9:08 a.m.
So, feeling like life has kind of sucked recently, I've been
compensating by buying toys. One of those is a shiny new Thinkpad X1
Carbon laptop. The first thing I installed on it was the F21
Workstation alpha; here's a few impressions...
- The main thing is that resume does not work in F21. Things appear
to suspend just fine, but there is no response to pressing the
blinking power button. I simply have to hold it until it powers
down hard and start over.
Interesting data points: It works fine with an F20 install, even
with the original 3.11 kernel. But it doesn't work on F21, even
booting the F20 kernel. So I don't think it's a kernel thing;
something has changed on the user-space side to screw up the wakeup
event somehow. I'd like to go chasing after it but time is tight;
this particular issue has forced me to go with F20 for now.
- Emacs is *totally* confused about its window size. Any new window
comes up essentially full screen, but the sizes it shows when one
resizes indicates that it thinks its window is quite small - even
though text display works just fine. F20 shows this too, it's not an
F21 specific thing.
- The huge onscreen keyboard seems to be easy to provoke and hard to
make go away; this does seem to be new with F21. Is there any way to
just turn that off? I like my touchscreen, but it's permanently
attached to a physical keyboard a few cm away; I will *never* want
the onscreen one.
- Whatever happened to the ability to associate actions with mouse
button events? That seems to be gone in F20 too? Is that another
one of those things we're not supposed to worry our pretty little
heads about anymore?
Despite that final whine, it mostly looks pretty good. It's only the
resume issue that's a total show-stopper for now. Thanks, as always,
for all the great work.
jon
11:20 a.m.
New subject: Emacs (was: Some F21 Alpha impressions)
On Sat, 4 Oct 2014 10:08:21 -0400, Jonathan Corbet wrote:
- Emacs is *totally* confused about its window size. Any new
window
comes up essentially full screen, but the sizes it shows when one
resizes indicates that it thinks its window is quite small - even
though text display works just fine. F20 shows this too, it's not an
F21 specific thing.
Cannot reproduce. Emacs hasn't changed here anything like that for a very
long time. Even if I remove my current .emacs file, it starts up in the
same way. Only thing I've added to my notes is, I still need to install
the xorg-x11-fonts-misc package for my font customisations.
12:42 p.m.
New subject: Emacs (was: Some F21 Alpha impressions)
On Sat, 2014-10-04 at 18:20 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote:
On Sat, 4 Oct 2014 10:08:21 -0400, Jonathan Corbet wrote:
> - Emacs is *totally* confused about its window size. Any new window
> comes up essentially full screen, but the sizes it shows when one
> resizes indicates that it thinks its window is quite small - even
> though text display works just fine. F20 shows this too, it's not an
> F21 specific thing.
Cannot reproduce. Emacs hasn't changed here anything like that for a very
long time. Even if I remove my current .emacs file, it starts up in the
same way. Only thing I've added to my notes is, I still need to install
the xorg-x11-fonts-misc package for my font customisations.
It may be something to do with the hiDPI screen on the Carbon, and
possibly with GNOME's interface scaling that deals with that. Is it just
that the window is scaled to 4x the size emacs reports?
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net
http://www.happyassassin.net
12:46 p.m.
New subject: Emacs (was: Some F21 Alpha impressions)
On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 7:42 PM, Adam Williamson
<adamwill(a)fedoraproject.org> wrote:
On Sat, 2014-10-04 at 18:20 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Oct 2014 10:08:21 -0400, Jonathan Corbet wrote:
>
> > - Emacs is *totally* confused about its window size. Any new window
> > comes up essentially full screen, but the sizes it shows when one
> > resizes indicates that it thinks its window is quite small - even
> > though text display works just fine. F20 shows this too, it's not an
> > F21 specific thing.
>
> Cannot reproduce. Emacs hasn't changed here anything like that for a very
> long time. Even if I remove my current .emacs file, it starts up in the
> same way. Only thing I've added to my notes is, I still need to install
> the xorg-x11-fonts-misc package for my font customisations.
It may be something to do with the hiDPI screen on the Carbon, and
possibly with GNOME's interface scaling that deals with that. Is it just
that the window is scaled to 4x the size emacs reports?
Afaik emacs doesn't use gtk3 and thus does not get any hidpi scaling.
The font size is just doubled. That *shouldn't* affect the window size
but it might.
Jonathan can you try to install gnome-tweak-tool and set the scaling
factor to 1 (warning: everything will be smaller) to verify that
(default is 0) ?
12:53 p.m.
