On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 12:15:42 -0600 fedora(a)cwm030.com wrote: I use fetchmail to download mail from every other mail server onto my home machine, where fetchmail then injects the mail into the dovecot imap server. With dovecot sieve support, I filter the mail into appropriate IMAP folders (or simply discard it). Then I can use any email client to talk to my local IMAP server without having to convert or transfer mail anywhere. The client I like best is claws-mail which allows be to disable html mail so I can example any plain text before deciding to actually read it (by opening in chrome).

On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 at 08:01, Tim via users <users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote: IMAP can use folders (aka multiple mailboxes) on the server. I haven't used POP since IMAP2bis arrived in pine -- maybe modern POP3 supports folders. My pre-retirement work often involved sorting out issues on random workstations (back when people had actual offices scattered over a couple floors/buildings) so it was important to have quick access to email via IMAP from whatever workstation was having issues. -- George N. White III

On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 22:31:10 +1030 Tim via users <users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote: That is true, you could use any mail client that you want to. You must of never had to use the Evolution mail group before.. They're quite rude over there. Basically, they give you the nice " GO RTFM" for replies, even though you tried Googling your issue. " Go to HELP > AND XXXX" and read the help guide." I use to really love Evolution until that started happening. How do you do that? When I tried IMAP, on this sat dish connection, here in Claws, Claws slowly loaded the whole inbox and displayed everything in the inbox. And every time I switched folders it took it a min to display everything in that folder. Chris

Tim: Chris: True, I've never used their forum. Manual, what manual? Ha! I just pressed F1 for help, it opened my web browser to: https://help.gnome.org/users/evolution/3.28 Giving me: Not Found The requested URL /users/evolution/3.28 was not found on this server. But, in the past, I've seen Gnome manuals for such programs where all they do is give a one-liner on each control. This button downloads your mail, this button prints it. I can figure that out for myself. Narrating the icons and menu is useless. I need a manual that explains how your program does something, so I can figure out how to get it to do what it's supposed to, when it's not. Tell me how the different options for a function work, what they do. Though that problem is endemic with most software. But when I say "least worst" I mean various things like, the following, just to mention a few of the main ones: The program has to run without being a major CPU hog. I want to use a three-pane view (list of folders, list of mail in the current folder, and view the message). The layout needs to be ergonomic. I have to be able to read the contents in each pane without it being a pain, no reading a magazine through a keyhole effects. When I type a reply, I don't want mangled quoted paragraphs because your program is utterly crap at either not re-wrapping text, or does a job like a three-year old has typed it, with line breaks where they don't belong, mixtures of different length lines, quote indicators splattered through the paragraph and an untidy mess left of it. I need to be able to unmangle the quoted text without it being a major fight. Even more important, when I type MY text it has to be unmangled. It should be as good as a word processor at handling line breaks, especially if I edit a paragraph and change something in the middle. I've been doing email for around 30, and still morons write email programs that just can't get the basics right. I want proper flags on my mail. Only, ONLY, bloody ONLY, mark a mail as read if *I* have actually read it. Don't mark old mail as read to hide it from me. I need some damn way to tell which mails I've read and not read. If I'm ignoring a thread, don't mark it read, either do nothing or mark it ignored. If it's that bad I'll delete it. If I want to hide older mail to quickly see the latest, I'll use a filter that only shows me the last few days messages in the list. But when you mark an email as read, when I haven't, it makes it damn hard to find a message someone sent me a while ago but I haven't actually read. Considering how email is often used for business, in software that's supposed to be office software, it's vital to not bugger that up. It's not bloody rocket science! But there is some truly dire programs out there, including the main ones that most people use. I'm reminded of that scene in the Tomorrow Never Dies Bond film where the evil henchmen are having a video conference and one of them tells his boss: as requested the software is full of bugs, so they'll be updating for years. I'm sure that line was thrown in by a writer who was sick of Microsoft's crap. It's an option (depending on how good your software is client &/or server). When you open a mail folder, you can * Only fetch very brief headers only (e.g. from, to, subject, date), and it'll only fetch the actual message when you select it from your list. * Or, only prefetch more extensive headers (more headers that are useful for filtering) * prefetch the entire message * It's even optional about fetching attachments (brilliant for wading through mail where people have sent you 50 meg attachments). It is designed for being able to minimise network traffic and be more efficient at it. Though, your program also has to be written intelligently (I've already roasted that concept). And the very nature of email (lots of individual messages) does mean that some network environments are more painful than others. For laggy ones, it can be simplest to download everything as a lump, then deal with it a minute later all locally cached. For me, I fetch my mail into my LAN mail server. That's quick. But even for people with high speed broadband optical fibre connections direct to their ISP, they can have a painful experience doing mail over the network, all down to how badly their ISP runs their network and mail server. On my LAN, using IMAP means I can manage my mail on any computer on the LAN, easily. If I was using POP3, that'd be a complete nightmare. -- uname -rsvp Linux 3.10.0-1160.53.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Fri Jan 14 13:59:45 UTC 2022 x86_64 Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list.

