11:33 a.m.
I mistakenly installed the Gnome Desktop from a live DVD - my SSD is small, and I want
KDE, so I have burned a disk with the Spin. Problem now, though, is that Fedora appears
to have turned UEFI back on, and I can't find any way of getting back to promoting the
DVD drive. Interrupting the boot simply offers me the choice of the existing Workstation
or Rescue. How can I access the spin install?
Anne
2:15 p.m.
On 15/2/18 4:33 am, Anne Wilson wrote:
I mistakenly installed the Gnome Desktop from a live DVD - my SSD is
small, and I want KDE, so I have burned a disk with the Spin. Problem now, though, is
that Fedora appears to have turned UEFI back on, and I can't find any way of getting
back to promoting the DVD drive. Interrupting the boot simply offers me the choice of the
existing Workstation or Rescue. How can I access the spin install?
This sounds like you may have UEFI enabled in your motherboard bios.
When you boot you machine it should display a start up interface that
lets you go into the motherboard bios setup, the key for this is usually
F2 or DEL. Have a look in there to see if it provides any mechanism to
turn UEFI on or off, and whether it provides any mechanism to change to
order of boot device selection and whether that provides any distinction
between UEFI and legacy devices. The motherboard previous motherboard I
had provided that level of functionality with drag and drop boot
ordering with visual UEFI indicators on the device icons, the current
motherboard I have doesn't provide that level of functionality.
Just one question on this, what makes you think that F27 has turned UEFI
back on? I ask this because I am not using UEFI on any of the 3
operating systems I use on this machine as I don't have any efi
partitions, but F27 has installed efi packages and created an efi
directory structure within /boot.
regards,
Steve
> Anne
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list -- users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
4:37 p.m.
On 02/14/2018 09:33 AM, Anne Wilson wrote:
I mistakenly installed the Gnome Desktop from a live DVD - my SSD is
small, and I want KDE, so I have burned a disk with the Spin. Problem now, though, is
that Fedora appears to have turned UEFI back on, and I can't find any way of getting
back to promoting the DVD drive. Interrupting the boot simply offers me the choice of the
existing Workstation or Rescue. How can I access the spin install?
Fedora can't change the BIOS settings. You need to access the BIOS (or
EFI) boot menu. The key needed depends on the laptop brand. HP uses
F9, but others can use ESC or F12 to bring up the menu. And sometimes
you have to start pressing it as soon as the backlight turns on, even
before there is anything on the screen.
6:15 a.m.
Samual and Steve, When I installed Fedora I got the screen where you can turn UEFI off.
Since I wanted to promote the DVD drive over hard disk boot, I turned it off. I thought
that was permanent. However, now I can no longer get to that screen. I have managed
several time to interupt the boot, but I only have the choice of the existing Fedora or
Rescue. Something, which has to be Fedora related, since it worked before, is stopping me
booting from the DVD.
7:02 a.m.
Of course if my previous change was not permanent, it would not be Fedora related. I
still need to find a way to access the boot options, though. In passing - I saw a very
brief message that UEFI is turned on.
8:20 a.m.
Some small progress - I managed to get, from the previously described Fedora options
screen, what looks to me like grub. Tab lists possible commands - and "efi" is
one of them. Does that go at the beginning of grub? If not, where? Thanks
1:24 p.m.
On 02/15/2018 04:15 AM, Anne Wilson wrote:
Samual and Steve, When I installed Fedora I got the screen where you
can turn UEFI off. Since I wanted to promote the DVD drive over hard disk boot, I turned
it off. I thought that was permanent. However, now I can no longer get to that screen.
I have managed several time to interupt the boot, but I only have the choice of the
existing Fedora or Rescue. Something, which has to be Fedora related, since it worked
before, is stopping me booting from the DVD.
You can boot a DVD or USB drive in EFI mode. That's what I use on all
the new laptops that I install. What laptop do you have? Did you try
the suggestions from my last email? Once you get to the GRUB menu, it's
too late. If you watch carefully at the bottom or top of the screen
when you first turn the laptop on or reboot it, there is often a very
brief message saying which key to use to get the boot menu or the BIOS
setup. The key for setup is usually F10 or DEL.
