10:25 p.m.
stabus report/slight rant time now -- it looks long but please read :)
1) Blocking on release forms. I'm assured RH Legal is working on it. In
the meantime if you're willing to take photos of people and have
their contact information so you can hunt them down with a New and
Improved Release Form then there's no reason stopping you; you just
can't upload them to the wiki yet.
2) As far as I'm concerned we'll be using Lightning Source Inc. (LSI)
for publishing. It'll be on-demand, woo. We've yet to make a decision
on whether to print color or grayscale pages, and what page size we
want (I think I'm leaning towards 8.5" square). Any objectors should
reply to this email.
3) I have no clue how we're getting initial funding. I made some
original contacts with gregdek and spevack but I'm so confused about
it. Somebody who knows what they're talking about with relation to
this (community architecture, etc) please reply to this message or to
me personally.
4) The original plan of publishing four of these books at the very start
seems to be getting... less and less feasible per day. Right now I'm
at the idea of publishing one, 80-page book and selling that. We can
get at least 200 photos in there (more than one per page).
Understanding that we got about 20 or so photos from the wonderful Mo
Duffy at FUDConF11, this will make the target much more feasible.
5) We've got a great number of volunteers on our wiki page[1] but we
could still use more regional photographers. Keep in mind that if you
own a nice camera (generally a D-SLR) and you might have extra time
we'd absolutely love you to volunteer as a regional photographer.
6) Does anybody know what we do to convert bitmap images to CMYK with
free software?
7) Are there any currently unanswered questions people have?
[1]: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Picture_book
--
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1:44 p.m.
On Sat Feb 21 2009 05:25:56 GMT+0100 (CET) Ian Weller wrote:
6) Does anybody know what we do to convert bitmap images to CMYK
with
free software?
Ever tried Cinepaint? Here's a Tutorial:
http://www.behrmann.name/cms/cinepaint/bildbearbeitung/cinepaint_ccorrect...
HTH,
Felix
3:47 a.m.
I have an Image of my Guitar Headstock. The headstock has the Fedora Logo on
it. Would it be ok to submit that.
On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 7:44 PM, Felix Kaechele <felix(a)fetzig.org> wrote:
On Sat Feb 21 2009 05:25:56 GMT+0100 (CET) Ian Weller wrote:
> 6) Does anybody know what we do to convert bitmap images to CMYK with
> free software?
>
Ever tried Cinepaint? Here's a Tutorial:
http://www.behrmann.name/cms/cinepaint/bildbearbeitung/cinepaint_ccorrect...
HTH,
Felix
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6:09 p.m.
On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 09:47:00AM +0000, Keiran Smith wrote:
I have an Image of my Guitar Headstock. The headstock has the Fedora
Logo on
it. Would it be ok to submit that.
I don't see why not, once we start accepting uploads.
--
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2:53 a.m.
Ian Weller wrote:
stabus report/slight rant time now -- it looks long but please read
:)
1) Blocking on release forms. I'm assured RH Legal is working on it. In
the meantime if you're willing to take photos of people and have
their contact information so you can hunt them down with a New and
Improved Release Form then there's no reason stopping you; you just
can't upload them to the wiki yet.
I am sorry to say this, but I feel this process is kind of bogus. One
thing we learned from FOSS is that license proliferation is a bad thing
and on the same line of thought, why Release Forms proliferation would
be a good thing? Using the NIH syndrome is not in the FOSS spirit.
Is hard for me to understand what is the problem if I get a generic
release form for "any media and any purpose" and contribute it under
CLA and an accepted license.
2) As far as I'm concerned we'll be using Lightning Source
Inc. (LSI)
for publishing. It'll be on-demand, woo. We've yet to make a decision
on whether to print color or grayscale pages, and what page size we
want (I think I'm leaning towards 8.5" square). Any objectors should
reply to this email.
The decision about colors and page size would be in direct relation with
the next point, initial funding.
3) I have no clue how we're getting initial funding. I made some
original contacts with gregdek and spevack but I'm so confused about
it. Somebody who knows what they're talking about with relation to
this (community architecture, etc) please reply to this message or to
me personally.
Which is the amount of money needed?
I am sure that if we can put together a god looking PDF format of the
book it would be easier to get help with the funding.
4) The original plan of publishing four of these books at the very
start
seems to be getting... less and less feasible per day. Right now I'm
at the idea of publishing one, 80-page book and selling that. We can
get at least 200 photos in there (more than one per page).
Understanding that we got about 20 or so photos from the wonderful Mo
Duffy at FUDConF11, this will make the target much more feasible.
Count on at least the same amount from various photographers at the Brno
FUDCon.
5) We've got a great number of volunteers on our wiki page[1] but
we
could still use more regional photographers. Keep in mind that if you
own a nice camera (generally a D-SLR) and you might have extra time
we'd absolutely love you to volunteer as a regional photographer.
I think we can count on at least 4 or 5 photographers in EU and a couple
from India, just launch the project...
6) Does anybody know what we do to convert bitmap images to CMYK
with
free software?
I don't have first hand experience with this, but from what I understand
Scribus is all we need - http://wiki.scribus.net/index.php/Category:HOWTO
7) Are there any currently unanswered questions people have?
