9:50 a.m.
In looking over the reviews of Fedora 12, I was shocked that a big piece
of the possible Fedora 12 experience is missing: KDE.
I just discovered KDE. I don't know why I didn't use it sooner than
this. Now is it just my brand-new hardware, or the massive improvements
that Fedora has seen over the last several years, or is KDE the desktop
to beat?
Sure, I had a learning curve--like how to use the new Desktop Folder as
a widget, and how the wallpaper actually shows through it wherever you
need to place it. And how to use Desktop Activities, and the K App
Launcher. But these seem vastly superior to Gnome. Add to it that I've
been using a lot of KDE-specific apps, all of which had a problem
loading into the Gnome system tray--but with KDE, no problem.
I can't be the only KDE fan here. What does everybody else think?
Temlakos
12:03 p.m.
On 03/06/2010 12:48 PM, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
On Saturday 06 March 2010 03:50:04 pm Temlakos wrote:
> In looking over the reviews of Fedora 12, I was shocked that a big piece
> of the possible Fedora 12 experience is missing: KDE.
>
KDE is not missing in Fedora (and never has been). It's just that Gnome is the
default DE when you install Fedora and don't customize anything.
I didn't express that properly. Of course KDE has always been available
in every iteration of Fedora. What I don't see are any reviews that use
KDE with Fedora. All I see are reviews that use Fedora with Gnome. Don't
any reviewers ever try out KDE?
> Sure, I had a learning curve--like how to use the new Desktop Folder as
> a widget, and how the wallpaper actually shows through it wherever you
> need to place it. And how to use Desktop Activities, and the K App
> Launcher. But these seem vastly superior to Gnome.
>
Sure. Since version 4, KDE has been completely redesigned and rewritten. It is
now a much more powerful DE than KDE3 or Gnome. Just ask a Gnome user to
configure the screen so that he can see icons from two different directories
simultaneously on the desktop. ;-) Gnome just can't do that. And that is just
scratching the surface. :-)
So that explains it--KDE is better than ever, and certainly better than
I found it, way back in the Fedora Core 1 days. I just tried out KDE
instead of Gnome as an experiment. Better yet, I tried first with Gnome,
and then with KDE, and that's when I made my discovery.
But Gnome developers are going to engage soon into a similar rewrite
and
redesign of Gnome, with a goal of providing equivalent functionality. When KDE
devs did that and Fedora pushed the KDE 4.0, a lot of people got extremely
disappointed (lack of previous features, plenty of bugs, learning curve...),
and switched to Gnome. However, it is just a matter of time until this history
repeats for Gnome users, and many will switch back to KDE --- which has by
version 4.4 become a very stable, bug-free and feature-full DE, like no other
before. :-)
Which illustrates, by the way, one key reason why Windows is "WinDoze":
they lock you in to one desktop only. Whereas with Linux you have a
choice--in fact, as I understand it, lots of choices. And the developers
of those choices are always competing. Competition is wonderful--brings
out the best.
> I can't be the only KDE fan here. What does everybody else
think?
>
You are not the only one. There are plenty of us using and loving KDE.
But the bottomline is --- it's a matter of habit. Everyone likes what they are
most used to. My beginner's days with Linux started with RedHat 6.2 back in
spring of 2000, and my experience of Gnome in those days can be described only
as a "miserable piece of s*** full of bugs", while KDE was a sensible and
usable DE (for those times). I stuck with KDE, and since Fedora times I
occasionally take a look at Gnome whenever a new Fedora release comes out. I
have never got used to the idea of a "simplistic" Mac-like user experience
that Gnome is targeting, and I stuck with KDE even in 4.0 days, since I knew
it was not going to look so poor for too long. ;-)
So a lot of people will tell you "Gnome does this", "KDE doesn't do
that",
etc, but essentially it's all a matter of taste and developed habits.
Best, :-)
Marko
So Gnome is trying to emulate Mac, while KDE is trying to emulate--what?
Windows? I suspect so.
Actually, the thing that really made the deal with KDE was the Switch
User feature. I had never been able to switch users in Gnome as
seamlessly as I can do in KDE. And I've got four different user accounts
that I have to manage, and it's a whole lot simpler if I can log into
them all and switch among them as easily as switching desktops. (Of
course, getting new hardware with 3 GB of RAM and a dual-core Pentium
doesn't hurt.)
Temlakos
11:31 a.m.
On 03/06/2010 04:44 PM, Steve Searle wrote:
Around 04:38pm on Saturday, March 06, 2010 (UK time),
n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 scrawled:
> Is surprised you use a GUI at all, as for the clutter I can manage KDE
Someone choosing to not use KDE is not an attack on you. Choice is a
good thing.
Steve
Does not feel attacked,but surely a GUI could be considered to be
clutter and a resource hog. In any case, as I said, to each their
own,and in my case I can manage KDE without the clutter. Although the
default KDE config does cause clutter which will deter some folks. If I
need to boot to Bash command line I can, and sometimes that is most
definitely required. Apologies if anyone finds this in any way
threatening, that is most definitely not my intention.
JB
10:44 a.m.
Around 04:38pm on Saturday, March 06, 2010 (UK time), n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 scrawled:
Is surprised you use a GUI at all, as for the clutter I can manage
KDE
Someone choosing to not use KDE is not an attack on you. Choice is a
good thing.
Steve
--
(o< www.stevesearle.com
//\ Powered by Fedora
V_/_ No MS products were used in the creation of this message
16:41:27 up 5:23, 1 user, load average: 0.05, 0.04, 0.00
10:38 a.m.
