2:34 a.m.
I am connected to a Picostation as repeater: sometimes laptop is
disconnected and I see a question mark on the top line wireless icon,
and it connects again only if I switch of and then on the wirelss...
in F20 it never happened.Smarthphone is always connected
Any idea???
--
Antonio M
Skype: amontag52
Linux Fedora F21 (Twenty one)
on Fujitsu Lifebook A512
http://lugsaronno.altervista.org
http://www.campingmonterosa.com
4:20 a.m.
On Tue, 2014-12-30 at 17:32 +0100, antonio wrote:
as network is a an extension of an office network, I do not want
anybody even see that network is extended....
That doesn't work, it doesn't do what you think it does.
As I'd already pointed out, removing the SSID doesn't hide the network.
It's still listed, for anybody who lists the surrounding networks, it's
just un-named.
For more admin fun and games, try connecting to the right network when
you're surrounded by several neighbours all running un-named access
points. Then you might realise that the only thing you can do to make
your own networking easier, is to have a SSID showing with a name of
your own choosing.
--
tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp
Linux 3.17.7-200.fc20.i686 #1 SMP Wed Dec 17 04:08:31 UTC 2014 i686
All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point trying
to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the public lists.
George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not
a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments.
11:23 a.m.
On 12/28/2014 02:34 AM, antonio montagnani wrote:
I am connected to a Picostation as repeater: sometimes laptop is
disconnected and I see a question mark on the top line wireless icon,
and it connects again only if I switch of and then on the wirelss...
in F20 it never happened.Smarthphone is always connected
Any idea???
I get the question mark when connected to WiFi. It seems to have
happened a couple of updates ago.
--
-- Steve
10:36 a.m.
On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 05:32:03PM +0100, antonio wrote:
as network is a an extension of an office network, I do not want
anybody even see that network is extended....
With all due respect, it doesn't matter. The Bad Guys(Tm) *will* see it,
SSID or not. WiFi scanning tools return all channels, with or without a
SSID. So why obfuscate your network to no advantage? It just gets in the
way of legitimate administration and users.
Cheers,
--
Dave Ihnat
dihnat(a)dminet.com
10:32 a.m.
Tim ha scrito il 30/12/2014 alle 15:47:
Allegedly, on or about 30 December 2014, bruce sent:
> whether or not hiding does any good or not isn't the issue with what
> antonio was/is presenting..
>
> he;s simply saying/asking if there should be a bug filed in this case,
> or if seeing a "?" is the correct behaviour in the case of there being
> hidden SSIDs?
But do you want to go bug hunting regarding a bad way of using a
network, or would you rather just have a working network?
It doesn't help in the way people think it does, and it does cause you
problems hiding it. That was yet another one...
Heck, it's even more tempting when you hide the SSID, to some computer
users. On one of my computers with a horrible Windows OS, access points
with hidden SSIDs aren't omitted from the list of available networks,
they're actually listed as a hidden network (or similar words that I
can't quite remember right now), to all users on the computer, not just
to something that script kiddies might be playing with.
Seriously, turn on the SSID, make life easier for yourself, whether
you're just an end user, or a network administrator having to deal with
all the support issues for your users.
It's like a "don't touch, wet paint," sign.
as network is a an extension of an office network, I do not want anybody
even see that network is extended....
--
Antonio M
Skype: amontag52
Linux Fedora F21 (Twenty one)
on Fujitsu Lifebook A512
http://lugsaronno.altervista.org
http://www.campingmonterosa.com
9:36 a.m.
New subject: Hiding SSIDs - Re: wireless is strange
On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 10:13:18AM -0500, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
Eventhough I wrote the paper on the Myth of hiding SSIDs in '03
and
provided the method for exposing hidden SSIDs, many wireless
professionals still push this as a valuable tool to protect your
networks.
You can't kill some memes. And people want a simple answer to complex
problems.
Many automotive companies are pushing for hidden SSIDs in cars to
avoid distracting the driver with connect messages. Hello? What is
the infotainment interface even doing active scans while the vehicle
is moving?
There's a simple solution. Make the display such that the driver can't
see it when the vehicle is in motion. I don't care if it's as crude as
a physical screen that deploys to block the driver's view, or as
expensive as two displays--one for the passenger-side, one visible from
the driver's seat only when the vehicle is in park; or as elegant as a
software-driven restricted view for the driver when not in park (e.g.,
maybe a polarized screen and software modification to the display).