[1]: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Picture_book
--
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photography: http://photoblog.nicubunu.ro/
my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/
3:37 p.m.
On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 10:53:13AM +0200, Nicu Buculei wrote:
Ian Weller wrote:
> stabus report/slight rant time now -- it looks long but please read :)
>
> 1) Blocking on release forms. I'm assured RH Legal is working on it. In
> the meantime if you're willing to take photos of people and have
> their contact information so you can hunt them down with a New and
> Improved Release Form then there's no reason stopping you; you just
> can't upload them to the wiki yet.
I am sorry to say this, but I feel this process is kind of bogus. One
thing we learned from FOSS is that license proliferation is a bad thing
and on the same line of thought, why Release Forms proliferation would
be a good thing? Using the NIH syndrome is not in the FOSS spirit.
Is hard for me to understand what is the problem if I get a generic
release form for "any media and any purpose" and contribute it under
CLA and an accepted license.
I have been told that we must wait on release forms from RH Legal before
we upload pictures to the wiki. The temporary release forms we got from
spot for FUDCon were for that specific FUDCon only -- also what I've
been told.
I hate to see how we're mostly blocking on this too for pictorial
content but as Paul said later down this thread they're getting on
Legal. I trust that they'll have them done soon.
I also agree that a generic release form under the CLA would be
wonderous. However I am not The Powers That Be. :)
--
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~ Douglas Adams
6 p.m.
Ian Weller wrote:
I have been told that we must wait on release forms from RH Legal
before
we upload pictures to the wiki. The temporary release forms we got from
spot for FUDCon were for that specific FUDCon only -- also what I've
been told.
Max or anyone else,
Can anyone confirm and/or deny that this is the reality of the
situation. Otherwise, we should go ahead and start setting up the
mechanisms for people to upload while we wait.
Jack
6:09 p.m.
On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 07:00:20PM -0500, Jack Aboutboul wrote:
Ian Weller wrote:
> I have been told that we must wait on release forms from RH Legal before
> we upload pictures to the wiki. The temporary release forms we got from
> spot for FUDCon were for that specific FUDCon only -- also what I've
> been told.
>
Max or anyone else,
Can anyone confirm and/or deny that this is the reality of the
situation. Otherwise, we should go ahead and start setting up the
mechanisms for people to upload while we wait.
I pinged spot on IRC but he hasn't responded yet.
--
Ian Weller <ianweller(a)gmail.com> http://ianweller.org
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"Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet."
~ Douglas Adams
7:30 a.m.
On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 07:00:20PM -0500, Jack Aboutboul wrote:
Ian Weller wrote:
> I have been told that we must wait on release forms from RH Legal before
> we upload pictures to the wiki. The temporary release forms we got from
> spot for FUDCon were for that specific FUDCon only -- also what I've
> been told.
>
Max or anyone else,
Can anyone confirm and/or deny that this is the reality of the situation.
Otherwise, we should go ahead and start setting up the mechanisms for
people to upload while we wait.
Yes, it's correct.
--
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8:52 a.m.
On Fri, 20 Feb 2009, Ian Weller wrote:
3) I have no clue how we're getting initial funding. I made some
original contacts with gregdek and spevack but I'm so confused about
it. Somebody who knows what they're talking about with relation to
this (community architecture, etc) please reply to this message or to
me personally.
CommArch is happy to provide the initial funding. I think the first
estimate was under $3k, if I remember correctly? I'm trying to finalize
my team's Q1 budget in the next week, and I'd like to earmark funds for
the picture book in that budget allocation. If there's an updated
estimate, please let me know.
7) Are there any currently unanswered questions people have?
More thoughts later -- I have a meeting in a few minutes.
--Max
10:07 a.m.
On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 10:25:56PM -0600, Ian Weller wrote:
stabus report/slight rant time now -- it looks long but please read
:)
1) Blocking on release forms. I'm assured RH Legal is working on it. In
the meantime if you're willing to take photos of people and have
their contact information so you can hunt them down with a New and
Improved Release Form then there's no reason stopping you; you just
can't upload them to the wiki yet.
Yup, Spot and I are keeping after Legal -- they are working on a
number of issues for us and this is but one of them. This shouldn't
need to be a blocker on most of the project, but I definitely
understand that until we have these forms we may be at a standstill
for the actual pictorial content.
--
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9:32 a.m.
On Fri, 20 Feb 2009, Ian Weller wrote:
1) Blocking on release forms. I'm assured RH Legal is working on
it.
In the meantime if you're willing to take photos of people and have
their contact information so you can hunt them down with a New and
Improved Release Form then there's no reason stopping you; you just
can't upload them to the wiki yet.
I said this to Jack on the phone yesterday, and I'll repeat it here.
Let's route around this. You could conceivably layout an entire book
with stubs of certain photos that you want in certain places without
actually having any of those photos. Selecting the actual photo and
getting a release form could be the *last* thing that we do and doesn't
have to be the first.
I say let's move this project ahead. Jack, do we have a roadmap for all
the things that are needed to make this project happen yet? Let's get
it up on the wiki page and then work off of it.
"When doubts abound, route around!"
--Max
5:08 p.m.
On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 04:32:50PM +0100, Max Spevack wrote:
On Fri, 20 Feb 2009, Ian Weller wrote:
> 1) Blocking on release forms. I'm assured RH Legal is working on it.