New subject: Emacs (was: Some F21 Alpha impressions)
On Sat, 2014-10-04 at 19:46 +0200, drago01 wrote:
On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 7:42 PM, Adam Williamson
<adamwill(a)fedoraproject.org> wrote:
> On Sat, 2014-10-04 at 18:20 +0200, Michael Schwendt wrote:
>> On Sat, 4 Oct 2014 10:08:21 -0400, Jonathan Corbet wrote:
...
Afaik emacs doesn't use gtk3 and thus does not get any hidpi
scaling.
The font size is just doubled. That *shouldn't* affect the window size
but it might.
Jonathan can you try to install gnome-tweak-tool and set the scaling
factor to 1 (warning: everything will be smaller) to verify that
(default is 0) ?
I'm not sure which gui toolkit uses emacs (I never looked at the source
code, even if I do, it won't help me much), but for me works fine on f21
with gnome, also when you check about emacs it says
'GNU Emacs 24.3.1 (x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu, GTK+ Version 3.14.0)'
so it does use gtk3 for sometihng. I think the version listed there is
one which was "present" while building/linking...
1:46 p.m.
New subject: Emacs (was: Some F21 Alpha impressions)
On Sat, 4 Oct 2014 19:46:32 +0200
drago01 <drago01(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Jonathan can you try to install gnome-tweak-tool and set the scaling
factor to 1 (warning: everything will be smaller) to verify that
(default is 0) ?
It was already set to 1 — dunno how it got there, but that's what I
had. It won't let me go below 0.5, seemingly.
Anyway, at 1, the reported size of the emacs window does appear to be
half of reality; I get a "normal" window when it thinks the window is
40 characters wide. Not that it has trouble displaying 80 characters
within it...
And yes, I should have said from the outset that this is a hidpi
screen, sorry, that was sloppy on my part.
Thanks,
jon
2:02 p.m.
New subject: Emacs (was: Some F21 Alpha impressions)
On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 8:46 PM, Jonathan Corbet <corbet-ft(a)lwn.net> wrote:
On Sat, 4 Oct 2014 19:46:32 +0200
drago01 <drago01(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Jonathan can you try to install gnome-tweak-tool and set the scaling
> factor to 1 (warning: everything will be smaller) to verify that
> (default is 0) ?
It was already set to 1 — dunno how it got there, but that's what I
had. It won't let me go below 0.5, seemingly.
The scaling factor I talking about is an integer it cannot go to 0.5
... I am currently not in front of a F21 system so not sure how
exactly it is labled in tweak tool but it should be there.
Anyway, at 1, the reported size of the emacs window does appear to
be
half of reality; I get a "normal" window when it thinks the window is
40 characters wide. Not that it has trouble displaying 80 characters
within it...
That's odd but apparently it seems that emacs uses gtk3 so you could
only set the scaling for emacs using
GDK_SCALE=1 emacs
Do you have a screenshot of the wrong looking emacs?
2:23 p.m.
New subject: Emacs (was: Some F21 Alpha impressions)
On Sat, Oct 04, 2014 at 09:02:15PM +0200, drago01 wrote:
>> factor to 1 (warning: everything will be smaller) to verify
that
>> (default is 0) ?
> It was already set to 1 — dunno how it got there, but that's what I
> had. It won't let me go below 0.5, seemingly.
The scaling factor I talking about is an integer it cannot go to 0.5
... I am currently not in front of a F21 system so not sure how
exactly it is labled in tweak tool but it should be there.
I think the one Jonathan is looking at is the Scaling Factor under Fonts.
That's definitely a floating point value. (And setting it to anything other
than 1 puts the accessibility icon on your top bar forever; one of _my_
small gripes.)
The number you're talking about is "Window scaling", under
"Windows" in
Tweak Tool, down at the bottom under HiDPI.
--
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org>
Fedora Project Leader
4:08 p.m.
New subject: Emacs (was: Some F21 Alpha impressions)
On Sat, 4 Oct 2014 15:23:30 -0400
Matthew Miller <mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org> wrote:
> The scaling factor I talking about is an integer it cannot go to
0.5
> ... I am currently not in front of a F21 system so not sure how
> exactly it is labled in tweak tool but it should be there.
I think the one Jonathan is looking at is the Scaling Factor under Fonts.
That's definitely a floating point value. (And setting it to anything other
than 1 puts the accessibility icon on your top bar forever; one of _my_
small gripes.)
The number you're talking about is "Window scaling", under
"Windows" in
Tweak Tool, down at the bottom under HiDPI.