The simple answer is stop the driver from accessing/seeing the display.
The method shouldn't be driven by the usual automotive "save a penny"
mindset.
The SSID is there to share the air. As I mentioned in an earlier
post, there are only a limited number of USABLE channels, so being
able to have some level of coordination can only be done with
visible SSIDs.
I don't know of any WiFi tool that doesn't show all channels, whether
with or without SSID.
that said, a bug is a bug and should be squashed. Unless it is a
feature...
The desision on what to represent a SSID-less channel should be documented.
I don't have a problem with showing "?" if you don't know the SSID;
just
document that's what you're doing.
Cheers,
--
Dave Ihnat
dihnat(a)dminet.com
9:13 a.m.
New subject: Hiding SSIDs - Re: wireless is strange
On 12/30/2014 06:54 AM, Tim wrote:
On Mon, 2014-12-29 at 18:13 +0100, antonio wrote:
> if this behaviour is connected to hidden SSID
You're only hurting yourself by hiding it. Seriously, hiding it doesn't
do you *any* good.
Eventhough I wrote the paper on the Myth of hiding SSIDs in '03 and
provided the method for exposing hidden SSIDs, many wireless
professionals still push this as a valuable tool to protect your networks.
Many automotive companies are pushing for hidden SSIDs in cars to avoid
distracting the driver with connect messages. Hello? What is the
infotainment interface even doing active scans while the vehicle is
moving? Even in gear at the lights? i voted against this in the
auto-WiFi-Alliance profile, but they had more votes...
The SSID is there to share the air. As I mentioned in an earlier post,
there are only a limited number of USABLE channels, so being able to
have some level of coordination can only be done with visible SSIDs.
that said, a bug is a bug and should be squashed. Unless it is a feature...
8:48 a.m.
bruce ha scrito il 30/12/2014 alle 13:57:
whether or not hiding does any good or not isn't the issue with
what
antonio was/is presenting..
he;s simply saying/asking if there should be a bug filed in this case,
or if seeing a "?" is the correct behaviour in the case of there being
hidden SSIDs?
On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 6:54 AM, Tim <ignored_mailbox(a)yahoo.com.au> wrote:
> On Mon, 2014-12-29 at 18:13 +0100, antonio wrote:
>> if this behaviour is connected to hidden SSID
>
> You're only hurting yourself by hiding it. Seriously, hiding it doesn't
> do you *any* good.
>
>
>
> --
> tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp
>
> Linux 3.17.7-200.fc20.i686 #1 SMP Wed Dec 17 04:08:31 UTC 2014 i686
>
> All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point trying
> to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the public lists.
>
> George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not
> a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments.
>
> --
> users mailing list
> users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
> Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
waiting for confirmation from developers I filed :
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1177661
--
Antonio M
Skype: amontag52
Linux Fedora F21 (Twenty one)
on Fujitsu Lifebook A512
http://lugsaronno.altervista.org
http://www.campingmonterosa.com
8:47 a.m.
Allegedly, on or about 30 December 2014, bruce sent:
whether or not hiding does any good or not isn't the issue with
what
antonio was/is presenting..
he;s simply saying/asking if there should be a bug filed in this case,
or if seeing a "?" is the correct behaviour in the case of there being
hidden SSIDs?
But do you want to go bug hunting regarding a bad way of using a
network, or would you rather just have a working network?
It doesn't help in the way people think it does, and it does cause you
problems hiding it. That was yet another one...
Heck, it's even more tempting when you hide the SSID, to some computer
users. On one of my computers with a horrible Windows OS, access points
with hidden SSIDs aren't omitted from the list of available networks,
they're actually listed as a hidden network (or similar words that I
can't quite remember right now), to all users on the computer, not just
to something that script kiddies might be playing with.
Seriously, turn on the SSID, make life easier for yourself, whether
you're just an end user, or a network administrator having to deal with
all the support issues for your users.
It's like a "don't touch, wet paint," sign.
--
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp
Linux 3.9.10-100.fc17.x86_64 #1 SMP Sun Jul 14 01:31:27 UTC 2013 x86_64
All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point
trying to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the
public lists.
George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not
a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments.
ZNQR LBH YBBX
6:57 a.m.
whether or not hiding does any good or not isn't the issue with what
antonio was/is presenting..
he;s simply saying/asking if there should be a bug filed in this case,
or if seeing a "?" is the correct behaviour in the case of there being
hidden SSIDs?