> In the meantime if you're willing to take photos of people and have
> their contact information so you can hunt them down with a New and
> Improved Release Form then there's no reason stopping you; you just
> can't upload them to the wiki yet.
I said this to Jack on the phone yesterday, and I'll repeat it here.
Let's route around this. You could conceivably layout an entire book
with stubs of certain photos that you want in certain places without
actually having any of those photos. Selecting the actual photo and
getting a release form could be the *last* thing that we do and doesn't
have to be the first.
Sounds good.
If anybody has any mockups they wanna go for, please submit
them. Or any ideas at all for page design. I'm all ears :D
I say let's move this project ahead. Jack, do we have a roadmap
for all
the things that are needed to make this project happen yet? Let's get
it up on the wiki page and then work off of it.
I've got a roadmap in my head somewhere without any dates on it. From
what I've learned in the past few months on this list, here's what I
envision, in some sort of vague order:
* Approve mockup of page designs
* Compile images and stories
* Place images and stories in book
* Proof stories for typography and content
* Pressure FPL to write foreword
* Approve photo placement
* Create index of people in back
* Other last-minute checks
* CMYK-ify PDFs
* Publish
* ???
* Profit!
No way in hell we're getting this done by F11 so F12 Beta is my target
for being published right now.
--
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~ Douglas Adams
1:38 a.m.
Ian Weller wrote:
If anybody has any mockups they wanna go for, please submit
them. Or any ideas at all for page design. I'm all ears :D
Start with the final decision about page size and also get a decision
about black and white versus full color.
No way in hell we're getting this done by F11 so F12 Beta is my
target
for being published right now.
That is a long time... but I believe the milestone for collecting images
is soon enough so we can count on photos from the Berlin FUDCon (late June)
--
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photography: http://photoblog.nicubunu.ro/
my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/
8:50 a.m.
Nicu Buculei wrote:
Ian Weller wrote:
>
> If anybody has any mockups they wanna go for, please submit
> them. Or any ideas at all for page design. I'm all ears :D
Start with the final decision about page size and also get a decision
about black and white versus full color.
It has to be full color. I don't
think B&W will do us justice...
Jack
3:27 p.m.
On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 09:38:34AM +0200, Nicu Buculei wrote:
Ian Weller wrote:
>
> If anybody has any mockups they wanna go for, please submit
> them. Or any ideas at all for page design. I'm all ears :D
Start with the final decision about page size and also get a decision
about black and white versus full color.
I realized that in the shower this morning. I need to look at my email
when I made a huge listing of what we could get from LSI. (I'd also need
to find it. Blugh.)
All of the PDFs I got from LSI via Doug Berry are stored here:
http://ianweller.fedorapeople.org/lsi-docs/
It mentions that we can get a color-interior paperback at the size 8.5"
by 8.5". I can't quite remember my cost estimate but it's somewhere in
the archives for this list. Are there any objections whatsoever to
having a paperback book of this size and a color interior?
In related news, last call for suggestions on any other publishing
companies or any other things that LSI now offers.
--
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8 a.m.
On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 05:08:55PM -0600, Ian Weller wrote:
I've got a roadmap in my head somewhere without any dates on it.
From
what I've learned in the past few months on this list, here's what I
envision, in some sort of vague order:
* Approve mockup of page designs
* Compile images and stories
* Place images and stories in book
* Proof stories for typography and content
* Pressure FPL to write foreword
Heh, very little pressure required -- glad to do it.
* Approve photo placement
* Create index of people in back
* Other last-minute checks
* CMYK-ify PDFs
* Publish
* ???
* Profit!
No way in hell we're getting this done by F11 so F12 Beta is my target
for being published right now.
The way I see it, this is very much a team-driven project with a
fungible time line. Many teams tend to similarly have two kinds of
projects -- those that are release-driven, backed by a repeatable
(sometimes improving process, and those that are team-driven and are
"done when they're done."
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11:52 a.m.
On Tue, 24 Feb 2009, Ian Weller wrote:
* Approve mockup of page designs
* Compile images and stories
* Place images and stories in book
* Proof stories for typography and content
* Pressure FPL to write foreword
* Approve photo placement
* Create index of people in back
* Other last-minute checks
* CMYK-ify PDFs
* Publish
* ???
* Profit!
My only experience with anything like this is being the editor of my
high school's news "magazine" which was about 90 pages long and came out
4 times a year.
We had a layout process that involved having a mockup of every single
page that started out as a description of what would be on the page.
Each page had an owner responsible for the content for the page, and the
mockup was slowly updated as content came in.
There was a team that made sure that layout felt consistent across the
whole thing -- not that every page is exactly the same, but that there's
a consistent look and feel.
There was a team that was in charge of editing and finalizing content as
it came in, giving the consitent voice to the final product.
What Ian is suggesting feels pretty similar to that.
===
Let's start by drawing a line in the sand of the Meeting on Tuesday
March 10th. Where do we want the picture book to be by then?
Let's assume the book is 100 pages. I'd suggest that we have a list
that describes every single page in the format given above, from the
front cover to the back cover.
===
No way in hell we're getting this done by F11 so F12 Beta is my
target
for being published right now.