On Sun, 2022-02-13 at 22:03 -0500, John Mellor wrote: Every now and then someone "improves" their software so that you're forced to go through their crappy advertising-infested interface. I only keep using a Yahoo mail, because of spam. At that stage, they were the cause of most of it, so I figured their servers could receive most of it. Serve the buggers right. I went through a stage where they changed something and it took quite a bit of experimenting with what ports to use, which security protocol to use, how to login (username or full address), before I could receive send mail again. Around the same time it became important to send through the services own SMTP servers so they verified your mail for you as being real, so other servers would accept it. My hosted service recently (again) decided to tell us to stop logging into their mail services using its real address, and use our own domain names that it virtually serves. The trouble is, the security certificates are all in its name, so fetchmail complains of a security fault. I can override and download anyway, from *apparently* the wrong server, or not get my mail. That's *not* security, that's insecurity. I've tried Thunderbird over the years, but (like a web browser) it's overly convoluted for what it actually needs to do. Its mail editor has always been painful, I don't think much of its viewer either. Years ago, MANY years ago, I tried Opera on Windows 98SE. They decided to use a database for mail storage. That may have worked well for ordinary users who might have 100 emails (if they keep them), but it couldn't cope with the workload of people who participate in mailing lists (like this Fedora one). Since I use fetchmail to a local Dovecot server, mail is stored how I like it (maildir), and it doesn't matter what silliness the mail client uses, the mail client only caches things as it reads it, rather than store it. In my prior installation Dovecot used mailbox (one huge file per mail folder), that was diabolically slow once one got moderately big. When I replaced the server I put the effort into figuring out how to make it use maildir, that was a massive speed improvement. Things work in a flash, now. -- uname -rsvp Linux 3.10.0-1160.53.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Fri Jan 14 13:59:45 UTC 2022 x86_64 Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list.

On Mon, 2022-02-14 at 11:33 +1030, Tim via users wrote: Recall that Evolution is available on multiple distros and that the Evo list is not restricted to Fedora. The Help docs are often in a separate package. For Fedora, it's "evolution-help". poc

On Tue, 2022-02-15 at 17:58 +1030, Tim via users wrote: I can't answer that, except to say that the current version of Evolution is 3.42 and you seem to be using 3.28. That's roughly 7 years out of date. In the interim the root website has changed: https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Evolution/ poc

Centos 7 is frozen to versions of packages from about 7 or 8 years ago. The whole point of centos is to support old versions of software for the long term. It’s not my choice for desktop os because the apps are so old and hard to get help with. Barry

On Tue, 2022-02-15 at 12:21 -0600, c. marlow wrote: No, it's a recompilation of Red Hat, RHEL. But, yes, it was a long-term install. Various distros had long-life versions as well as short-term ones. -- uname -rsvp Linux 3.10.0-1160.53.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Fri Jan 14 13:59:45 UTC 2022 x86_64 Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list.

On 2/15/22 12:12, Barry wrote: I ran CentOS on my notebook until Fedora 6; that is when I made the switch even with the semi-annual ver upgrade approach.  It was always behind, for good reasons on apps. Now I typically only do annual Fedora upgrades; when the ver I am using EOLs.  Thus I tend to be current and avoid, for the most part old stuff.  Though new stuff does not always work (can't figure out why VLC hard hangs my system with some videos). In all seriousness, there has to be a good hardware reason to run CentOS on a notebook.

On Wed, 2022-02-16 at 00:55 +1030, Tim via users wrote: It *is* that far out of date. You have the option of installing a Flatpak version (assuming this works on Centos) which would be up to date but may have other issues as it basically runs in a sandbox and has only limited communication with the rest of the desktop. poc

On Wed, 2022-02-16 at 19:18 +1030, Tim via users wrote: Evolution is a component of Gnome, so I'm assuming that your Gnome desktop on that Centos system will be similarly out of date. If not, there's something weird going on. AFAIK it is possible to install Evo with a different library root by building it yourself, but that's a non-trivial process. poc