OK, I'll admit that I hadn't updated GNOME from Matthew's repository;
so many of the problems described there seem to be absent on my
machine, so I sort of thought it wasn't needed. Anyway, I didn't have
that HiDPI section at all. So I updated.
Surprisingly little joy has resulted from that move.
The value displayed in gnome-tweak-tool was 1. It wouldn't let me set
it below that. The following sequence is roughly from memory...
- Set to 2. Nothing really appears to change.
- Set back to 1. Windows like gnome-terminal and the tweak tool
miniaturize. Emacs behaves rationally, instead.
- Set back to 2. Everything gets HUGE. I am no longer able to reach
the bottom of the tweak tool window. I'm sure there's a standard way
of moving it up, but it's not in my brain...I'm used to setting
alt-mouse-1 to do that, but that's one of the things you can't do
anymore. So I end up switching to a VC and rebooting.
- The login screen works fine. Once logged in, though, the display is
gray except for a box in the upper left, half the screen's width and
maybe 2/3 of its height. That shows my background and the top
panel as far as it can be seen. Something is clearly hosed in my
configuration, but I don't know what it is. Is there a dconf
incantation to set the scaling factor outside of the tweak tool?
Thanks,
jon
4:16 p.m.
New subject: Emacs (was: Some F21 Alpha impressions)
On Sat, Oct 04, 2014 at 05:08:17PM -0400, Jonathan Corbet wrote:
- Set back to 2. Everything gets HUGE. I am no longer able to
reach
the bottom of the tweak tool window. I'm sure there's a standard way
of moving it up, but it's not in my brain...I'm used to setting
alt-mouse-1 to do that, but that's one of the things you can't do
anymore. So I end up switching to a VC and rebooting.
It defaults to super-mouse-1. You can (and I do!) change it in Tweak Tool
under Windows - find "Window Action Key".
FWIW I think the rationale is that there was a problem with some
applications actually wanting alt-click to mean something. (Dimly remember
someone saying.)
gray except for a box in the upper left, half the screen's
width and
maybe 2/3 of its height. That shows my background and the top
panel as far as it can be seen. Something is clearly hosed in my
configuration, but I don't know what it is. Is there a dconf
incantation to set the scaling factor outside of the tweak tool?
That makes me think of an RFE for the tweak tool -- it should have some way
to reveal the conf option associated with each item.
--
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org>
Fedora Project Leader
9:05 a.m.
New subject: Emacs (was: Some F21 Alpha impressions)
On Sat, 4 Oct 2014 21:02:15 +0200
drago01 <drago01(a)gmail.com> wrote:
Do you have a screenshot of the wrong looking emacs?
Attached, finally. Took me a while to get back to a nominally working
system after the scaling experiment - had to go to backups in the end.
Whatever gnome-tweak-tool tweaks in that case, it's not a simple
reversable transformation.
Anyway, here's an Emacs window being resized; it thinks it's 39x18,
but, as can be seen, it's actually a little more than double that in
both directions.
Setting GDK_SCALE=1 makes Emacs behave rationally, thanks!
jon
9:44 a.m.
New subject: Emacs (was: Some F21 Alpha impressions)
On Sun, Oct 5, 2014 at 4:05 PM, Jonathan Corbet <corbet-ft(a)lwn.net> wrote:
On Sat, 4 Oct 2014 21:02:15 +0200
drago01 <drago01(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> Do you have a screenshot of the wrong looking emacs?
Attached, finally. Took me a while to get back to a nominally working
system after the scaling experiment - had to go to backups in the end.
Whatever gnome-tweak-tool tweaks in that case, it's not a simple
reversable transformation.
Ugh ... I though it would be easier to direct you to tweak tool but
apparently accessing the setting directly would have been a better
idea.
Sorry for that. All that tweak tool does is to set a value in
gsettings which you can do using::
"gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.interface scaling-factor <value>" for
instance
"gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.interface scaling-factor 1" and go back using
"gsettings set org.gnome.desktop.interface scaling-factor 0" or
"gsettings reset org.gnome.desktop.interface scaling-factor"
Anyway, here's an Emacs window being resized; it thinks it's
39x18,
but, as can be seen, it's actually a little more than double that in
both directions.
Oh ok. Well seems like emacs somehow gets this wrong while
gnome-terminal doesn't. The scaling is supposed
to be transparent to applications though so looks like a gtk bug. Can
you file one (upstream if possible) ?
Setting GDK_SCALE=1 makes Emacs behave rationally, thanks!