4:09 p.m.
On 16/2/18 6:24 am, Samuel Sieb wrote:
On 02/15/2018 04:15 AM, Anne Wilson wrote:
> Samual and Steve, When I installed Fedora I got the screen where you
> can turn UEFI off. Since I wanted to promote the DVD drive over hard
> disk boot, I turned it off. I thought that was permanent. However,
> now I can no longer get to that screen. I have managed several time
> to interupt the boot, but I only have the choice of the existing
> Fedora or Rescue. Something, which has to be Fedora related, since it
> worked before, is stopping me booting from the DVD.
You can boot a DVD or USB drive in EFI mode. That's what I use on all
the new laptops that I install. What laptop do you have? Did you try
the suggestions from my last email? Once you get to the GRUB menu,
it's too late. If you watch carefully at the bottom or top of the
screen when you first turn the laptop on or reboot it, there is often
a very brief message saying which key to use to get the boot menu or
the BIOS setup. The key for setup is usually F10 or DEL.
As you said, Fedora shouldn't have changed the bios settings, but it
could be possible. I don't use a laptop, I use a desktop, and I would
have said that just plugging in a new graphics card would not have
changed the Bios settings, but when I did that, the first boot dropped
me into the bios setup automatically, where the power saving options
were different (which makes sense because the new graphics card has
different capabilities), but what didn't make sense was the timeout
value for display of the bios setup up message had been changed from 3
seconds to 0 (which I assume means never display it). I have now changed
that to 6 seconds because the original setting I made of 10 seconds was
too long. The keys for entering the bios setup on my motherboard are F2
or DEL, both can be used.
As Patrick said, if you aren't getting the screen that tells you what
keys will enter the bios setup, then as soon as you power on the laptop
hold down the DEL key until either you get the bios setup screen or the
grub menu. If you press the key at the right time and get to the grub
menu then the key you pressed was the wrong one, so I would try each of
the F1 through F12 keys until you find the one that does work, and then,
once you get into the bios setup I would change the timeout to make the
boot messages display for a bit longer so that you can see them and
respond to them in a timely manner if you need to. My motherboard
displays more than just the message about which key enters the bios
setup, it also tells me that F11 will display a device boot menu, which
in my case lists a lot more devices than can be select in the boot
priority order settings.
The screen you are mentioning I have never seen before, as I have never
done a fresh install of Fedora on a system with UEFI available. All
fresh installs I've done were on a system that didn't have UEFI at all,
or a system where I had disabled UEFI before I started the install. My
current motherboard doesn't have an option to disable UEFI if my belief
that on this motherboard I have to enable secure boot to enable UEFI is
incorrect.
regards,
Steve
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list -- users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
4:17 a.m.
I have tried Esc, Fn 1-12 and Del. In each case I have selected a reboot, then hit the
selected key, holding it down throughout the reboot process. None of them gave me the
required screen - all with just the choice between the existing FC and Rescue.
I'm beginning to think that I will have to take out the hard drive, mount it in a
caddy, then hope that Windows disk management tools will see it and allow me to remove
everything. Hopefully at that point I'll be able to reinstall and boot from DVD.
Whether I'll be able to set UEFI off permanently is anybody's guess.
5:53 a.m.
On Fri, 2018-02-16 at 10:17 +0000, Anne Wilson wrote:
I have tried Esc, Fn 1-12 and Del. In each case I have selected a
reboot, then hit the selected key, holding it down throughout the reboot process. None of
them gave me the required screen - all with just the choice between the existing FC and
Rescue.
I'm beginning to think that I will have to take out the hard drive, mount it in a
caddy, then hope that Windows disk management tools will see it and allow me to remove
everything. Hopefully at that point I'll be able to reinstall and boot from DVD.
Whether I'll be able to set UEFI off permanently is anybody's guess.
This is *definitely* not necessary. The BIOS runs before the hard disk
is even read, so there has to be a way to catch it. As far as I can
tell you haven't so far mentioned what the make and model of your
laptop is, so everyone is just guessing. You need to read the docs for
your specific machine to see what the magic key is. In fact strictly
speaking you just need the make and model of the BIOS itself. If you
can't find it, try running 'biosdecode' from the dmidecode package.