On Mon, 2022-02-21 at 11:55 -0600, c. marlow wrote: Of the few folders mine does store locally, it's in maildir. I don't know if that's user-selectable, though. The preferences window even says it's maildir for the default "on this computer" folder, but that folder's not editable (there's only an enable/disable entire folder option for it). I suspect though, that internally it sticks with maildir for storing any mail it's fetched itself. All the local mail folders I see in ~/.local/share/evolution/mail/ are maildir. Maildir is a later improvement on MH (according to other authors), so I'll take their word on that and not debate it, but it's a similar scheme of individual files for each message, though without an index file. You can create non-network accounts where it'll read mail files that are already on the drive (something else will have to bring them onto the computer), and then you have a choice of local delivery (no clues in the preferences interface as to what it reads), MH format, maildir format, standard Unix mbox spool directory, and standard Unix mbox spool file. I seem to recall importing old mail spool files into Evolution, years ago, simply by dragging and dropping a spool file onto a mail folder inside Evolution's window, and it automatically handled parsing it. I'm fairly sure that was how I finally moved my old mailspool files from the old Dovecot mail server into the new Dovecot server using maildir. Every mail moving tool I'd looked at seemed to require a computing degree to understand how to drive it. For my mail it accesses through my IMAP server, it doesn't appear to be caching them anywhere that I can see (and I've not asked it to). Seeing how you mentioned satellite internet, that's one of the laggiest systems and you probably are best off pre-fetching all your mail as a batch, whatever protocol you use. Then you're just stepping through your local cache as you read them. -- uname -rsvp Linux 3.10.0-1160.53.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Fri Jan 14 13:59:45 UTC 2022 x86_64 Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list.

Tim: Patrick O'Callaghan: The "on this computer" folder(s) can be switched on or off, but can't be deleted or edited for format type. I'd already mentioned creating non-network ones (as far as Evolution is concerned), where something else has fetched the mail and locally stored them, for them you can configure how Evolution works with them. Indeed, you have to, if something else brought in mail as maildir, then you need Evolution to work in the same way. I'd noticed that for my other accounts I'd created they don't have any local folders. Accounts I'd created to use IMAP with my LAN mail server, IMAP with gmail, SMTP with Yahoo, etc. I don't have any of them set to locally cache, and I'm not going to try it to see what it does. But I'd suspect maildir would get used for any caching, based on the other local one that doesn't offer you configuration options, you don't get any questions about how to store these, either. Oddly, there's some orphaned folders in there untouched from when I experimented with Evolution a couple of years back, where there's a folder name of a hash@domain name with a folders.db SQL file in it. I've created and removed folders since their dates, so I'm certain they're old ones unrelated to current operation. I think they should have been deleted by Evolution at the time, but they've not been. There's only about 12kB in total, so I don't care all that much. -- uname -rsvp Linux 3.10.0-1160.53.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Fri Jan 14 13:59:45 UTC 2022 x86_64 Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list.

On Wed, 16 Feb 2022 19:18:35 +1030 Tim via users <users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote: If I understood this correctly, You don't run " sudo dnf update" but twice a year? :O I run my " sudo dnf update" every Sunday. Chris

On Sun, 2022-02-13 at 12:58 -0600, c. marlow wrote: I'm one of the moderators of the Evolution list. Pointing out that an issue is addressed in the Help is not rude, and anything not dealt with that way is typically answered by many of the very helpful contributors, one of whom is the principal maintainer of Evolution. poc

I too have used the in-house imap server approach, for many years. There are different ways to pull mail from the MSP's imap server to your own. I happen to currently do this, with heavy filtering and folder management, via an imap client that is always up. I leave (and sometimes copying back) certain types of messages that I might need when remote on the MSP's server. Depending on my connectivity type I sometimes make my in-house server externally accessible. Once the messages are on your own server it's easy to manage things as you wish. Other benefits of course include system backups and not being dependent on the vagaries of a mail client, and desktop machine (or worse, mobile device) for maintaining the message store.

Hello Chris, On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 12:15:42 -0600 fedora(a)cwm030.com wrote: I use Claws Mail on several systems (including a Fedora and a CentOS), with POP3 on my main machine (where I keep the whole history of my emails), and IMAP4 on secondary or mobile devices or for accounts where it's pertinent. Whenever to use POP or IMAP is very dependent on some factors or criteria that a quite subjective. I personally prefer not keeping personal stuff on remote servers, and I having a reference machine where POP3 is used if possible. Which means: using IMAP only for very specific uses. Moreover, using IMAP will make you dependent of remote resource and you must be online, the use of IMAP accounts generate much more network traffic, that's a problem to me. I also experienced very slow or unreliable IMAP servers (orange.fr, the worst one ever?) and when it's slow or not reliable, having to push everything online (drafts, sent and their copy to Sent emails, ..) is just a pain in the *ss. Regards, -- wwp https://useplaintext.email/

On 2022-02-13 2:09 p.m., c. marlow wrote: That's actually a good reason to use IMAP instead, as the normal behaviour is to download the headers and not the bodies.  You only download the bodies on mails that you read, so unless you don't get any spam or if you actually read every single message that you get, your bandwidth usage will normally appreciably be lower with IMAP. -- John Mellor

