Re: Fedora derivatives branding discussion -- the root problems ...

I've seen a lot of suggestions here. But let's step back and look at the root problems. They are ... 1. The Fedora trademark, and the legal issues under what context people use it, especially in the context of both ... 2. The 100% Redistributable and "Free" guarantee that Red Hat(R), now Fedora(TM), releases have always guaranteed to consumers 3. The past success and infamy due to packaging non-redistributable or non-legally free packages, with software that actually can legally be packaged with non-redistribuable/non-free (not looking at the branding/trademark aspects). With that said, let me tell you my views ... A. Anaconda + Fedora Core/Extras Fedora Core + Fedora Extras are still Fedora Project redistributions. Not only should stock logos be allowed, but we should encourage neither changes or rebranding for these CDs -- except for maybe "Unofficial." That includes Live CDs, as long as 100% of the software they contain are _unmodified_ from Core + Extras, and only boot-time changes/scripts are made. B. Anaconda + Fedora Core/Extras + 100% Redistributable Red Hat(R) Linux gained mass popularity as a base for other distributions because of its 100% Redistributable focus. We should still acknowledge redistributions with 100% redistributable components (and no legal binds), but just accomodate the legal changes required. An alternative logo and disclaimer accomplishes this. C. Anaconda + Fedora Core/Extras + Non-Redistributable On the flip side, Red Hat(R) Linux gained great infamy (and lots of corresponding rhetoric from the community, like from Cheapbytes) because of many vendors *COUGH*Cobalt*COUGH*Sun*COUGH* who wrongly took the goodwill of Red Hat(R) and made it a serious trademark/public domain issue. Let's make no mistake, these distributions will still happen with Fedora -- especially if "B" becomes popular (as it seems it is). Omitting the trademark issues, the software licenses on the packages do legally allow them to be bundled with non-GPL/100% redistributable software. So we _need_ to _deal_ with the trademark issue once and for all. With all that said, here's what I suggest ... i) The Anaconda tools should be modified to include 3 additional logo sets as standard: A. Custom Fedora(TM) B. Unofficial Fedora(TM) Third Party C. No-name Redistribution Let's face it, many people don't like to take the time to customize Anaconda. People are going to abuse the trademark. We need to make it as easy as a script to change the logos from "Fedora(TM)" to something else. If we do offer that, people _will_ do it. If we don't, we'll run into the same trademark hell Red Hat did, because 99% of repackagers aren't going to take the time to rebrand the installer. If you give people the tools to "be legal," they will use them. ii) Standard legal disclaimers Correspondingly to i), we need to come up with standard legal disclaimers for A, B and C. These are just templates that are the defaults, just like the logos and branding. Most importantly, if you _ignore_ "C," we'll just get more people brand "C" in the same way as "A"/"B". We _need_ to address _all_3_. iii) "Click-through" Anaconda tools I think the way to solve this is in the Anaconda tools themselves. When you run any Anaconda tools, you have to create an _explicit_ configuration file that states whether it's A, B or C. If it doesn't exist, Anaconda spits out a complaint to create one, or run a script that creates the settings file for them (prompts them for a few questions). IANAL, but from a legal perspective, if you give someone a tool that notifies them with a click through or they have to run an explicit command, and they _still_ use the trademark _incorrectly_ -- I'd say you've got them by the balls. They have no excuse or ignorance argument. But IANAL. -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, Technical Annoyance b.j.smith(a)ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com -------------------------------------------------- I'm a Democrat. No wait, I'm a Republican. Hmm, it seems I'm just whatever someone disagrees with.