That will at least tell you the OEM (i.e. the BIOS manufacturer).
poc
8:51 a.m.
On Fri, 2018-02-16 at 10:17 +0000, Anne Wilson wrote:
This is *definitely* not necessary. The BIOS runs before the hard disk
is even read, so there has to be a way to catch it. As far as I can
tell you haven't so far mentioned what the make and model of your
laptop is, so everyone is just guessing. You need to read the docs for
your specific machine to see what the magic key is. In fact strictly
speaking you just need the make and model of the BIOS itself. If you
can't find it, try running 'biosdecode' from the dmidecode package.
That will at least tell you the OEM (i.e. the BIOS manufacturer).
poc
You're right - It's a Lenovo G510. It was sold as a 64-bit machine, but ISTR that
I always had more success with 32-bit software. Maybe that's what's causing some
of my problem.
I can't get to grips with the interface I'm seeing. There seems to be a huge
amount of software that I can't find, including dmidecode. Searching returns "no
results".
I have also seen signs about vmlinuz - which are incomplete when I see them, and I
haven't found them since. Kernel-core is reporting hardware problems (possibly
missing 3rd party drivers?). Altogether I'm more and more convinced that I have to
somehow completely get rid of this install. I believe this being 64-bit is at least part
of the problem.
9:51 a.m.
GOT IT! - In case someone else reads this thread, this is what you need to know.
If your function keys are marked in orange or blue, you need to hold down the Fn key.
From the Power menu, select Restart and, with the Fn key firmly down, start tapping F2.
(Function keys marked in white shouldn't need this.)
I've now got the Live DVD running. If all looks well I'll install the KDE spin.
Thanks for all the effort you all put in trying to help me.
10:34 a.m.
On Fri, 2018-02-16 at 15:51 +0000, Anne Wilson wrote:
GOT IT! - In case someone else reads this thread, this is what you
need to know.
If your function keys are marked in orange or blue, you need to hold down the Fn key.
From the Power menu, select Restart and, with the Fn key firmly down, start tapping F2.
(Function keys marked in white shouldn't need this.)
I've now got the Live DVD running. If all looks well I'll install the KDE spin.
Thanks for all the effort you all put in trying to help me.
Well obviously you need to hold the Fn key :-) (I know, some things are
only obvious after the fact).
BTW, for future reference I recommend you join this list and use a
proper mailer with a quoting feature. The HyperKitty mail interface is
absolutely terrible, and that's not even the worst part of it.
poc
10:42 a.m.
On Fri, 2018-02-16 at 15:51 +0000, Anne Wilson wrote:
Well obviously you need to hold the Fn key :-) (I know, some things are
only obvious after the fact).
BTW, for future reference I recommend you join this list and use a
proper mailer with a quoting feature. The HyperKitty mail interface is
absolutely terrible, and that's not even the worst part of it.
poc
I've never met this "hold Fn key on any of the other machines I've had.
Join the list - yes, that was always my intention. I dislike web interfaces, much
preferring email. Obviously I made a bad selection somewhere when all this started, and
once started I hesitated to try to change the method mid-stream.
10:55 a.m.
On Fri, 2018-02-16 at 16:42 +0000, Anne Wilson wrote:
> On Fri, 2018-02-16 at 15:51 +0000, Anne Wilson wrote:
>
> Well obviously you need to hold the Fn key :-) (I know, some things are
> only obvious after the fact).
>
> BTW, for future reference I recommend you join this list and use a
> proper mailer with a quoting feature. The HyperKitty mail interface is
> absolutely terrible, and that's not even the worst part of it.
>
> poc
I've never met this "hold Fn key on any of the other machines I've had.
On my keyboard (a Logitech) it's the other way round, i.e. the orange
Fn key selects special functions such as volume control, while the
function keys themselves work directly, so I guess there are lots of
ways to do this.
poc
6:30 p.m.