Some of Marketing's deadlines are tied to a release, and some are tied
to "whenever they are done". This is in the latter category.
--Max
2:05 p.m.
On Wed, 25 Feb 2009, Max Spevack wrote:
On Tue, 24 Feb 2009, Ian Weller wrote:
> * Approve mockup of page designs
> * Compile images and stories
> * Place images and stories in book
> * Proof stories for typography and content
> * Pressure FPL to write foreword
> * Approve photo placement
> * Create index of people in back
> * Other last-minute checks
> * CMYK-ify PDFs
> * Publish
> * ???
> * Profit!
My only experience with anything like this is being the editor of my high
school's news "magazine" which was about 90 pages long and came out 4 times
a
year.
We had a layout process that involved having a mockup of every single page
that started out as a description of what would be on the page.
Each page had an owner responsible for the content for the page, and the
mockup was slowly updated as content came in.
There was a team that made sure that layout felt consistent across the whole
thing -- not that every page is exactly the same, but that there's a
consistent look and feel.
There was a team that was in charge of editing and finalizing content as it
came in, giving the consitent voice to the final product.
What Ian is suggesting feels pretty similar to that.
===
Let's start by drawing a line in the sand of the Meeting on Tuesday March
10th. Where do we want the picture book to be by then?
Let's assume the book is 100 pages. I'd suggest that we have a list that
describes every single page in the format given above, from the front cover
to the back cover.
===
> No way in hell we're getting this done by F11 so F12 Beta is my target for
> being published right now.
Some of Marketing's deadlines are tied to a release, and some are tied to
"whenever they are done". This is in the latter category.
So back in my undergraduate days, I did *exactly this job* for NCSU
periodicals. I produced the John Donne Journal
(http://english.chass.ncsu.edu/jdj/) for a number of years.
We used Pagemaker for layout. Can I presume that we will be using
Scribus?
--g
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3:18 p.m.
On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 03:05:25PM -0500, Greg Dekoenigsberg wrote:
So back in my undergraduate days, I did *exactly this job* for NCSU
periodicals. I produced the John Donne Journal
(http://english.chass.ncsu.edu/jdj/) for a number of years.
We used Pagemaker for layout. Can I presume that we will be using
Scribus?
Yes. But anything that is done in Inkscape or high-res enough in the
GIMP can easily be imported in so no worries about using those for
mockups right now.
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~ Douglas Adams
12:32 p.m.
On 2009-02-20 at 23:25:56 -0500, Ian Weller <ianweller(a)gmail.com> wrote:
stabus report/slight rant time now -- it looks long but please read
:)
1) Blocking on release forms. I'm assured RH Legal is working on it. In
the meantime if you're willing to take photos of people and have
their contact information so you can hunt them down with a New and
Improved Release Form then there's no reason stopping you; you just
can't upload them to the wiki yet.
Okay, here is the release form:
http://spot.fedorapeople.org/Model%20and%20Contribution%20Release.pdf
(I tried to attach it, but it was too big for mailman)
Please note that the model (person in the picture, person giving quotes)
signs the top part, and the
Photographer (person who took the picture and holds copyright on it)
signs the bottom part. Also, please note that the model needs to be 18
or older.
Right now, we have no mechanism to track this electronically, so its old
fashioned paper and pen. Pick someone to receive them all and keep them
in a folder.
Questions? Comments?
~spot
1:07 p.m.
On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 01:32:42PM -0500, Tom spot Callaway wrote:
Okay, here is the release form:
http://spot.fedorapeople.org/Model%20and%20Contribution%20Release.pdf
Questions? Comments?
It feels too much like giving away my rights perpetually. Also, why
does this have to be an "exclusive" agreement?
1:13 p.m.
I agree with Chuck.
Although I was easily able to sign the model release I received at
FudCon because it was releasing the image I gave, the Red Hat lawyers
seem to want perpetual license to use all aspects of my likeness for
marketing purposes, and MIT, my employer will not permit that.
MIT does not get involved in the marketing of products, and if my
face and title were used in certain contexts, it would conflict with
my employer's strictures on MIT marketing.
-Bill
On Feb 26, 2009, at 2:07 PM, Chuck Anderson wrote:
On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 01:32:42PM -0500, Tom spot Callaway wrote:
> Okay, here is the release form:
> http://spot.fedorapeople.org/Model%20and%20Contribution%20Release.pdf
>
> Questions? Comments?
It feels too much like giving away my rights perpetually. Also, why
does this have to be an "exclusive" agreement?
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3:38 p.m.
On 2009-02-26 at 14:13:36 -0500, William Cattey <wdc(a)MIT.EDU> wrote:
I agree with Chuck.
Although I was easily able to sign the model release I received at
FudCon because it was releasing the image I gave, the Red Hat lawyers
seem to want perpetual license to use all aspects of my likeness for
marketing purposes, and MIT, my employer will not permit that.
MIT does not get involved in the marketing of products, and if my face
and title were used in certain contexts, it would conflict with my
employer's strictures on MIT marketing.
These are very valid points. Red Hat Legal was able to quickly turn
around a new version of this document for us, please look at:
http://spot.fedorapeople.org/Model%20and%20Contribution%20Release%20rev1.pdf
It is no longer an "exclusive" agreement, and it is now bounded to the
Fedora Picture Book only.
