NO meeting this week
by Colin Charles
In case anyone decides to show up, its bi-monthly remember :)
So its next week, just consider it a reminder for *next* week, 1st
September 2005 UTC
--
Colin Charles, http://www.bytebot.net/
18 years, 8 months
Re: Re: Logo -- dog wearing fedora hat with blue gradient "box" in front, then zoom in on box ...
by Luya Tshimbalanga
>I still like Luya's logo, it has such subtlety to it ... but I bet it
doesn't make it past the designers.
Subtility is definitively the key on my design. Within a time, people who first saw this concept will still be curious to look again. Taste of arts is something that is missing inside Fedora Project websire IMHO.
Element periodic looks good but lacks some arts in my point of view. What we need is a balance of developers and users logo that can be easily designed anywhere. A combination of my concept and element might work.
Perhaps this is the last week for selection, we will see how this will turn out.
--
_______________________________________________
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18 years, 8 months
Aaaand OpenSUSE's response.
by Greg DeKoenigsberg
With my comments inline [with square brackets]. Fascinating, no?
====
> This is where OpenSUSE will need to make a choice, right up front, just
> like Fedora has.
>
> The choice Fedora has made: we will not ship software that is encumbered
> by patents. Why? Because we believe that software patents are
> dangerous and wrong. And we consequently run into issues of
> "contributory infringement" and "don't tell users where to get an MP3
> player" and all of that stuff -- just like you're running into right
> now.
I am fully behind that strategy for SUSE-oss, but I guess I wonder, why
SLES or even the SUSE boxed set (not OSS release), should not contain
such a player. We are not like fedora, BTW. I believe this project is
very different as we are actually helping to produce the actual
commercial release and are not just a testbed with no code relations to
the commercial product like Fedora. Hence we should at least think about
ways to solve this issue if not in the -oss releases, but in the boxed
set or SLES releases.
[ Funny how perception works. How can we be a testbed with no code
relations? Aren't those notions counter to one another? ]
> Red Hat will ship these features with Red Hat products because Red Hat
> has no choice -- paying customers expect everything to work out of the
> box. But the Fedora philosophy is different.
We are not like fedora. We are the precursor of the Enterprise/boxed
set products and as such we should think about these issues. And even if
they have been discussed before many times, this needs to be solved and
discussed again to find a solution that suits our users. After all the
reason I do this is to have more and more and more users use SUSE Linux
and not something like W*.
[ This phrase bears repeating: "We are the precursor of the Enterprise /
boxed set products." NOW who's the testbed? ]
> Every time a user is unable to play an MP3 file, it's an opportunity to
> educate. Ogg Vorbis is technically on- par, all of the tools and codecs
> are completely free, and yet the world uses MP3.
>
> Imagine a user clicking on an MP3 file, and a mock- player that comes up
> and plays a pre- loaded OGG explaining why MP3s suck. And if you decide
> to pay for the use of the MP3 codec, pay for the ability to ship a tool
> that converts MP3s to OGGs.
>
> It's a hard choice. On the one hand: users. On the other hand:
> freedom. And it's a choice we make in our world all the time.
If you want to be commercially competitive and if Red Hat does it already
(and other distro's) then we must do it too. There is no choice. The user
always comes first. And competing with other distro's certainly right
after that. After all our official goals are to be more user oriented than
other distro's are.
[ Interesting. "There is no choice." "Ship MP3 players in our free
distro or die." "WE MUST BECOME COMPETITIVE." What this really means is
that our message -- software freedom *matters* to the open source
community -- can be played in sharp contrast to openSUSE. ]
Again Fedora model is not openSUSE model. It is quite different. We
actually get to say what is the actual commercial release, but Fedora is
codewise not really related to EL.
[ It's really interesting how they're copying the Fedora / Red Hat model
*exactly*, and yet don't even seem to realize it. The Fedora of today
*is* the RHEL of tomorrow -- or at least there's a good 98% overlap -- and
yet somehow Andreas perceives that "Fedora is codewise not really related
to EL." ]
> Choose carefully, and good luck as you move forward. I'm excited to be
> following along. :)
I am very excited too, even though I probably rather not just follow
along, but prefer to be more active. I thoroughly believe that the
openSUSE project is an amazing fresh wind in the distro world and will
produce amazing SUSE Linux releases, which in time will leave other
distro's far behind and really compete with W*, when it comes to
innovation, commercial integration and stability. Can't wait for 10.1
where we are actually going to be able to ask and integrate features.
And once we have build servers, well I can tell you I am very excited to
be following along there ;) ....... and compile my heart out ;) ....
[ I fail to see how openSUSE is an amazing fresh wind, but hey. I suppose
it's fair to say that I'm biased. :) ]
Go SUSE go ... but we still need to discuss and solve this issue!
===
--g
18 years, 8 months
Something I sent to the OpenSUSE list.
by Greg DeKoenigsberg
Something to chew on. Looks like they're running into the same issues we
are. I'd like to see them stand with us.