On 17/2/18 3:55 am, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Fri, 2018-02-16 at 16:42 +0000, Anne Wilson wrote:
>> On Fri, 2018-02-16 at 15:51 +0000, Anne Wilson wrote:
>>
>> Well obviously you need to hold the Fn key :-) (I know, some things are
>> only obvious after the fact).
>>
>> BTW, for future reference I recommend you join this list and use a
>> proper mailer with a quoting feature. The HyperKitty mail interface is
>> absolutely terrible, and that's not even the worst part of it.
>>
>> poc
> I've never met this "hold Fn key on any of the other machines I've had.
On my keyboard (a Logitech) it's the other way round, i.e. the orange
Fn key selects special functions such as volume control, while the
function keys themselves work directly, so I guess there are lots of
ways to do this.
There are lots of ways, I've seen laptops with a blue Fn key to activate
the function keys and numeric keypad, and also have an orange key to
activate special functions. I'm using a desktop with a microsoft
keyboard, which has separate keys for volume, mute and play/pause
controls and even a key for a calculator, but by default none of them
work under linux and I've never investigated what needs to be done to
get them to work, even if it is possible. I'm also thinking of
converting to a razor gaming keyboard to match my razor gaming mouse
(the mouse doesn't work properly under linux with the interfaces that
need to be downloaded, the kernel driver needed to with bluetooth works
fine but the apps don't, and I'm yet to determine whether its an issue
with the apps or the bus which they use (the apps function via the bus
and work fine with the mouse when its on usb but not when its on
bluetooth) where the keyboard has a vastly different setup again.
As a side note to this, in a earlier email on this thread I made
reference to some comments made by Samuel and referred to them being
made by you, at the time I'd been working on another thread on an email
provided by you, and at the time I wrote my comments I still had that
email in my mind, hence got confused between you and Samuel, so I
apologize to both of you.
regards,
Steve
> poc
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list -- users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
7:52 p.m.
On 02/16/2018 04:30 PM, Stephen Morris wrote:
On 17/2/18 3:55 am, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> On Fri, 2018-02-16 at 16:42 +0000, Anne Wilson wrote:
>>> On Fri, 2018-02-16 at 15:51 +0000, Anne Wilson wrote:
>>>
>>> Well obviously you need to hold the Fn key :-) (I know, some things are
>>> only obvious after the fact).
>>>
>>> BTW, for future reference I recommend you join this list and use a
>>> proper mailer with a quoting feature. The HyperKitty mail interface is
>>> absolutely terrible, and that's not even the worst part of it.
>>>
>>> poc
>> I've never met this "hold Fn key on any of the other machines I've
had.
> On my keyboard (a Logitech) it's the other way round, i.e. the orange
> Fn key selects special functions such as volume control, while the
> function keys themselves work directly, so I guess there are lots of
> ways to do this.
There are lots of ways, I've seen laptops with a blue Fn key to activate
the function keys and numeric keypad, and also have an orange key to
activate special functions. I'm using a desktop with a microsoft
keyboard, which has separate keys for volume, mute and play/pause
controls and even a key for a calculator, but by default none of them
work under linux and I've never investigated what needs to be done to
get them to work, even if it is possible.
If it's a Logitech Wave, I have some of them working under XFCE:
1. Go to "Applications->Settings->Keyboard"
2. Select the "Application Shortcuts" tab
3. Click on the "Add" button. In the popup, put in the path to the
command to run and click "OK".
4. Next, press the key on the keyboard to tie to it.
For example, I have "pragha" tied to the musical notes button. "pragha
-t" (play/pause) tied to the play/pause button, "pragha -n" (next) tied
to the fast forward button, "pragha -p" (previous) to the rewind button,
etc. See "man pragha" for details on its flags. You can assign amixer
commands to for the volume up and volume down buttons, and so on.
You can use "showkey" to see which keycodes each key generates (if any).
I'm also thinking
of
converting to a razor gaming keyboard to match my razor gaming mouse
(the mouse doesn't work properly under linux with the interfaces that
need to be downloaded, the kernel driver needed to with bluetooth works
fine but the apps don't, and I'm yet to determine whether its an issue
with the apps or the bus which they use (the apps function via the bus
and work fine with the mouse when its on usb but not when its on
bluetooth) where the keyboard has a vastly different setup again.