OK good to hear. What this does is disabling the scaling for emacs but
leave the rest of the desktop / other applications alone.
12:48 p.m.
New subject: Emacs (was: Some F21 Alpha impressions)
On Sat, 04 Oct 2014 10:42:30 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
It may be something to do with the hiDPI screen on the Carbon, and
possibly with GNOME's interface scaling that deals with that.
Ah, yes, that could be true. It escaped me that the described symptoms are
believed to be specific to the testing-hardware and not to F21 and F20 in
general.
12:37 p.m.
On Sat, 2014-10-04 at 10:08 -0400, Jonathan Corbet wrote:
- The huge onscreen keyboard seems to be easy to provoke and hard
to
make go away; this does seem to be new with F21. Is there any way to
just turn that off? I like my touchscreen, but it's permanently
attached to a physical keyboard a few cm away; I will *never* want
the onscreen one.
Settings / Universal Access / Screen Keyboard "off". The setting
probably needs to be moved/duplicated somewhere else now as it seems to
be used by default on systems with touchscreens; can you check if
there's a GNOME bug on that and file it if not?
- Whatever happened to the ability to associate actions with mouse
button events? That seems to be gone in F20 too?
I don't know what you mean. What actions?
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net
http://www.happyassassin.net
12:15 p.m.
On Sat, 2014-10-04 at 10:08 -0400, Jonathan Corbet wrote:
Hey Jonathan, thanks for the feedback.
- The main thing is that resume does not work in F21. Things
appear
to suspend just fine, but there is no response to pressing the
blinking power button. I simply have to hold it until it powers
down hard and start over.
On my own Carbon with F21, suspend/resume seems to work fine, with lid
close, power button or systemctl suspend. Given that you seem to have
ruled out a kernel problem, I would point at systemd as the best
starting point for further investigation. Is your system using EFI for
booting ?
- Emacs is *totally* confused about its window size. Any new
window
comes up essentially full screen, but the sizes it shows when one
resizes indicates that it thinks its window is quite small - even
though text display works just fine. F20 shows this too, it's not an
F21 specific thing.
Emacs is using GTK+ in 'interesting' way, things could certainly go
wrong here. My system is not hidpi, but if I manually force a scale with
GDK_SCALE=2 emacs, it seems to mostly work as I would expect it -
everything is twice as big (except for the content font - thats the area
where emacs is most special).
- The huge onscreen keyboard seems to be easy to provoke and hard
to
make go away; this does seem to be new with F21. Is there any way to
just turn that off? I like my touchscreen, but it's permanently
attached to a physical keyboard a few cm away; I will *never* want
the onscreen one.
To make it go away, use the keyboard button in the lower right corner.
Of course, having it come up unexpectedly is not great, and we need to
improve this.
Sadly hardware is very variable, and there are flip-over laptops where
the keyboard might be physically hidden from you (by the flipped-over
touchscreen), but still be very much present as a usb device.
As a workaround in the short term, disabling the gnome-settings-daemon
cursor plugin will prevent the OSK from being shown:
gsettings set org.gnome.settings-daemon.plugins.cursor active false
- Whatever happened to the ability to associate actions with mouse
button events? That seems to be gone in F20 too? Is that another
one of those things we're not supposed to worry our pretty little
heads about anymore?
What actions do you mean here ? I could imagine at least 2 things you
might mean here - first, the modifier-click to trigger wm actions on the
content of windows or second, various titlebar click actions.
For the first, the modifier we use changed from Alt to Super (that was a
while ago, though, might have already been in F20. The rationale for
this change is to establish Super as the sole modifier used for 'system
actions', and leave Alt/Ctrl/Shift to applications. To change things
back, you can use the tweak tool. In the Windows tab, there is a "Window
Action Key" control that lets you switch back to Alt.
For the second, the same tweak-tool tab has a 'Titlebar Actions' section
which can configure clicks in the titlebar. In F21 final, these settings
will apply in the same way to CSD windows and traditional titlebars
(this change is probably not yet in the alpha image you tried).
12:58 p.m.
On Mon, 06 Oct 2014 13:15:54 -0400
Matthias Clasen <mclasen(a)redhat.com> wrote:
Hey Jonathan, thanks for the feedback.
Thanks to everybody for the responses!
> - The main thing is that resume does not work in F21. Things
appear
> to suspend just fine, but there is no response to pressing the
> blinking power button. I simply have to hold it until it powers
> down hard and start over.