Hello John, On Sun, 13 Feb 2022 15:40:16 -0500 John Mellor <john.mellor(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: You make assumptions here that follow your use, and it's not at all mine - I do read (thus, download) - read or filter by body contents - nearly all emails I receive, and I receive a lot of spam that is also filtered on client-side. Of course, you were definitely right by explaining there are different kinds of email uses. The OP would have to evaluate his own uses and see if IMAP fits better them. Also, writing/sending at lot of emails, using drafts, will increase your network consumption, but that, also, depends on your own uses. A slow network user will be sensitive to that. Regards, -- wwp https://useplaintext.email/

I am also wondering about this: I have a web hosting package that offers email the works: Website, FTP, Email, etc I have my email set up to Forward via the Direct Admin panel to a Gmail address. You open the Direct Admin panel Then you click the " Fowarders" icon and I hit CREATE FORWARDER And then I set the forwards up like: email address: Fedora(a)CWM030.com Destination: EMAIL and then added the gmail address I want my mail forwarded to I just got a piece of spam mail that it looks like the forwarder caught it first before Spam Assassin caught it and it was forwarded to me and GMAIL caught it. I am wanting to know, would gmail start considering all mail from my domain as spam if it occasionally puts a piece of mail in the spam folder? Or is DirectAdmin keeping the headers like they are and just redirecting the email to me? Thanks, Chris

On Mon, 2022-02-14 at 08:23 -0600, c. marlow wrote: additional... Look at the messages going through your system, your mail client should have some sort of "view source" or "view all headers" option. You should be able to to see what headers are there. But generally, mail systems just add their own headers on top of the stack, only expect a spammer to start removing or forging ones. Directly above your message content (what you type) are the first lot of headers, where you've set FROM, TO, SUBJECT, and something has added the DATE (either your mail client, or the first server it goes through if your mail client didn't). Each server that your mail passes through adds a "received" header to the top of the email, so they start stacking upwards (the last server to handle the mail will have their headers on the top). You can think of this as traditional mail going through the postal service. You write the addresses on the envelope (and everyone takes it on faith that you wrote the correct "from" address). As it goes through the postal service they postmark it with their own stamp. Imagine if every postal office the letter passed through put their postmark stamp on top of the last one. They don't, but that's the sequence email goes through. As far as spam detection goes, any thing that puts high credence on the TO and FROM addresses is going to have a high failure rate (because nearly all your mail will be addressed to you, and spammers usually fake the from addresses, though mail with TO the same as FROM usually is spam), it really needs to examine the mail servers that it passes through more than anything else. The first one it went through ought to get the heaviest scrutiny, as it would be the originator of any mail and should be stopping spam right at its own border. But spammers may send through fake servers first, so subsequent servers it passed through do need to be assessed, too. Long before your own server forwarded the message to you, it's passed though other servers. Considering a large service like google assesses millions of emails, with thousands going through some servers that they'll database, the odd one or two through your own *ought* to be a teardrop in the ocean, comparatively speaking. But don't be complacent about that. As I'd already said, put addresses into your contacts that you want considered friendly. Google should consider such mail less likely to be spam that any other address. Though I'd be inclined not to do that with your own personal address, spammers often use your own address as the FROM address to try and get past your spam filters. Guessing how any service does it spam detection is guesswork, though some people do put effort into testing, and services keep changing their detection methods to keep pace. If I were spam detecting, there'd be a number of things I'd look at. Assume I'm a large email service. I'd get millions of emails, I look at their content, lots of identical messages are very probably spam, so I increase their spam score. If users report spam to me, I'll further increase the spam score for other identical messages. But if I receive them sent to fake honeypot addresses, I immediately set their spam score to 100% and presume all identical messages (content-wise) will be spam and I can delete them without care, or at least mark them as confirmed spam. I also look at where they came from (the services it passed through, not the TO & FROM addresses), and those services become highly suspect. Then we start marking mail from them as possibly spam. If I see masses of possible spam from them, more than non-spam, we start scoring their mail even worse. But if all I ever see from those services is spam, they get bumped up to extremely suspect. Then we start managing mail from them, rejecting it, blacklisting the service (so they have to fix themselves to get unblacklisted). That's the basic idea. For what it's worth, it's highly likely that when services give you user agreements that make you agree to them being able to look at message content, it's probably to allow their spam detection to assess your mail. Much more so than for other nefarious purposes. And if I were running a public email service, I could also be looking at user's accounts. If you reply to a mail, add its details to your contact list, or move the mail to another folder, I could presume it wasn't spam, as you've interacted and kept it. But if you delete it, or ignore it (i.e. leave it idle in your inbox), I might assess it as being spammy, even if you didn't flag it as junk. -- uname -rsvp Linux 3.10.0-1160.53.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Fri Jan 14 13:59:45 UTC 2022 x86_64 Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list.

