogen. -- BSD/GNU/Linux How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice"

Jonathan Roberts wrote: RHM is using Lyceum, *another* multi user fork of WP. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro

Rashadul Islam wrote: Well, it think a more important question is: how the job description will change after this opening? -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro

Greg Certainly that it would have interest of the Fedora community in helping to produce content for the Red Hat Magazine. I believe that many other people would have interest in helping with this project. Erick Goes On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 4:57 PM, Greg Dekoenigsberg <gdk(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: -- http://www.projetofedora.org http://www.mytoons.com/br4in *********************************************** DESIGN LIVRE *********************************************** <<Imaginando Desenhando Animando>>

+1 This concern makes a great deal of sense to me. I think there's some latent brand expectation going on. -Bill Cattey MIT On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 14:47 -0600, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:

It is really a great idea, I would suggest that if we could start Fedora Magazine On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 1:36 AM, Mathieu Bridon (bochecha) < bochecha(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote: -- "A positive attitude can really make dreams come true -- it did for me" With Regards, Aadarsh B Voice: (+62) 817 925 1607

On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 22:42 -0400, Oisin Feeley wrote: I doubt it would be a problem, and it would help distinguish the RHM content from FWN/fedoramagazine.org. This is entirely my vision of how this could work, so take it with that hefty grain of salt. * Consolidate writers and editors of RHM, FWN, and a to-be Fedora Magazine as one virtual team * Create 3.5 distinct web presences: redhatmagazine.com -- as it is right now, just with even more community-focused content fedoramagazine.org -- content that appears in RHM.com tagged as Fedora also appears here. Front page ticker shows FWN. news.fedoraproject.org -- news aggregation that may share some content with *magazine.(com,org) developer.redhatmagazine.com -- same mission as RHM.com, same relationship with fedoramagazine.org, focused on developer content * Work the editorial calendar and such to create a unique voice amongst them, while reducing the work each needs stand-alone. The Red Hat Magazine brand is definitely Red Hat, but it has spent a lot of effort over the years at creating a stand-alone voice within the Red Hat sphere. Dev Fu is in a similar vein. I think there is a lot of room to make a closer association and not lose on the community side, gaining all around. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Community Gardener Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41

Just to say, great idea!!!!!!......will be very much interested to be involved with. -Anwarul On 9/25/08, Greg Dekoenigsberg <gdk(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: -- Microsoft is not the answer, Mircrosoft is the question

Jonathan Roberts wrote: It may be because RHM is already an established brand with a corporate link and a certain audience, so writing for it gives you more prestige. Or maybe because RHM used to pay for contributions? Probably is just because it is already running and working, not a "TO DO" item. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/ Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro

On Wed, Sep 24, 2008 at 11:57 AM, Greg Dekoenigsberg <gdk(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: Beyond the obvious trademark mixing issues already brought up. I would need to have an understanding of how RHM goes about populating content now. Is it (a) RHM editors have to do heavy cultivating of original content by reaching into the RH corporate communication channels or corporate water-cooler backchannels to persuade RH employees to write content or in some way contract people to submit article? or is it (b)Submissions come in organicly for editorial review and the editors essentially pick and mold articles from the que? If its (a) we'll need to have discussion about how a public, volunteer editorial board would be able to do content cultivation without reaching for RH corporate channels to solicit people for content. -jef

