1:31 a.m.
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 21:59:50 +0100
From: "Sharpe, Sam J" <sam.sharpe+lists.redhat(a)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Guess who's right behind Ubuntu at Distrowatch
To: "Community assistance, encouragement, and advice for using
Fedora." <fedora-list(a)redhat.com>
Message-ID:
<a21b301b0909111359h2ed0a938se4a40c5e2b02e4c3(a)mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
2009/9/11 Kavon Farvardin <kavon89(a)gmail.com>:
> Fedora is as easy as Ubuntu to use (and I've less issues than with
> Ubuntu), I don't see what the fuss is about
Fedora colour scheme is predominantly blue.
Ubuntu colour scheme is predominantly brown
</end differences>
--
Sam
I wouldn't be so sure. They're about half of year back. And they use
deb-packages - there's no yum. Recently I installed Ubuntu 9.04
(Jaunty) on my girlfriend' laptop. I never entered root pass during
installation process. Instead I created user for her and sudo entry
was created automatically.
--
Hiisi.
Registered Linux User #487982. Be counted at: http://counter.li.org/
--
Spandex is a privilege, not a right.
------------------------------
pub 1024D/085B139A 2009-09-11
uid Hiisi (Hiisi Troll) <saippua5(a)gmail.com>
sub 2048g/F9138A60 2009-09-11
12:20 a.m.
New subject: Guess who's right behind Ubuntu at Distrowatch
On 09/13/2009 10:39 AM, suvayu ali wrote:
2009/9/12 Rahul Sundaram <sundaram(a)fedoraproject.org>:
> On 09/13/2009 03:17 AM, suvayu ali wrote:
>
>>
>> Does it use rpm as the back end? I thought synaptic is an exclusively
>> dpkg/apt-get front end.
>
> It uses apt-rpm in Fedora.
>
Forgive my ignorance here Rahul, but does that mean apt-rpm does what
yum would do? Would it work with the usual set of the repositories for
fedora? And if I use synaptic do I still get to use yum on the command
line?
All of this, yes. apt-rpm doesn't read comps.xml and doesn't understand
yum groups as a result however.
I also came across the home page for apt-rpm[1], it seems the
project
has been abandoned. An article on wikipedia[2] says the lead developer
has moved on to develop smart, which he considers as the successor to
apt-rpm.
It is currently maintained by Panu who is also the primary upstream
developer of RPM itself.
Rahul
12:09 a.m.
New subject: Guess who's right behind Ubuntu at Distrowatch
2009/9/12 Rahul Sundaram <sundaram(a)fedoraproject.org>:
On 09/13/2009 03:17 AM, suvayu ali wrote:
>
> Does it use rpm as the back end? I thought synaptic is an exclusively
> dpkg/apt-get front end.
It uses apt-rpm in Fedora.
Forgive my ignorance here Rahul, but does that mean apt-rpm does what
yum would do? Would it work with the usual set of the repositories for
fedora? And if I use synaptic do I still get to use yum on the command
line?
I also came across the home page for apt-rpm[1], it seems the project
has been abandoned. An article on wikipedia[2] says the lead developer
has moved on to develop smart, which he considers as the successor to
apt-rpm.
[1]http://apt-rpm.org/
[2]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apt-rpm
--
Suvayu
Open source is the future. It sets us free.
11:41 p.m.
New subject: Guess who's right behind Ubuntu at Distrowatch
On 09/13/2009 01:50 AM, rgheck wrote:
>
That's true, but of course it doesn't do upgrades as cleanly as on
Debian-based systems.
Not sure what you mean by that. However remember the tool is just one
small portion of what makes upgrades work. The release intervals,
packaging, custom packages or configuration etc matters.
Rahul
4:47 p.m.
New subject: Guess who's right behind Ubuntu at Distrowatch
2009/9/12 Rahul Sundaram <sundaram(a)fedoraproject.org>:
On 09/12/2009 10:46 PM, Suvayu Ali wrote:
> On Saturday 12 September 2009 09:13 AM, Tom Horsley wrote:
>> Then there is the "synaptic" tool, which makes all fedora gui update
>> tools look like something scraped off the bottom of a bridge :-(.
>> Since doing updates is a common operation visible to all users
>> across all distros, I've always suspected that synaptic was
>> the primary reason ubuntu was somewhat more popular.
>
> Synaptic is definitely the best gui package manager I have used. Its so
> easy to do everything, even distro upgrades are a few clicks away!
That has nothing to do with the packaging format however. Synaptic is
available in Fedora as well btw.
Rahul
Does it use rpm as the back end? I thought synaptic is an exclusively
dpkg/apt-get front end. I am more at ease with rpm and yum on the cmd
line.
--
Suvayu
Open source is the future. It sets us free.
3:20 p.m.
New subject: Guess who's right behind Ubuntu at Distrowatch
On 09/12/2009 03:54 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 09/12/2009 10:46 PM, Suvayu Ali wrote:
> On Saturday 12 September 2009 09:13 AM, Tom Horsley wrote:
>
>> Then there is the "synaptic" tool, which makes all fedora gui update
>> tools look like something scraped off the bottom of a bridge :-(.