On Fri, 2022-02-11 at 12:15 -0600, fedora(a)cwm030.com wrote: I stopped using POP around 10 years ago. The biggest pro is that you can keep your mail on a server and access it from multiple clients. That includes organizing it in folders. You can't realistically do this in POP. The only "con" is again that you're keeping your mail on a server. However even that isn't a limitation as you can easily download it for off-line access. Good IMAP clients will do this automatically if you want. Evolution. I also use Gmail, but have my Gmail accounts set up for IMAP access so I can see them in Evolution, or on the web client, or on my phone app. poc

On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 11:11:15 +1100 Cameron Simpson <cs(a)cskk.id.au&gt; wrote: I've tried ALPINE before and I found it hard to use. But I kinda liked it though. I've always wanted to know, where does your POP email get stored if you're using a email client via the terminal? Chris

On Mon Feb14'22 08:34:39AM, Cameron Simpson wrote: I am tempted to send your IPO soaring. What/how does your pop3 tool work? It seems to have only 4 lines of code, but I have no idea what it can do:-) For the record, I use fetchmail on multiple accounts and then procmail. Three cheers for local email! Ranjan

On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 15:00:20 +1100 Cameron Simpson <cs(a)cskk.id.au&gt; wrote: I am a Linux N00B. I would love to know how to keep a copy of emails locally. My Claws-Mail MH offline storage folders ( back when I was a POP user) currently stands at 720.3 Megs going all the way back to 2016! Chris

On Mon, 2022-02-14 at 08:34 +1100, Cameron Simpson wrote: AFAIK POP servers don't keep any per-message state, nor can you download messages selectively, nor indeed download only the headers as you can with IMAP. poc

On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 12:15:42PM -0600, fedora(a)cwm030.com wrote: Me! ... :) Why should I need IMAP? With `fetchmail', that I use, it seems I can even keep emails on the remote POP server - I usually just don't need that. Mutt. But I'd recommend clawsmail easily to anyone needing reliable email software. The reasons I have mutt is simply because I've had it for decades; except for an `outlook' account I got sendmail working (I'm still wondering how I did that); and I really like the looks of email in a decently coloured terminal. That clawsmail feature when setting up an email account - just one example - to find the server ports for an account by simply telling the program to find them - that's just wild .. There's one thing I miss in clawsmail, and that is permanent mail logs, i.e. logs that are saved somewhere to disk after closing the program. HTH Wolfgang

Thanks for the heads-up, Tim ... On Sat, Feb 12, 2022 at 10:21:47PM +1030, Tim via users wrote: `man fetchmail': ------------- -k | --keep (Keyword: keep) Keep retrieved messages on the remote mailserver. Normally, messages are deleted from the folder on the mailserver after they have been retrieved. Specifying the keep option causes retrieved messages to remain in your folder on the mailserver. This option does not work with ETRN or ODMR. If used with POP3, it is recommended to also specify the --uidl option or uidl keyword. ------------- So it seems, leaving messages on the server after reading is not a problem for fetchmail, be it POP3 or whatever usage. But yes: it might lead to problems ... Seems to be it. Again `man fetchmail': ---------- RETRIEVAL FAILURE MODES [ ... ] A potential POP3 problem might be servers that insert messages in the middle of mailboxes (some VMS implementations of mail are rumored to do this). The fetchmail code assumes that new messages are appended to the end of the mailbox; when this is not true it may treat some old messages as new and vice versa. Using UIDL whilst setting fastuidl 0 might fix this, otherwise, consider switching to IMAP. ---------- The important part: "when this is not true it may treat some old messages as new and vice versa." Which might mean (I'm guessing here), with another read on the POP3 server one might get already downloaded messages a 2nd time, while the new ones are not delivered, when running fetchmail again with the "keep" option ... might *hopefully* be fixed with the "--all" (something like "fetch everything") option while running fetchmail next time. `man fetchmail' might be worth a read when considering POP3 or IMAP .. I really like the document. I've used fetchmail most of the time in its default mode, namely deleting emails after retrieving them from the POP3 server. That's probably why I never, IIRC, became aware of any delivery problems with fetchmail while using it for ~15 or 20 yrs. But true: setting up newly again my email accounts I might be using IMAP instead of POP3. Thanks again, Tim! Wolfgang