On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 6:29 AM, Max Spevack <mspevack(a)redhat.com&gt; wrote: Trademark and branding concerns may make the need for such a conversation a non-starter. But in the context of Greg's original question, I think you are right. If we are going to produce Fedora content using the RHM voice, we'd need to have a reasonably good understanding as to what has been successful strategies for cultivating RHM content, and what strategies haven't worked. I'm concerned that the underlying problem for us isn't the infrastructure but we haven't yet hit on a volunteer sustainable process by which we cultivate content. If all we wanted was to fill space with opinion-mongering. I'm your man. I'll get off the board by the end of the calendar year and dedicate the time I've set aside for fab email to writing poorly punctuated editorial screeds meant for Fedora magazine content. But you know what? I think that is exactly the sort of content you want to avoid as much as possible. If we want to set a higher bar than that, where we aim for some technical meat then I'm not sure we figured out how to cultivate that material. For example. a cleaned up version of Leenart's "Guide to Sound APIs" now appearing on his blog would be something I could see being lifted up into a magazine article. But since its already on his blog, is it no longer worth trying to recirculate in a dedicated magazine since the intended audience has already seen it on the planet? My feeling is, if we we going to do this, we need to figure out a way to make use of gatherings of community members as significant generators of magazine content which can be released over a period of time. Just for example if we had a Fedora "press" person at Plumbers, how much content could have been generated from personal conversations via audio notes or video footage? Can we expect a volunteer press person to pay their own way for a technical conference like Plumbers? Can we turn one of the attendees to a conference like that into a Fedora press person? Put a FUDCon in Fairbanks and I'll help you figure all that out in a controlled environment :->. -jef

On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 8:35 AM, Jonathan Roberts <jonrob(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote: I follow a little. I'm not suggesting that a RHM "takeover" of the work you are doing. But, maybe an opening of RHM means an opportunity to access to additional resources that can help specifically with the things that are most frustrating. So its good to know exactly what has been frustrating your efforts. But in opening RHM means discovering new resources, or better allocating existing resources, to help specifically with the most frustrating aspects of the community vision, then that would be a good thing right? Subverting corporate assets for community benefit is a beautiful thing. Let me assure you, I'm not trying to take credit or trump you or suggest that what you are doing is wrong. It's not wrong, and you get full credit. But at the same time I can't speak for you either. My main concern is just trying to make sure that key ideas as to where help is needed are expressed in the context of this conversation because new people maybe listening with new ears where they had not been paying attention before. If it turns out that people hear me for the first time where they haven't heard you before.... shame on them. If it turns out people are turned off by me...shame on me. If it turns out that I've reinforced what you've been saying all along...great! I'm not overtly enthusiastic, I am cautiously wary. I can't speak to the timing of this conversation on RHM opening up. If RHM does decide to open up, we can't really stop them from doing that. My main concern is having them open up in a way that does not compete with community effort. So if they do open up. I want to know what they think they bring to the table, and what specific problems we need solved and see if there's a good fit for a combined community effort. -jef

On Thu, Sep 25, 2008 at 10:48 AM, Jonathan Roberts <jonrob(a)fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote: If I've got one innate talent, one super human ability, its the ability to prompt people to express rage and frustration. Maybe I should just give in to my destiny to be a super villain instead of pretending that I can use this power for good. -jef"geneticly predisposed to do evil"spaleta

On Thu, 2008-09-25 at 19:48 +0100, Jonathan Roberts wrote: You are experiencing "the Fedora participation effect." It is akin to what happens in other FLOSS projects, combined with a savvy yet slower moving corporate best buddy that throws our orbit into a warble. Two points: * Idea work need not be lost, it can be turned in to compost that feeds the next round of ideas in to fruition. * Critical mass is elusive, you cannot predict when it happens, and then you are in the middle of it. :) Be assured, all of the ideas and work are not loss, it was an important part of getting to critical mass. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Community Gardener Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41

On Thu, 2008-09-25 at 08:07 -0800, Jeff Spaleta wrote: You are hitting core parts of the discussion. I've been thinking about this stuff for about two years, with a few failed starts that mainly relied upon me, myself, and I. I can see a *ton* of methods and value to force multiply. Having a larger group of people in a joint community venture would make a big difference. Leenart's blog post is a great example. We have people writing good content for their blog that could be in one of the Magazines. Sometimes they approach us about re-circulating, which is great. Original publication first would be best. Bigger audience for all of us, etc. Like the value the planet brings, but more so. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Community Gardener Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41

On Wed, 2008-09-24 at 15:57 -0400, Greg Dekoenigsberg wrote: Late to the discussion and obviously biased, but yes. In fact, I have already decided to do that with Dev Fu. I have a draft proposal to the world of communities Red Hat is involved in. The idea is nearly analogous to what you are saying, but I had planned on running it all through myself so as to not have to seek approval. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Community Gardener Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41