>> Since doing updates is a common operation visible to all users
>> across all distros, I've always suspected that synaptic was
>> the primary reason ubuntu was somewhat more popular.
>>
> Synaptic is definitely the best gui package manager I have used. Its so
> easy to do everything, even distro upgrades are a few clicks away!
>
That has nothing to do with the packaging format however. Synaptic is
available in Fedora as well btw.
That's true, but of course it doesn't do upgrades as cleanly as on
Debian-based systems.
rh
2:54 p.m.
New subject: Guess who's right behind Ubuntu at Distrowatch
On 09/12/2009 10:46 PM, Suvayu Ali wrote:
On Saturday 12 September 2009 09:13 AM, Tom Horsley wrote:
> Then there is the "synaptic" tool, which makes all fedora gui update
> tools look like something scraped off the bottom of a bridge :-(.
> Since doing updates is a common operation visible to all users
> across all distros, I've always suspected that synaptic was
> the primary reason ubuntu was somewhat more popular.
Synaptic is definitely the best gui package manager I have used. Its so
easy to do everything, even distro upgrades are a few clicks away!
That has nothing to do with the packaging format however. Synaptic is
available in Fedora as well btw.
Rahul
12:16 p.m.
New subject: Guess who's right behind Ubuntu at Distrowatch
On Saturday 12 September 2009 09:13 AM, Tom Horsley wrote:
Then there is the "synaptic" tool, which makes all fedora
gui update
tools look like something scraped off the bottom of a bridge :-(.
Since doing updates is a common operation visible to all users
across all distros, I've always suspected that synaptic was
the primary reason ubuntu was somewhat more popular.
Synaptic is definitely the best gui package manager I have used. Its so
easy to do everything, even distro upgrades are a few clicks away!
--
Suvayu
Open source is the future. It sets us free.
11:22 a.m.
New subject: Guess who's right behind Ubuntu at Distrowatch
Tom Horsley wrote:
>> ... And they use deb-packages - there's no yum.
They guys who have to actually package up our software at work
consider that an advantage. From the practical complications
involved in packaging, they say deb packages are infinitely easier
to understand and generate than rpms.
That's simply opinion, just as I feel that packaging rpms is
infinitely easier than packaging debs. I've done a bit of both and I
would take a single spec file anyday over the much higher number of
files involved in created anything more than a dirt-simple deb
package. :)
--
Todd OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a
warning to others.
-- Demotivators (www.despair.com)
11:13 a.m.
New subject: Guess who's right behind Ubuntu at Distrowatch
> ... And they use
> deb-packages - there's no yum.
They guys who have to actually package up our software at work
consider that an advantage. From the practical complications
involved in packaging, they say deb packages are infinitely
easier to understand and generate than rpms.
Fedora on the other hand encourages the use of potentially powerful
admin tools. We use polkit instead to keep track of the permissions.
If only fedora would tell polkit that the answer to any question like
"Can root do this?" is yes :-). (Someone posted the config file
gimmick to do that and my life got much simpler, but I have
no idea why it isn't the default).
There are plenty of other confusing sysdamin differences. For
instance, when installing NIS, you have to manually add the
magic +::::: entry to /etc/passwd. There are basically no
runlevels, everything is runlevel 2, and you disable gdm by
disabling the gdm /etc/init.d script. No chkconfig tool
(some other toll who's name I forget instead). No ifcfg-eth0
scripts, just one big "interfaces" file with all interfaces
defined in the same file, etc.
Then there is the "synaptic" tool, which makes all fedora gui update
tools look like something scraped off the bottom of a bridge :-(.
Since doing updates is a common operation visible to all users
across all distros, I've always suspected that synaptic was
the primary reason ubuntu was somewhat more popular.
10:56 a.m.
New subject: Guess who's right behind Ubuntu at Distrowatch
2009/9/11 Hiisi <very-cool(a)rambler.ru>:
I wouldn't be so sure. They're about half of year back. And
they use
deb-packages - there's no yum. Recently I installed Ubuntu 9.04
(Jaunty) on my girlfriend' laptop. I never entered root pass during
installation process. Instead I created user for her and sudo entry
was created automatically.
--
Hiisi.
Thats a policy they have. They opt for the notion that users are
stupid enough not to be trusted with a root password. All the admin
tools use sudo, gksu or gksudo. The only way to drop to root is use
runlevel 1 or activate the root account using `sudo passwd'.
Fedora on the other hand encourages the use of potentially powerful
admin tools. We use polkit instead to keep track of the permissions.
It is a contrasting philosophy which makes me love Fedora over Ubuntu.
As far as I understand the feeling is the same for most of us on this
list.
In conclusion, Ubuntu is different enough for us to love Fedora over it.
--
Suvayu
Open source is the future. It sets us free.
5350
days inactive
5351
days old
11 comments
6 participants
participants (6)
-
Hiisi -
Rahul Sundaram -
Richard Heck -
Suvayu Ali -
Todd Zullinger -
Tom Horsley