On my own Carbon with F21, suspend/resume seems to work fine, with lid
close, power button or systemctl suspend. Given that you seem to have
ruled out a kernel problem, I would point at systemd as the best
starting point for further investigation. Is your system using EFI for
booting ?
Yes, EFI. I have secure turned off at the moment, but for no particular
reason; everything worked the same with it turned on.
> - Emacs is *totally* confused about its window size. Any new
window
> comes up essentially full screen, but the sizes it shows when one
> resizes indicates that it thinks its window is quite small - even
> though text display works just fine. F20 shows this too, it's not an
> F21 specific thing.
Emacs is using GTK+ in 'interesting' way, things could certainly go
wrong here. My system is not hidpi, but if I manually force a scale with
GDK_SCALE=2 emacs, it seems to mostly work as I would expect it -
everything is twice as big (except for the content font - thats the area
where emacs is most special).
You can see the screenshot I sent for an example of how it looks. Running
Emacs with GDK_SCALE set to 1 makes everything happy again.
The HiDPI pixel scaling stuff seems to be full of surprises, though. I've
been exploring the intersection with external monitors, which is...not
fully pleasing.
> - The huge onscreen keyboard seems to be easy to provoke and
hard to
> make go away; this does seem to be new with F21. Is there any way to
> just turn that off? I like my touchscreen, but it's permanently
> attached to a physical keyboard a few cm away; I will *never* want
> the onscreen one.
To make it go away, use the keyboard button in the lower right corner.
Of course, having it come up unexpectedly is not great, and we need to
improve this.
Just as a data point, this hasn't been a problem at all with F20; something
changed in 21 to make it much more aggressive.
> - Whatever happened to the ability to associate actions with
mouse
> button events? That seems to be gone in F20 too? Is that another
> one of those things we're not supposed to worry our pretty little
> heads about anymore?
What actions do you mean here ? I could imagine at least 2 things you
might mean here - first, the modifier-click to trigger wm actions on the
content of windows or second, various titlebar click actions.
The former.
One other thing I've noticed, while I'm typing, is that something seems to
reset the keyboard map occasionally. The X1 keyboard is a bit weird,
requiring some repairs with xmodmap; occasionally those want to go away.
They are easy to get back, of course, but it's a bit of an annoyance.
Thanks,
jon
1:01 p.m.
On Mon, Oct 6, 2014 at 7:58 PM, Jonathan Corbet <corbet-ft(a)lwn.net> wrote:
The HiDPI pixel scaling stuff seems to be full of surprises, though. I've
been exploring the intersection with external monitors, which is...not
fully pleasing.
Yeah this is a major limitation which is pretty much impossible to fix
under X11. We can do better on wayland (we currently don't but
hopefully will for gnome 3.16).
1:32 p.m.
On Sat, Oct 4, 2014 at 4:08 PM, Jonathan Corbet <corbet-ft(a)lwn.net> wrote:
So, feeling like life has kind of sucked recently, I've been
compensating by buying toys. One of those is a shiny new Thinkpad X1
Carbon laptop. The first thing I installed on it was the F21
Workstation alpha; here's a few impressions...
- The main thing is that resume does not work in F21. Things appear
to suspend just fine, but there is no response to pressing the
blinking power button. I simply have to hold it until it powers
down hard and start over.
Hi Jonathan,
thanks for your feedback. I'm with you point-to-point with all all
things you mentioned in this mini F21 review.
I have a few questions. Do you use LUKS encryption on your laptop? If
you do did you use installed to create luks partitions or did you
create your partition layout manually?
Also have you tried using "debugging" kernel via GRUB menu and then
trying to suspend and resume?
I have same issue with suspend and resume on Lenovo T440s laptop but
for some unknown reason suspend and resume works as expected with
debugging kernel while with regular one it fails to resume.
Check out my bugzilla link - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1162793
Cheers,
Valent.
1:54 p.m.
You are also probably misssing TPM modules!
Thanks to this bugreport [1] now suspend and resume work as expected
on Fedora 21, finally!
Issue was with missing TPM modules! One solution would be to disable
TPM in EFI/BIOS and other to install missing kernel-modules-extra
package.
Now resume finally works!
Also suspend now takes almost twice long, and screen blinks quite few
more times like this: on-pressed_suspend-off-on-off-on-off
But main thing is that both suspend and resume work now as expected.
[1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1164937
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18 comments
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participants (8)
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Adam Williamson -
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drago01 -
Jonathan Corbet -
Matthew Miller -
Matthias Clasen -
Michael Schwendt -
Valent Turkovic