On 2/11/22 13:15, fedora(a)cwm030.com wrote: for > the linux world. > > And It's getting harder and harder for me to hop around and try new > email clients out when they come out being a..........GET READY TO > CRINGE..... POP3 user. > > Last week I tried TDE ( Trinity Desktop ) on Debian. and decided to > give KMAIL a try... Big mistake... Importing my email into KMAIL > caused the emails names to be changed from numbers ( because I used > Claws before) to this weird string of letters and numbers. Therefore, > I could not import my email back to CLAWS since I gave up and > returned to Fedora and Gnome 3. > > I plan on staying with Fedora and Gnome 3. > > I thought about making the change to IMAP, but old habits die hard. I > find myself when I set up or try a new email client, I wind up > setting it up as POP3... And what are some pros and cons switching to IMAP? > > And what program do you use on Fedora for your email? Chris, as one of the contributors to IMAP, it still took me years to make the jump and I am glad I did. IMAP is just more functional than POP ever was with better security features; though Peter Resnick of Qualcomm would regal us with stories of maintaining Eudora for their CEO for years after there were other better choices, but he started on Eudora, and it was Qualcomm's product and he was going to keep using it...  Worked for me! I switched all those years ago from Eudora to Thunderbird, still POP.  There was a nice utility to convert Eudora mail folders to that used by Thunderbird.  In fact just last year an old friend was FINALLY getting of Eudora and asked if anyone knew how, so I dug the program out of my archives for him. Over all these years I have been using Thunderbird with all its warts.  But then really they all have warts. Oh and just updated my wife from Thunderbird on XP to Thunderbird on Win10, and she is complaining on how things are different...

On 2/14/22 11:01, c. marlow wrote: I only check my inbox for new mail.  I don't use any sieves or other tools to move incoming mail to specific folders, and I leave that to Thunderbird.  Actually I have no special folders on the server.  All filtered mail is moved to local folders. Only corruptions I have had for years has been in the index.  These are easily rebuilt when they go bad. And what it took to get some of her apps working!  But she was never really "connected".  She is behind 2 firewalls and only opens graphics and other attachments from known sources, and then Comodo filtered for checking content.  For her limited web access, she is behind a proxy firewall and really does very little online.  Just not her interest/style; I do almost all the family online shopping from my Fedora system.  Actually it was the need to get a newer Firefox to run embedded code from some banking sites that finally forced the hand for her to be willing to update! She is complaining about loosing the XP Search app.  It is her go-to tool to find whatever doc she needs to work on.  File Manager search is just strange.  "Why do I have to put asterisks in my search string.  I never had to do that before!"  And don't get me started on the Windows 10 default picture program(s).  I am going to have to search around and see if I can get something worth her time to use. I spent over an hour Sunday, getting a bunch of pics printed as she wanted them; got to be a better tool than what M$ supplies (I use gthumb for most of my pic printing). And what it took me to turn off all the M$ ad stuff all over the desktop.  "We own you..."  Of course turning off Firefox and google ad stuff, even with Adblock Plus was a pain. At least Office 2003 installed OK.  ;) But Noteworthy Composer setup just would not run.  It is a Win98 (or was that Win95?) app that is her main use app for her tutoring. Finally I worked out I could just copy the whole program folder for the XP system over to the Win10 system and it works.  Whew!  She never wanted to learn the new version's methods even when we moved to XP!  "Works well enough for me."

On 2/14/22 11:59, c. marlow wrote: ALL my filter rules use move, rarely copy. Yes.  I rather like having them local.  Works nicely when I would be flying and needed my mail.  I suppose I could have kept everything both on the server and local server copy, but then I only use the one notebook.  I rarely need to access mail from another system. Then I use Roundcube on my server and only have inbox and sent. So far has not happened and I try that it doesn't! And been using TB since back before Fedora, when I ran Centos on my notebook...

On Mon Feb14'22 01:10:27PM, c. marlow wrote: I had similar issues with IMAP (for 2-3 hours) when I tried to move to IMAP on a whim, and then, discretion being the better part of valor, moved right back to POP3. I am pretty certain that I was not using IMAP correctly, but decided to stick to POP3 because it served my needs. I leave e-mail on the server because I pull it from several places, and then I use rsync between the machines to keep all my local mails in sync. Serves my needs well and I am pretty happy about it. Best wishes, Ranjan

On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 13:00:15 -0500 Robert Moskowitz <rgm(a)htt-consult.com&gt; wrote: I just got done changing hosting companies from InterServer to HostGator, due to I.S. not sending me all of the emails from the lists that I am on. Like for instance.. I would see SO AND SO REPLIED TO XXXX: But I wouldn't get the original starter email from xxx. But anyways, I have the same set up like you right now.. Except I manually move my email off of each account. I am just afraid that using a MOVE command filter could cause some emails to come up missing or something like that. I will have to test that out and let you know. Chris