Please let me know if there are any additional concerns, Red Hat is more
than willing to work with our needs here.
Thanks,
~spot
5:43 p.m.
On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 04:38:41PM -0500, Tom spot Callaway wrote:
On 2009-02-26 at 14:13:36 -0500, William Cattey <wdc(a)MIT.EDU>
wrote:
> I agree with Chuck.
>
> Although I was easily able to sign the model release I received at
> FudCon because it was releasing the image I gave, the Red Hat lawyers
> seem to want perpetual license to use all aspects of my likeness for
> marketing purposes, and MIT, my employer will not permit that.
>
> MIT does not get involved in the marketing of products, and if my face
> and title were used in certain contexts, it would conflict with my
> employer's strictures on MIT marketing.
These are very valid points. Red Hat Legal was able to quickly turn
around a new version of this document for us, please look at:
http://spot.fedorapeople.org/Model%20and%20Contribution%20Release%20rev1.pdf
It is no longer an "exclusive" agreement, and it is now bounded to the
Fedora Picture Book only.
Please let me know if there are any additional concerns, Red Hat is more
than willing to work with our needs here.
I see no concerns. I talked with Spot about adding a field for the name
of the image on the wiki and he added that.
The final version of the release form is at
https://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/2/2c/Picture_book_release_form.pdf
If you still see any problems with it please let me know.
(ccing spot so he can remember to remove the PDFs from his fedorapeople)
--
Ian Weller <ianweller(a)gmail.com> http://ianweller.org
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~ Douglas Adams
2:47 a.m.
Tom "spot" Callaway wrote:
These are very valid points. Red Hat Legal was able to quickly turn
around a new version of this document for us, please look at:
http://spot.fedorapeople.org/Model%20and%20Contribution%20Release%20rev1.pdf
It is no longer an "exclusive" agreement, and it is now bounded to the
Fedora Picture Book only.
Thanks a lot for the modification, in the past we wanted to use people
photos for the website too, but have not pursued it due to lack of
release forms. However, the test still says "for the Fedora Picture
Book", which *is* bound to the Picture Book only.
Please let me know if there are any additional concerns, Red Hat is
more
than willing to work with our needs here.
Some people expressed the concern about people under 18 years, it
appears we have some such contributors. For them the form should have
also a place where the legal guardian will sign.
Also, I would like a (as official as possible) statement about how the
form can be sent: is OK if I receive it faxed by the model, sign it as a
photographer and then fax to Red Hat? but
printing/signing/scanning/emailing?
--
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/
photography: http://photoblog.nicubunu.ro/
my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/
10:11 a.m.
Nicu Buculei wrote:
Some people expressed the concern about people under 18 years, it
appears we have some such contributors. For them the form should have
also a place where the legal guardian will sign.
I'll ask about this. The age restriction was added because contracts
signed by individuals under the age of consent are generally
unenforceable. (18 isn't the age of consent everywhere, but its a safe
number to use)
Also, I would like a (as official as possible) statement about how
the
form can be sent: is OK if I receive it faxed by the model, sign it as a
photographer and then fax to Red Hat? but
printing/signing/scanning/emailing?
As long as it ends up signed and in a physical folder somewhere, it does
not matter. I leave it up to Ian to determine who will collect these things.
~spot
10:45 a.m.
On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 11:11:05AM -0500, Tom spot Callaway wrote:
Nicu Buculei wrote:
> Also, I would like a (as official as possible) statement about how the
> form can be sent: is OK if I receive it faxed by the model, sign it as a
> photographer and then fax to Red Hat? but
> printing/signing/scanning/emailing?
As long as it ends up signed and in a physical folder somewhere, it does
not matter. I leave it up to Ian to determine who will collect these things.
Mo
Duffy at BOS is keeping all of them. I'm setting up people
internationally to collect these and get them to her as well. I'll
contact her (and a few others as well) about fax numbers or where one
can email scanned versions of them.
--
Ian Weller <ianweller(a)gmail.com> http://ianweller.org
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~ Douglas Adams
9:44 a.m.
On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 04:38:41PM -0500, Tom spot Callaway wrote:
On 2009-02-26 at 14:13:36 -0500, William Cattey <wdc(a)MIT.EDU>
wrote:
> I agree with Chuck.
>
> Although I was easily able to sign the model release I received at
> FudCon because it was releasing the image I gave, the Red Hat lawyers
> seem to want perpetual license to use all aspects of my likeness for
> marketing purposes, and MIT, my employer will not permit that.
>
> MIT does not get involved in the marketing of products, and if my face
> and title were used in certain contexts, it would conflict with my
> employer's strictures on MIT marketing.
These are very valid points. Red Hat Legal was able to quickly turn
around a new version of this document for us, please look at:
http://spot.fedorapeople.org/Model%20and%20Contribution%20Release%20rev1.pdf
It is no longer an "exclusive" agreement, and it is now bounded to the
Fedora Picture Book only.
Please let me know if there are any additional concerns, Red Hat is more
than willing to work with our needs here.
Thanks for shepherding this along, Spot.
--
Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/
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irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug
11:43 a.m.