--g
On Wed, 24 Aug 2005, Andreas Girardet wrote:
> I don't really see that, since SLES based products like OES contain
> commercial software (like edirectory and so on), which requires a
> license to be paid. As I said. I would not have any issue in paying a
> license for such a central feature like proper media support. I think
> that whatever it is there needs to be a way to match what Windows is
> offering. If rules are there to stop us to be competitive then the rule
> is wrong. If laws prohibit us to be competitive then we need to find a
> way to comply to the law either by paying a fee to the copyright holders
> or by other means. This needs to be sorted ........
This is where OpenSUSE will need to make a choice, right up front, just
like Fedora has.
The choice Fedora has made: we will not ship software that is encumbered
by patents. Why? Because we believe that software patents are dangerous
and wrong. And we consequently run into issues of "contributory
infringement" and "don't tell users where to get an MP3 player" and all of
that stuff -- just like you're running into right now.
Red Hat will ship these features with Red Hat products because Red Hat has
no choice -- paying customers expect everything to work out of the box.
But the Fedora philosophy is different.
Every time a user is unable to play an MP3 file, it's an opportunity to
educate. Ogg Vorbis is technically on-par, all of the tools and codecs
are completely free, and yet the world uses MP3.
Imagine a user clicking on an MP3 file, and a mock-player that comes up
and plays a pre-loaded OGG explaining why MP3s suck. And if you decide to
pay for the use of the MP3 codec, pay for the ability to ship a tool that
converts MP3s to OGGs.
It's a hard choice. On the one hand: users. On the other hand: freedom.
And it's a choice we make in our world all the time.
Choose carefully, and good luck as you move forward. I'm excited to be
following along. :)
--g
_____________________ ____________________________________________
Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have
Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the
Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the
] [ dumb. --mcluhan
18 years, 8 months
Re: Fedora-marketing-list Digest, Vol 14, Issue 24
by Luya Tshimbalanga
I remember Warren Togami talked about fedorausers.org during LinuxWorld San
Francisco 2005. I wonder if we can just improve that site in a combination
of fedorafaq.org and Fedora Guide.
Thanks
Luya
> Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 17:24:22 +0530
> From: Rahul Sundaram <sundaram(a)redhat.com>
> Subject: Re: Unfortunate articles
> To: Discussions on expanding the Fedora user base
> <fedora-marketing-list(a)redhat.com>
> Message-ID: <430719EE.6020509(a)redhat.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote:
>
> > For those that haven't seen the post.
> > http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=73215
> >
> > I would like to congratulate Rahul on remaining calm I'm not sure how
> > many valiums (typo possibly) you took but just reading it I was getting
> > angry at his constant criticisms which didn't entail offering any help.
> >
> > I understand he's entitled to his opinion and I sorta appreciate it
> > however at what point does it stop :(
> >
> Remember that many of the opinionated people have a lot of energy which
> means that you can convince them to be constructive critics or even
> voracious participants. Pay more attention to any valid criticism that
> you might getting and try to address that directly. So the action plan
> is pretty neat
>
>
> * Send feedback and suggestions to authors of outdated material pointed
> out there (done)
> * Myths page for correcting widely spread misinformation (done)
>
> * Show progress in the docs-list by
>
> * Contact the unofficial Fedora guide maintainer and ask
> him to cooperate with the uofficial Fedora FAQ maintainer to ensure
> cooperation (done)
> *Autobuild system and weekly reviews instead of stuff being
> hidden in the docs cvs. Actively call out for participants to show up
> their nice faces ( work in progress)
> * Make release notes more useful by making it easier for
> developers to mark stuff as release notes worthy (done) ?
>
> What are the major accomplishments of this list?. can we have a
> canonical page for that?
>
>
> What else?
>
> regards
> Rahul
>
--
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18 years, 8 months
Re: Logo -- expanding the element idea more ... Fc, Fe, Fl, etc...
by Bryan Smith
A colleague of mine (Brian Ashe) whipped up this one:
http://www.geocities.com/thebs413/Fcore.jpg
I kinda like his [F3,] Fc, Fe, Ff, Fl, etc... nomenclature
more. I think it looks better, at least for English/Latin
character sets.
BTW, definitely think we should stick with the 256x256 title
as the proof/original. We can then scale it down to 128 and
64, possibly 32 and 16 for icons.
--
Bryan J. Smith | Sent from Yahoo Mail
mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org | (please excuse any
http://thebs413.blogspot.com/ | missing headers)
18 years, 8 months
Unfortunate articles
by Marc Wiriadisastra
Hi All,
I have been reading up on fedoraforums and I found some interesting
links to articles.
http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=article-rpm
Thats the article itself. It poses some interesting points and some of
them I feel are valid. The question is though is it an rpm problem or
is it a yum / apt or whatever package management softwares fault. I'd
be interested to hear your point of view. If this has been pointed out
before please forgive my ignorance.
Regards,
Marc
18 years, 8 months