Can't speak to that. Bluetooth on Linux has been problematic to me as
well--probably because I really don't grok the various profiles
available, nor how to manipulate them to my liking.
[snipped the rest of the message]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
- Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, AllDigital ricks(a)alldigital.com -
- AIM/Skype: therps2 ICQ: 22643734 Yahoo: origrps2 -
- -
- UNIX is actually quite user friendly. The problem is that it's -
- just very picky of who its friends are! -
----------------------------------------------------------------------
1:38 a.m.
On Saturday, 17 February 2018 00.30.34 WET Stephen Morris wrote:
I'm using a desktop with a microsoft
keyboard, which has separate keys for volume, mute and play/pause
controls and even a key for a calculator, but by default none of them
work under linux and I've never investigated what needs to be done to
get them to work, even if it is possible.
I have also a keyboard like that and the only key that does not work by default is the
"calculator" key that is over the numerical section.
FWIW I am using plasma (kde) on X11. I am not sure if this is different on wayland based
desktops.
Each key as an associated code (that I can see with xev), e.g. the key to play/pause media
is
associated with XF86AudioPlay. Actually most of the time the names are self-evident.
This is similar to what happens when you press the Fn key together with the associated
orange
key the code is the same XF86AudioPlay.
Actually I have these two options at the same time, if possible I always like to work with
an
external keyboard on my laptop.
So I would expect that those keys should work by default without any configuration.
Regards,
--
José Matos
1:54 a.m.
On 02/16/2018 11:38 PM, José Abílio Matos wrote:
On Saturday, 17 February 2018 00.30.34 WET Stephen Morris wrote:
> I'm using a desktop with a microsoft
> keyboard, which has separate keys for volume, mute and play/pause
> controls and even a key for a calculator, but by default none of them
> work under linux and I've never investigated what needs to be done to
> get them to work, even if it is possible.
I have also a keyboard like that and the only key that does not work by
default is the "calculator" key that is over the numerical section.
Maybe because I'm using gnome even that key works on my keyboard. It's
likely that the play, stop, etc. keys don't do anything by default
because you need to have a program running that would use them. Or
maybe something like a gnome-shell extension.
11:05 a.m.
On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 04:42:15PM -0000, Anne Wilson wrote:
I've never met this "hold Fn key on any of the other
machines I've had.
It's increasingly common as laptop touchpads grow and keyboard
correspondingly shrink. There's no room for a dedicated row of volume,
screen brightness, airplane mode, etc. keys, and so those got combined
into the F-key row. And since most people in Windows or Mac never use
those keys (maybe F1 for help, occasionally), it makes sense to flip
the default sense. If you prefer it the other way, some systems allow
you to flip them in the firmware setup.
--
Matthew Miller
<mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org>
Fedora Project Leader
2:25 p.m.
On 02/16/2018 07:51 AM, Anne Wilson wrote:
GOT IT! - In case someone else reads this thread, this is what you
need to know.
If your function keys are marked in orange or blue, you need to hold down the Fn key.
From the Power menu, select Restart and, with the Fn key firmly down, start tapping F2.
(Function keys marked in white shouldn't need this.)
A lot of Lenovo laptops have a Lenovo button somewhere on the side or
the top. If the laptop is off and you push that button, it
automatically brings you to the boot menu.
5:52 p.m.
On 17/2/18 2:51 am, Anne Wilson wrote:
GOT IT! - In case someone else reads this thread, this is what you
need to know.
If your function keys are marked in orange or blue, you need to hold down the Fn key.
From the Power menu, select Restart and, with the Fn key firmly down, start tapping F2.
(Function keys marked in white shouldn't need this.)
Sorry Anne, I should have realized about the orange or blue coloring.
I'd forgotten that tends to be standard on a lot of laptops, and I
assumed that other people would be familiar with the requirement of
pressing the additional key and which key it was, as usually in those
situations the additional key to press to get the function key is
usually color coded with the same color.
regards,
Steve
>
> I've now got the Live DVD running. If all looks well I'll install the KDE
spin.
