What happens if you also remove the battery during the power off period?

On 2018-05-17 at 08:52:08 Chris Murphy wrote: > I've noticed this only a few times, and it doesn't always happen, but > there isn't enough data to form a pattern. > > Fedora Workstation 28 > kernel varies but mainly I use Rawhide kernels to catch bugs > > [ 0.000000] DMI: HP HP Spectre Notebook/81A0, BIOS F.40 02/26/2018 > > Battery is 100% charged. Computer is powered off via GNOME power > button icon thingy. Unplug power cord. Go to bed. Morning I plug power > back into the laptop and boot, and the battery icon indicates > charging, click on that icon and it reports it's charging the batter, > will take 40 minutes until full (80%). > > So how the heck is the battery losing 20% when the laptop is powered > off? I have in the past couple weeks left the laptop overnight in > suspend to RAM mode, unplugged from power, and in the morning it's 90% > charged, which makes some sense I guess even though that still seems > like a lot of loss. But 20% powered off makes no sense. > > The first time this happened I was suspicious of my own memory: OK > maybe I left it in suspend even though I'm 99% certain I powered it > off, but which is more likely, that I'm being spacey or that the > laptop discharged 20% overnight while powered off? But this time I am > certain it was powered off. > > Anyway, it's been charging a bit before I ran this: > > > [chris@f28h ~]$ upower -i /org/freedesktop/UPower/devices/battery_BAT1 > native-path: BAT1 > vendor: Hewlett-Packard > model: PABAS0241231 > serial: 41167 > power supply: yes > updated: Thu 17 May 2018 08:42:18 AM MDT (45 seconds ago) > has history: yes > has statistics: yes > battery > present: yes > rechargeable: yes > state: charging > warning-level: none > energy: 27.412 Wh > energy-empty: 0 Wh > energy-full: 31.5161 Wh > energy-full-design: 38.115 Wh > energy-rate: 6.7067 W > voltage: 8.743 V > time to full: 36.7 minutes > percentage: 86% > capacity: 82.6869% > technology: lithium-ion > icon-name: 'battery-full-charging-symbolic' > History (rate): > 1526568138 6.707 charging > > [chris@f28h ~]$ > > > Pretty weird. > > What happens if you also remove the battery during the power off period?

Check this out. After fully charging from this morning? [chris@f28h ~]$ upower -i /org/freedesktop/UPower/devices/battery_BAT1 native-path: BAT1 vendor: Hewlett-Packard model: PABAS0241231 serial: 41167 power supply: yes updated: Thu 17 May 2018 04:59:54 PM MDT (14 seconds ago) has history: yes has statistics: yes battery present: yes rechargeable: yes state: fully-charged warning-level: none energy: 29.1522 Wh energy-empty: 0 Wh energy-full: 29.1522 Wh energy-full-design: 38.115 Wh energy-rate: 0 W voltage: 8.671 V percentage: 100% capacity: 76.4848% technology: lithium-ion icon-name: 'battery-full-charged-symbolic' [chris@f28h ~]$ How does capacity go from 82.68% this morning to 76.48% this afternoon? This laptop is ~18 months old.

[root@f28h ~]# cat /sys/class/power_supply/BAT1/cycle_count 0 That's obviously bogus. I'd say 75% of the time I'm working on power, the other 25% or less of the time it's running on battery. It gets battery usage once a week or so.

On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 6:00 PM, Fred Smith <fredex(a)fcshome.stoneham.ma.us&gt; wrote: > On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 05:08:42PM -0600, Chris Murphy wrote: >> Check this out. After fully charging from this morning? >> >> [chris@f28h ~]$ upower -i /org/freedesktop/UPower/devices/battery_BAT1 >> native-path: BAT1 >> vendor: Hewlett-Packard >> model: PABAS0241231 >> serial: 41167 >> power supply: yes >> updated: Thu 17 May 2018 04:59:54 PM MDT (14 seconds ago) >> has history: yes >> has statistics: yes >> battery >> present: yes >> rechargeable: yes >> state: fully-charged >> warning-level: none >> energy: 29.1522 Wh >> energy-empty: 0 Wh >> energy-full: 29.1522 Wh >> energy-full-design: 38.115 Wh >> energy-rate: 0 W >> voltage: 8.671 V >> percentage: 100% >> capacity: 76.4848% >> technology: lithium-ion >> icon-name: 'battery-full-charged-symbolic' >> >> [chris@f28h ~]$ >> >> How does capacity go from 82.68% this morning to 76.48% this >> afternoon? This laptop is ~18 months old. > > Doesn't make sense, unless this morning it was "percentage" that was 82.68, > not "capacity". (I've certainly misread things like that, and this stuff > is hard to understand because there are no explanations given.) >> >> [root@f28h ~]# cat /sys/class/power_supply/BAT1/cycle_count >> 0 >> >> That's obviously bogus. I'd say 75% of the time I'm working on power, >> the other 25% or less of the time it's running on battery. It gets >> battery usage once a week or so. > > I think what that means is that the battery design was such that when > new the battery would hold 38.115 Wh, but it has now degraded so that > it only holds 29.1522 Wh. > > if you divide 29.1522/38.115 you get 0.764848, hence the "capacity" > now that it has aged a year and a half, is 76.4848% of the original 38.115. > > You'll notice that "capacity" is 100%, which means it's fully charged > for its current place in the battery lifetime curve, i.e., 29.1522 Wh. > > Lithium Ion batteries age like that, its normal. Eventually you get > fed up with it and buy a new battery or a new laptop (or phone or > whatever gizmo we're talking about). The very reason why after a lot of > customer furor, Apple agreed to replace iphone batteries cheaply rather > than raking all those customers of the coals of overly-priced replacement > batteries. First posting for this thread is from this morning: energy-full: 31.5161 Wh energy-full-design: 38.115 Wh ... percentage: 86% capacity: 82.6869% And this afternoon. energy-full: 29.1522 Wh energy-full-design: 38.115 Wh ... percentage: 100% capacity: 76.4848% Somehow energy-full has changed quite a bit in just 1/2 a day.

state: fully-charged warning-level: none energy: 27.7816 Wh energy-empty: 0 Wh energy-full: 27.7816 Wh energy-full-design: 38.115 Wh energy-rate: 0 W voltage: 8.648 V percentage: 100% capacity: 72.8889% technology: lithium-ion energy-full did bounce back ~0.5, but basically in one day the energy-full/capacity% dropped nearly 10%. Sounds like a sick battery or something.

On 05/21/2018 09:06 AM, Wolfgang Pfeiffer wrote: > > I'd try retraining the battery for longer run-time until empty: Depleting the battery fully does not extend the run-time of the battery. It will sometimes re-calibrate the battery controller and improve its estimates, but it does reduce the battery's ability to hold a charge. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2014/04/ask-ars-the-best-way-to-use-a -lithium-ion-battery-redux/ _______________________________________________ users mailing list -- users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelin es List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@li sts.fedoraproject.org/message/OU2GRNDH5TX5QUX7J6AQRPYRGPAX74AT/