So I've set my email up as IMAP... I've got kind of a special set up. Call me frugal.. Lol I set up CPANEL to forward my email to a brand new gmail address that I made. Only because I kinda like the whole gmail " label " system now. HostGator offers Google Workspaces but I don't want to have to move 5 accounts to the new GW accounts and plus, just using HostGator's default email service, I get unlimited accounts vs having to pay for each one with GW. But then I started thinking this morning, WHY did I move to IMAP? I only check my email on my computer. I had the new account set up on my phone, but it got annoying to change accounts every time I open the gmail app from the free account that i've had since 2015 and don't use for anything to the new account for my domain. So I wound up removing the new account off of my phone. But then again.. My MH folders are getting ridiculously large... 845.8 MB and that is taking up A LOT of my 20 gig storage with NextCloud since I back up my MH folders nightly. Chris

On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 20:24:27 +1030 Tim via users <users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote: Well, to keep that from happening, I do, do nightly backups of my "CLAWS" folder in /home/chris just to be safe. So, I am guessing that you're saying that IMAP is better even though its very painfully slow on my connection? Chris

On Sun, 20 Feb 2022 20:24:27 +1030 Tim via users <users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote: I forgot to answer the other parts of your email.. OOPS! using Gmail's fetch setting under webmail settings? Yesss, I use to have that problem too! I've weeded out quite a few addresses over the last year, of accounts that I wasn't using anymore Chris

On Sun Feb20'22 08:24:27PM, Community Support for Fedora Users wrote: Excellent points. I have tried to address the following by having four email accounts. One provided by my employer, and what I call my "main account". Has to do with work-related things and I use fetchmail to fetch email. I have a second email address for mailing lists, that I never check or fetch from, but use to email to mailing lists (yes, this one). The third email address is for everybody else but family, and I use that for everything unrelated to work and family. I use fetchmail to fetch email, but do not bother with fetching spam. GMX.com has a helpful feature where they summarize all the headers of messages marked spam and email me everyday and I use that to unmark spam as needed. The last email address is for family and even messages to spam there are attempted to be fetched, but the email address is not given out, and stays within the family. Works for me. Ranjan

On Sun Feb20'22 04:30:14PM, c. marlow wrote: Right, sorry, I also have one of those other email addresses subscribed to the mailing list. So I essentially read email sent there. Ranjan > > Chris > _______________________________________________ > users mailing list -- users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure

On Sun, 2022-02-20 at 16:30 -0600, c. marlow wrote: Oops, didn't finish before I hit send. They could also do what I do: Subscribe to the list with two addresses. Have list mail sent to one address. Reply on the other. I did that because I want to avoid receiving spam and private messages from strangers on the list. Twenty-plus years of being on mailing lists has taught me that they're full of nutters, and a prime cause of masses of spam. And that automatic anti-spam systems always screw up. I'd do it all (send and receive) through an external service, but they tend to erroneously reject list mail as spam, so I receive the messages on a service that doesn't do that, it only accepts mail from the list, and does no other filtering. Since I don't want that service to get spammed (not having to manage that traffic in any way), I avoid exposing its address by posting to the list from another address that rejects all mail. If you use the usual public services, gmail, yahoo, etc., they all have uncontrollable and fallible anti-spam systems. It means you have to continually check your junk mail folder for false positives (so what's the damn point in doing any filtering?). Or, you don't bother checking, and you seriously piss someone off who's been trying to contact you, or simply miss out on solutions to problems and work, completely unaware that you're missing some mail. -- uname -rsvp Linux 5.11.22-100.fc32.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed May 19 18:58:25 UTC 2021 x86_64 Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list.

On Mon, 2022-02-21 at 07:05 -0600, c. marlow wrote: I don't know about other countries, but it's actually illegal to send harassing mail, there's nothing that excludes email from that law. Mind you, unless it was death threats you're unlikely to get anyone to take action on it. I just decided that I'd had enough of it, and wasn't going to deal with any more. People can contact me off-list, but either they mention it on-list and I reply (if I want to), or they do some sleuthing to figure out how to contact me. But it's not just harassing mail, some people are just plain nuts and you can do without having to deal with the weirder stuff they talk about when they're not in the public eye. Many years ago I responded back to a mailing list to a stupid private email, just so everyone could see what they were like. Tim: Over time there's been discussions about that, but consensus was that you can't. Attempting to do so my throttle it somewhat, but not completely disable it. While it makes sense to have it detect mail from false addresses and spam-bin them, it's overzealous and fallible at coming to that conclusion. There's a lot of genuine mail that doesn't meet their criteria for authenticated. List mail often confused it, and there's a plethora of service providers that don't authenticate their user's mail as being verified. When you send through a SMTP server that requires you to log in, and you're a customer that somehow they've previously verified your identity, they should be flagging the mail as it goes through in a way that other servers trust. Not all do. And, of course the spam houses will fake that trust, anyway, for their own posts. I had tried that kind of thing before, but other non-user- controllable anti-spam filters were in effect *before* user customisable ones. While that may have changed, I kind of doubt it. -- uname -rsvp Linux 3.10.0-1160.53.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Fri Jan 14 13:59:45 UTC 2022 x86_64 Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list.