>
> Thanks for all the effort you all put in trying to help me.
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list -- users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
10:36 a.m.
On Fri, 2018-02-16 at 14:51 +0000, Anne Wilson wrote:
> On Fri, 2018-02-16 at 10:17 +0000, Anne Wilson wrote:
>
> This is *definitely* not necessary. The BIOS runs before the hard disk
> is even read, so there has to be a way to catch it. As far as I can
> tell you haven't so far mentioned what the make and model of your
> laptop is, so everyone is just guessing. You need to read the docs for
> your specific machine to see what the magic key is. In fact strictly
> speaking you just need the make and model of the BIOS itself. If you
> can't find it, try running 'biosdecode' from the dmidecode package.
> That will at least tell you the OEM (i.e. the BIOS manufacturer).
>
> poc
You're right - It's a Lenovo G510. It was sold as a 64-bit machine, but ISTR
that I always had more success with 32-bit software. Maybe that's what's causing
some of my problem.
I can't get to grips with the interface I'm seeing. There seems to be a huge
amount of software that I can't find, including dmidecode. Searching returns "no
results".
I have also seen signs about vmlinuz - which are incomplete when I see them, and I
haven't found them since. Kernel-core is reporting hardware problems (possibly
missing 3rd party drivers?). Altogether I'm more and more convinced that I have to
somehow completely get rid of this install. I believe this being 64-bit is at least part
of the problem.
If it's a 64-bit machine then install a 64-bit version of Linux.
Clearly your original install is borked in some way, but 32-bit systems
are going to disappear at some point, if they haven't already.
poc
8:11 p.m.
On 17/2/18 3:36 am, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Fri, 2018-02-16 at 14:51 +0000, Anne Wilson wrote:
>> On Fri, 2018-02-16 at 10:17 +0000, Anne Wilson wrote:
>>
>> This is *definitely* not necessary. The BIOS runs before the hard disk
>> is even read, so there has to be a way to catch it. As far as I can
>> tell you haven't so far mentioned what the make and model of your
>> laptop is, so everyone is just guessing. You need to read the docs for
>> your specific machine to see what the magic key is. In fact strictly
>> speaking you just need the make and model of the BIOS itself. If you
>> can't find it, try running 'biosdecode' from the dmidecode package.
>> That will at least tell you the OEM (i.e. the BIOS manufacturer).
>>
>> poc
> You're right - It's a Lenovo G510. It was sold as a 64-bit machine, but ISTR
that I always had more success with 32-bit software. Maybe that's what's causing
some of my problem.
This may not be because your machine is not 64-bit, but rather
the
applications themselves. For example, on 64-bit machines microsoft
recommends to never run their 64-bit version of Office, always run their
32-bit version.
>
> I can't get to grips with the interface I'm seeing. There seems to be a huge
amount of software that I can't find, including dmidecode. Searching returns "no
results".
>
> I have also seen signs about vmlinuz - which are incomplete when I see them, and I
haven't found them since. Kernel-core is reporting hardware problems (possibly
missing 3rd party drivers?). Altogether I'm more and more convinced that I have to
somehow completely get rid of this install. I believe this being 64-bit is at least part
of the problem.
If it's a 64-bit machine then install a 64-bit version of Linux.
Clearly your original install is borked in some way, but 32-bit systems
are going to disappear at some point, if they haven't already.
You mentioned in the title that you are looking at replacing Gnome with
KDE, rather than actually doing that have you considered installing KDE
as an addon, which then enables you to select, at the login screen where
you need to supply your userid and password (assuming you are not
booting directly into the desktop without being prompted for this
information) you can select which of the two desktops you actually want
to boot into, so you can switch backwards and forwards between to two if
you want to?
regards,
Steve
>
> poc
> _______________________________________________
> users mailing list -- users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
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24 comments
7 participants
participants (7)
-
Anne Wilson -
José Abílio Matos -
Matthew Miller -
Patrick O'Callaghan -
Rick Stevens -
Samuel Sieb -
Stephen Morris