On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 6:54 AM, Tim <ignored_mailbox(a)yahoo.com.au> wrote:
On Mon, 2014-12-29 at 18:13 +0100, antonio wrote:
> if this behaviour is connected to hidden SSID
You're only hurting yourself by hiding it. Seriously, hiding it doesn't
do you *any* good.
--
tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp
Linux 3.17.7-200.fc20.i686 #1 SMP Wed Dec 17 04:08:31 UTC 2014 i686
All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point trying
to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the public lists.
George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not
a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments.
--
users mailing list
users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
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Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
5:54 a.m.
On Mon, 2014-12-29 at 18:13 +0100, antonio wrote:
if this behaviour is connected to hidden SSID
You're only hurting yourself by hiding it. Seriously, hiding it doesn't
do you *any* good.
--
tim@localhost ~]$ uname -rsvp
Linux 3.17.7-200.fc20.i686 #1 SMP Wed Dec 17 04:08:31 UTC 2014 i686
All mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted, there is no point trying
to privately email me, I will only read messages posted to the public lists.
George Orwell's '1984' was supposed to be a warning against tyranny, not
a set of instructions for supposedly democratic governments.
1:14 p.m.
New subject: Hiding SSIDs - Re: wireless is strange
Robert !!
Thanks you...
All my point was.. >> was, what's the app "supposed" to be doing, and
is it correctly doing it! I really don't care what the answer is, and
I've got no dog in the fight. Just that whatever the "?" was/is
supposed to represent is documented, or is a bug!!
The issue of whether someone should/should not hide their ssid is
secondary to if the software is working/documented for the user..
as an aside.. I can easily see an app throwing a frowny face if it
detects a channel with no ssid! - but doc what the frowny face means!
On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 10:13 AM, Robert Moskowitz <rgm(a)htt-consult.com> wrote:
On 12/30/2014 06:54 AM, Tim wrote:
>
> On Mon, 2014-12-29 at 18:13 +0100, antonio wrote:
>>
>> if this behaviour is connected to hidden SSID
>
> You're only hurting yourself by hiding it. Seriously, hiding it doesn't
> do you *any* good.
Eventhough I wrote the paper on the Myth of hiding SSIDs in '03 and provided
the method for exposing hidden SSIDs, many wireless professionals still push
this as a valuable tool to protect your networks.
Many automotive companies are pushing for hidden SSIDs in cars to avoid
distracting the driver with connect messages. Hello? What is the
infotainment interface even doing active scans while the vehicle is moving?
Even in gear at the lights? i voted against this in the auto-WiFi-Alliance
profile, but they had more votes...
The SSID is there to share the air. As I mentioned in an earlier post,
there are only a limited number of USABLE channels, so being able to have
some level of coordination can only be done with visible SSIDs.
that said, a bug is a bug and should be squashed. Unless it is a feature...
--
users mailing list
users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
5:18 a.m.
Dave Ihnat <dihnat(a)dminet.com> writes:
On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 05:32:03PM +0100, antonio wrote:
> as network is a an extension of an office network, I do not want
> anybody even see that network is extended....
With all due respect, it doesn't matter. The Bad Guys(Tm) *will* see it,
SSID or not. WiFi scanning tools return all channels, with or without a
SSID. So why obfuscate your network to no advantage? It just gets in the
way of legitimate administration and users.
And even more importantly, laptops and phones need to search for hidden
SSID's, so they are constantly broadcasting the fact that they are
looking for a certain SSID, even when they aren't anywhere near that
SSID. People with hidden SSID's are effectively letting people track
them wherever they go. ;-)
-wolfgang
11:13 a.m.
antonio montagnani ha scrito il 28/12/2014 alle 09:34:
I am connected to a Picostation as repeater: sometimes laptop is
disconnected and I see a question mark on the top line wireless icon,
and it connects again only if I switch of and then on the wirelss...
in F20 it never happened.Smarthphone is always connected
Any idea???
can anybody check if this behaviour is connected to hidden SSID's??? as
I Unhided SSID, everything worked great.Shall I file a bug??
--
Antonio M
Skype: amontag52
Linux Fedora F21 (Twenty one)
on Fujitsu Lifebook A512
http://lugsaronno.altervista.org
http://www.campingmonterosa.com
3425
days inactive
3428
days old
13 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
Antonio M -
antonio montagnani -
bruce -
Dave Ihnat -
Robert Moskowitz -
SternData -
Tim -
Wolfgang S. Rupprecht