Just ignore this ^^ That was just a ADD / ADHD moment... lol... ADD is a CURSE I SWEAR! lol Chris

On Wed, 2022-03-09 at 11:48 -0600, c. marlow wrote: I don't understand the purpose of that rule. New mail will always go into your inbox. Are you moving things from one inbox to another inbox? The logic of this escapes me, too. You want to move something away, then move it back again? For what it's worth, I don't see the value in doing filters upon filters, just do things once. It's quicker and simpler to debug. -- uname -rsvp Linux 3.10.0-1160.59.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed Feb 23 16:47:03 UTC 2022 x86_64 Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list.

On Fri, 2022-03-11 at 06:18 -0600, c. marlow wrote: That's what I do. It simplifies things rather than having two filter regimes fighting each other, though there may be some use cases where Evo's filtering would be a better fit. poc

On 3/9/22 09:48, c. marlow wrote: A pointer about email messages. That previous line with "--" is a standard marker that indicates that anything following it is part of the signature. Thunderbird greys out anything after and when replying will automatically remove it. I had to highlight the text before replying to get it here. That's why it's a bit mangled. Other clients likely do the same. Tim, you replied to this email previously. What did Evolution do with it when you tried to reply?

On Mon, 2022-03-21 at 14:55 -0700, Samuel Sieb wrote: Just confirming that you're referring to his email with message id: 4cd89656f28227f26e2609705bc02285164f4ce2.camel(a)cwm030.com (though that may not be the ID that his system creates). If I hit reply, the whole thing got quoted, including the list footer. I notice it's not a text email: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 I wonder if that fools evolution's replying? Replying to most textual messages (plain text or HTML) does trim off signatures as expected (ones not from this list). And so far, every base64 encoded message that I've found with a signature doesn't get it trimmed of. For what it's worth, I've found almost all messages from this list to be base64 encoded (even when I can see no good reason why). I managed to find one or two that aren't, and their signatures don't get stripped off, either. In the past, when it came to list mail, and trying out various different email clients, some only regard the last "dash dash space carriage-return" signature separater on the page as the one to strip off, others picked on the first one. The clients that promote top posting (and endless stacking of messages upon reply upon reply upon reply) often don't strip signatures at all, nor have signature separators in their own postings. So, I'm just used to either selecting only the portion of an email I want to reply to, or always hand-editing the message I reply to. It's been a very long time since I found Evolution has presented a blank page when I tried to reply to someone's badly formatted message. Replying to HTML used to be a pain, you'd try to split someone's stream-of-conciousness three-pages-as-one-paragraph posting into a real paragraph, and it'd delete the whole block of text. I'd have to copy and paste into a real plain text editor, like vim, to remove all the non-textual crapola, first. -- uname -rsvp Linux 3.10.0-1160.59.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Wed Feb 23 16:47:03 UTC 2022 x86_64 Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list.

On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 17:32:30 +0000 Patrick O'Callaghan <pocallaghan(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: No lie... Claws does go down the line and checks every folder when you set the account up. Chris

On Mon, 14 Feb 2022 20:32:58 +0100 wwp <subscript(a)free.fr&gt; wrote: It's not Claws thats slow, its IMAP. And is still currently considered in development and are advised to NOT use that format for right now in TB unless you know how to fix problems that come up while using the MH format in TB. Chris

On Tue, 15 Feb 2022 18:39:38 +1030 Tim via users <users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote: YESS!!! Me too... I have to click the " GET MAIL" button to download new email when * I AM * ready to read new messages.. Being ADHD, lol, that lets me pay attention to what I am reading at the moment instead of being in the middle of reading and then be like "OH LOOK NEW MESSAGES!" and then lose my place in what I was just reading and have to start all over :(. Chris

Hi, What is the best way to use autossh on Fedora 35? I have been using: autossh -M xxxx -N -L mailhub-etc hostname Until today, I used xxxx but from today, this is not working, and I am wondering if this is because the particular xxxx is no longer an unmonitored port? I had nightly updates to F35 yesterday. Just to be clear that ssh -L mailhub-etc hostname still works, so my thinking is that the issue is with the first part. So, I tried replacing xxxx with yyyyy and this particular yyyyy does work. But I was wondering if there was a better way than me discovering that it does not work once in a while and then trying my luck on what could be a good monitoring port. Many thanks and best wishes, Ranjan