I'm coming into this a bit late, but I couldn't help but wonder if
there was any discussion with Red Hat legal concerning inserting a
choice of law and choice of forum clause in the Model and Contribution
release. By adding these clauses, the signee would agree to litigate
the issue by the specified law (New York, Delaware, etc.) and location
(presumably most easily accessible for Red Hat/Fedora legal
department). I would be happy to whip something together and pass it
along. (Disclosure: I am an attorney licensed to practice in Michigan).
--Mike
On Feb 27, 2009, at 10:44 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote:
On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 04:38:41PM -0500, Tom spot Callaway wrote:
> On 2009-02-26 at 14:13:36 -0500, William Cattey <wdc(a)MIT.EDU> wrote:
>> I agree with Chuck.
>>
>> Although I was easily able to sign the model release I received at
>> FudCon because it was releasing the image I gave, the Red Hat
>> lawyers
>> seem to want perpetual license to use all aspects of my likeness for
>> marketing purposes, and MIT, my employer will not permit that.
>>
>> MIT does not get involved in the marketing of products, and if my
>> face
>> and title were used in certain contexts, it would conflict with my
>> employer's strictures on MIT marketing.
>
> These are very valid points. Red Hat Legal was able to quickly turn
> around a new version of this document for us, please look at:
>
> http://spot.fedorapeople.org/Model%20and%20Contribution%20Release%20rev1.pdf
>
> It is no longer an "exclusive" agreement, and it is now bounded to
> the
> Fedora Picture Book only.
>
> Please let me know if there are any additional concerns, Red Hat is
> more
> than willing to work with our needs here.
Thanks for shepherding this along, Spot.
--
Paul W. Frields http://
paul.frields.org/
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--
Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
Fedora-marketing-list(a)redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
1:48 a.m.
Michael Naughton wrote:
I'm coming into this a bit late, but I couldn't help but
wonder if there
was any discussion with Red Hat legal concerning inserting a choice of
law and choice of forum clause in the Model and Contribution release.
By adding these clauses, the signee would agree to litigate the issue by
the specified law (New York, Delaware, etc.) and location (presumably
most easily accessible for Red Hat/Fedora legal department). I would be
happy to whip something together and pass it along. (Disclosure: I am
an attorney licensed to practice in Michigan).
I am a potential photographer living in the Europe, the people posing
for me will be most likely from the EU, what do we should care about
states in the USA?
--
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/
photography: http://photoblog.nicubunu.ro/
my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/
8:26 a.m.
Nicu:
Frankly, companies usually use clauses like this to dissuade individuals
from suing them. Effectively, by signing the document the company and
individual agree to the location of any possible lawsuit and what type
of law that is to be applied. In the United States each state has its
own law. Some states' law is more favorable for certain positions than
others. For example, many corporations use Delaware as their state of
incorporation because it is seen as having a body of state law that is
more corporation friendly.
--Mike
Nicu Buculei wrote:
Michael Naughton wrote:
> I'm coming into this a bit late, but I couldn't help but wonder if
> there was any discussion with Red Hat legal concerning inserting a
> choice of law and choice of forum clause in the Model and
> Contribution release. By adding these clauses, the signee would
> agree to litigate the issue by the specified law (New York, Delaware,
> etc.) and location (presumably most easily accessible for Red
> Hat/Fedora legal department). I would be happy to whip something
> together and pass it along. (Disclosure: I am an attorney licensed
> to practice in Michigan).
I am a potential photographer living in the Europe, the people posing
for me will be most likely from the EU, what do we should care about
states in the USA?
8:59 a.m.
Michael Naughton wrote:
Nicu:
Frankly, companies usually use clauses like this to dissuade individuals
from suing them. Effectively, by signing the document the company and
individual agree to the location of any possible lawsuit and what type
of law that is to be applied. In the United States each state has its
own law. Some states' law is more favorable for certain positions than
others. For example, many corporations use Delaware as their state of
incorporation because it is seen as having a body of state law that is
more corporation friendly.
Mike,
I fully understand that, but I am living in the EU and most likely will
never get into Delaware, so the chances of me going into Delaware to sue
Red Hat are ZERO. And why I would prefer a corporate-friendly law in
Delaware instead of a citizen-friendly law from Europe?
And I guess I can claim at any time that not being a native English
speaker (even more, not having *ever* learned English formally) I didn;t
fully understood what I signed. You know, a citizen-friendly European
law may be helpful here :p
Nicu Buculei wrote:
> Michael Naughton wrote:
>> I'm coming into this a bit late, but I couldn't help but wonder if
>> there was any discussion with Red Hat legal concerning inserting a
>> choice of law and choice of forum clause in the Model and
>> Contribution release. By adding these clauses, the signee would
>> agree to litigate the issue by the specified law (New York, Delaware,
>> etc.) and location (presumably most easily accessible for Red
>> Hat/Fedora legal department). I would be happy to whip something
>> together and pass it along. (Disclosure: I am an attorney licensed
>> to practice in Michigan).
>
> I am a potential photographer living in the Europe, the people posing
> for me will be most likely from the EU, what do we should care about
> states in the USA?
--
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/
photography: http://photoblog.nicubunu.ro/
my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/
9:18 a.m.
Hi Nicu:
This is a great point. I may be coming at this from a very lawyerly
perspective. I hope you will forgive me.
Typically, when I am looking at a document for a entity whose position I
am supporting I try to think of ways of how that entity might get into
legal trouble. In this situation, I looked at the proposed agreement
and thought that it might be a problem for Red Hat and Fedora to expose
itself to law suits in multiple locations around the world from people
contesting the use of their photos. This would be very expensive and
time consuming for Red Hat and Fedora as they may have to hire lawyers
in Germany, U.K., Romania, United States, etc. for legal claims that
come up. My suggestion is to limit the locations that Red Hat and
Fedora would have to go to fight such law suits.
On the other hand, I see your point. This is a service that people from
around the world will be using. Having portions in an agreement that
limit photographers to bring legal issues against Red Hat or Fedora only
in the United States may make the agreement less appealing for people to
agree to. Individuals like you who want to make a positive contribution
might be less willing to sign the agreement knowing this.
Ultimately, I don't think the clauses are necessary. I think the odds
of there being a serious lawsuit about this is very small and I don't
think there are going to be multiple claims arising out of a release.
The agreement is pretty standard and straightforward.
--Mike
Nicu Buculei wrote:
Michael Naughton wrote:
> Nicu:
>
> Frankly, companies usually use clauses like this to dissuade
> individuals from suing them. Effectively, by signing the document
> the company and individual agree to the location of any possible
> lawsuit and what type of law that is to be applied. In the United
> States each state has its own law. Some states' law is more
> favorable for certain positions than others. For example, many
> corporations use Delaware as their state of incorporation because it
> is seen as having a body of state law that is more corporation friendly.
Mike,
I fully understand that, but I am living in the EU and most likely
will never get into Delaware, so the chances of me going into Delaware
to sue Red Hat are ZERO. And why I would prefer a corporate-friendly
law in Delaware instead of a citizen-friendly law from Europe?
And I guess I can claim at any time that not being a native English
speaker (even more, not having *ever* learned English formally) I
didn;t fully understood what I signed. You know, a citizen-friendly
European law may be helpful here :p
> Nicu Buculei wrote:
>> Michael Naughton wrote:
>>> I'm coming into this a bit late, but I couldn't help but wonder if
>>> there was any discussion with Red Hat legal concerning inserting a
>>> choice of law and choice of forum clause in the Model and
>>> Contribution release. By adding these clauses, the signee would
>>> agree to litigate the issue by the specified law (New York,
>>> Delaware, etc.) and location (presumably most easily accessible for
>>> Red Hat/Fedora legal department). I would be happy to whip
>>> something together and pass it along. (Disclosure: I am an
>>> attorney licensed to practice in Michigan).
>>
>> I am a potential photographer living in the Europe, the people
>> posing for me will be most likely from the EU, what do we should
>> care about states in the USA?
9:24 a.m.
Nicu,
Whatever, none of this applies to you, I don't think. Either way, we are
going to go ahead and set something up so people can start uploading
pictures and just continue from there...
Jack
Nicu Buculei wrote:
Michael Naughton wrote:
> Nicu:
>
> Frankly, companies usually use clauses like this to dissuade
> individuals from suing them. Effectively, by signing the document
> the company and individual agree to the location of any possible
> lawsuit and what type of law that is to be applied. In the United
> States each state has its own law. Some states' law is more
> favorable for certain positions than others. For example, many
> corporations use Delaware as their state of incorporation because it
> is seen as having a body of state law that is more corporation friendly.
Mike,
I fully understand that, but I am living in the EU and most likely
will never get into Delaware, so the chances of me going into Delaware
to sue Red Hat are ZERO. And why I would prefer a corporate-friendly
law in Delaware instead of a citizen-friendly law from Europe?
And I guess I can claim at any time that not being a native English
speaker (even more, not having *ever* learned English formally) I
didn;t fully understood what I signed. You know, a citizen-friendly
European law may be helpful here :p
> Nicu Buculei wrote:
>> Michael Naughton wrote:
>>> I'm coming into this a bit late, but I couldn't help but wonder if
>>> there was any discussion with Red Hat legal concerning inserting a
>>> choice of law and choice of forum clause in the Model and
>>> Contribution release. By adding these clauses, the signee would
>>> agree to litigate the issue by the specified law (New York,
>>> Delaware, etc.) and location (presumably most easily accessible for
>>> Red Hat/Fedora legal department). I would be happy to whip
>>> something together and pass it along. (Disclosure: I am an
>>> attorney licensed to practice in Michigan).
>>
>> I am a potential photographer living in the Europe, the people
>> posing for me will be most likely from the EU, what do we should
>> care about states in the USA?
9:40 a.m.
Jack Aboutboul wrote:
Nicu,
Whatever, none of this applies to you, I don't think. Either way, we are
going to go ahead and set something up so people can start uploading
pictures and just continue from there...
Sure, we should start accepting images ASAP (I think we now are waiting
for Ian to come with uploading instructions). I was trying just to not
get overboard with legalese (we already waited 2 months for the Release
Forms). Keep It Simple, Stupid.
--
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/
photography: http://photoblog.nicubunu.ro/
my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/
5:13 p.m.
On Tue, Mar 03, 2009 at 05:40:51PM +0200, Nicu Buculei wrote:
Sure, we should start accepting images ASAP (I think we now are
waiting
for Ian to come with uploading instructions). I was trying just to not
get overboard with legalese (we already waited 2 months for the Release
Forms). Keep It Simple, Stupid.
I need people like Nicu to look over the current uploading instructions
and see if they contain all the necessary details. Please don't upload
photos yet, though.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Picture_book#Submitting_your_image
Michael Beckwith is working on an image to announce that we're accepting
images. I'm hoping to flood planet.fp.o as well when we do this,
hopefully by Friday.
--
Ian Weller <ianweller(a)gmail.com> http://ianweller.org
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"Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet."
~ Douglas Adams
5:21 p.m.
On Tue, Mar 03, 2009 at 05:13:53PM -0600, Ian Weller wrote:
On Tue, Mar 03, 2009 at 05:40:51PM +0200, Nicu Buculei wrote:
> Sure, we should start accepting images ASAP (I think we now are waiting
> for Ian to come with uploading instructions). I was trying just to not
> get overboard with legalese (we already waited 2 months for the Release
> Forms). Keep It Simple, Stupid.
>
I need people like Nicu to look over the current uploading instructions
and see if they contain all the necessary details. Please don't upload
photos yet, though.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Picture_book#Submitting_your_image
Michael Beckwith is working on an image to announce that we're accepting
images. I'm hoping to flood planet.fp.o as well when we do this,
hopefully by Friday.
I'm moving things around. New link:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Submitting_images_for_the_picture_book
--
Ian Weller <ianweller(a)gmail.com> http://ianweller.org
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"Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet."
~ Douglas Adams
2:02 a.m.
Ian Weller wrote:
I need people like Nicu to look over the current uploading instructions
and see if they contain all the necessary details. Please don't upload
photos yet, though.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Submitting_images_for_the_picture_book
Let me digress a bit: I am not sure if I understood correctly the
process with release forms. Supposedly I want to submit a photo with
Martin Sourada from the Brno FUDCon. It is correct that what I have to
do is:
1. print the PDF release form and sign it as a photographer
2. mail it to Martin in Prague
3. have Martin sign it as a model
4. have Martin mail it to Max in Amsterdam
If the process is complicated as such, then I would prefer to follow it
*only* for pictures that are to be used in the book, not for all the
proposals.
On the same part about release forms, I feel the need of a clarification
about "of everybody in that image", supposedly the photo is:
http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/photos/fudcon2008brno/day2/153-img_4427.jpg.html
AFAIK, you need release form only for people who are recognizable in
that photo, do I need here signatures from all the people or [how I
expect] only from Martin?
Clarification is important, I don't want to submit this particular
picture:
http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/photos/fudcon2008brno/day1/038-img_4016.jpg.html
but such a rule would effectively bare our something similar.
Now back to the instructions: I think we should understand that 1. the
photographers may not be very good at speaking English and 2. they may
be better with images than with words. So do not ask from them a
completely developed story, but only a story *concept*.
--
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/
photography: http://photoblog.nicubunu.ro/
my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/
4:09 p.m.
On Wed, Mar 04, 2009 at 10:02:00AM +0200, Nicu Buculei wrote:
Ian Weller wrote:
>
> I need people like Nicu to look over the current uploading instructions
> and see if they contain all the necessary details. Please don't upload
> photos yet, though.
>
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Submitting_images_for_the_picture_book
Let me digress a bit: I am not sure if I understood correctly the
process with release forms. Supposedly I want to submit a photo with
Martin Sourada from the Brno FUDCon. It is correct that what I have to
do is:
1. print the PDF release form and sign it as a photographer
2. mail it to Martin in Prague
3. have Martin sign it as a model
4. have Martin mail it to Max in Amsterdam
If the process is complicated as such, then I would prefer to follow it
*only* for pictures that are to be used in the book, not for all the
proposals.
You only need one release form for every photographer-model pair. If
you're uploading a lot of images to the wiki, you can just put something
down like "Soundra-martin-0001 through 0005.jpg" in the filename box.
On the same part about release forms, I feel the need of a
clarification
about "of everybody in that image", supposedly the photo is:
http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/photos/fudcon2008brno/day2/153-img_4427.jpg.html
AFAIK, you need release form only for people who are recognizable in
that photo, do I need here signatures from all the people or [how I
expect] only from Martin?
Clarification is important, I don't want to submit this particular
picture:
http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/photos/fudcon2008brno/day1/038-img_4016.jpg.html
but such a rule would effectively bare our something similar.
IMO photos should focus on a few people. Large group photos would need
everyone to sign the form, I think. So if you did get a photo of
everybody at Brno for the picture book, you'll need everyone to sign a
form. I'm relatively sure this is what Spot would say but I'll check if
you want me to.
Now back to the instructions: I think we should understand that 1.
the
photographers may not be very good at speaking English and 2. they may
be better with images than with words. So do not ask from them a
completely developed story, but only a story *concept*.
Go ahead and fix the instructions as you see fit then.
--
Ian Weller <ianweller(a)gmail.com> http://ianweller.org
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"Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet."
~ Douglas Adams
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marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org
39 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
Chuck Anderson -
Felix Kaechele -
Greg DeKoenigsberg -
Ian Weller -
Jack Aboutboul -
Keiran Smith -
Max Spevack -
Michael Naughton -
Nicu Buculei -
Paul W. Frields -
Tom Callaway -
William Cattey