On 03/06/2010 04:17 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:
On Sat, 06 Mar 2010 10:56:48 -0500
Temlakos wrote:
> Really? What does KDE stop you from doing, that Gnome doesn't?
Seeing actual data on your screen because it is obscured by all
the fanatical eye candy? :-).
Actually, I can't stand either KDE or GNOME, they both take
up too much space and attention with things they (God knows
why) think are important rather than things I think are
important. Thankfully, since this is X11 instead of Windows,
I can chose not to use either and instead go with a very
spartan desktop and fvwm configured exactly the way I want
it running from my own ~/.xsession file.
Is surprised you use a GUI at all, as for the clutter I can manage KDE
in an uncluttered way. Whatever, to each their own. I know it took me a
while to learn KDE 4, and for some bugs to be ironed out, but it suits
me now fine.
JB
10:27 a.m.
On 6 March 2010 16:24, n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 <n2xssvv.g02gfr12930(a)ntlworld.com
wrote:
> On 03/06/2010 03:52 PM, Fred Williams wrote:
> >
> > On 6 March 2010 15:50, Temlakos <temlakos(a)gmail.com
> > <mailto:temlakos@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > In looking over the reviews of Fedora 12, I was shocked that a big
> piece
> > of the possible Fedora 12 experience is missing: KDE.
> >
> > I just discovered KDE. I don't know why I didn't use it sooner than
> > this. Now is it just my brand-new hardware, or the massive
> improvements
> > that Fedora has seen over the last several years, or is KDE the
> desktop
> > to beat?
> >
> > Sure, I had a learning curve--like how to use the new Desktop Folder
> as
> > a widget, and how the wallpaper actually shows through it wherever
> you
> > need to place it. And how to use Desktop Activities, and the K App
> > Launcher. But these seem vastly superior to Gnome. Add to it that
> I've
> > been using a lot of KDE-specific apps, all of which had a problem
> > loading into the Gnome system tray--but with KDE, no problem.
> >
> > I can't be the only KDE fan here. What does everybody else think?
> >
> > Temlakos
> > --
> > users mailing list
> > users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org <mailto:users@lists.fedoraproject.org>
> > To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> > Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
> >
> >
> > There is a KDE Respin. Personally I find KDE too restrictive in
> > comparison to GNOME, which in turn I find more so than an Openbox
> > session. But if KDE is good for you, have a look at the respin.
> >
>
> I've been a KDE fan for a long time and I even use knetworkmanager for
> my network connection management. Once you get it setup, it really does
> simplify networking. As for KDE being restrictive, I just reverted to
> folder view for the desktop, and job done.
>
> JB
>
> --
> users mailing list
> users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>
I find even then it's still inconvenient. using the Wicd network manager
ensures compatibility with any WM I choose, and in all honesty, I find an
Openbox session with the tint2 panel far more useable than any KDE session
has ever been.
10:24 a.m.
On 03/06/2010 03:52 PM, Fred Williams wrote:
On 6 March 2010 15:50, Temlakos <temlakos(a)gmail.com
<mailto:temlakos@gmail.com>> wrote:
In looking over the reviews of Fedora 12, I was shocked that a big piece
of the possible Fedora 12 experience is missing: KDE.
I just discovered KDE. I don't know why I didn't use it sooner than
this. Now is it just my brand-new hardware, or the massive improvements
that Fedora has seen over the last several years, or is KDE the desktop
to beat?
Sure, I had a learning curve--like how to use the new Desktop Folder as
a widget, and how the wallpaper actually shows through it wherever you
need to place it. And how to use Desktop Activities, and the K App
Launcher. But these seem vastly superior to Gnome. Add to it that I've
been using a lot of KDE-specific apps, all of which had a problem
loading into the Gnome system tray--but with KDE, no problem.
I can't be the only KDE fan here. What does everybody else think?
Temlakos
--
users mailing list
users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org <mailto:users@lists.fedoraproject.org>
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
There is a KDE Respin. Personally I find KDE too restrictive in
comparison to GNOME, which in turn I find more so than an Openbox
session. But if KDE is good for you, have a look at the respin.
I've been a KDE fan for a long time and I even use knetworkmanager for
my network connection management. Once you get it setup, it really does
simplify networking. As for KDE being restrictive, I just reverted to
folder view for the desktop, and job done.
JB
10:17 a.m.
On Sat, 06 Mar 2010 10:56:48 -0500
Temlakos wrote:
Really? What does KDE stop you from doing, that Gnome doesn't?
Seeing actual data on your screen because it is obscured by all
the fanatical eye candy? :-).
Actually, I can't stand either KDE or GNOME, they both take
up too much space and attention with things they (God knows
why) think are important rather than things I think are
important. Thankfully, since this is X11 instead of Windows,
I can chose not to use either and instead go with a very
spartan desktop and fvwm configured exactly the way I want
it running from my own ~/.xsession file.
10:13 a.m.
On 6 March 2010 15:56, Temlakos <temlakos(a)gmail.com> wrote:
On 03/06/2010 10:52 AM, Fred Williams wrote:
On 6 March 2010 15:50, Temlakos <temlakos(a)gmail.com> wrote:
> In looking over the reviews of Fedora 12, I was shocked that a big piece
> of the possible Fedora 12 experience is missing: KDE.
>
> I just discovered KDE. I don't know why I didn't use it sooner than
> this. Now is it just my brand-new hardware, or the massive improvements
> that Fedora has seen over the last several years, or is KDE the desktop
> to beat?
>
> Sure, I had a learning curve--like how to use the new Desktop Folder as
> a widget, and how the wallpaper actually shows through it wherever you
> need to place it. And how to use Desktop Activities, and the K App
> Launcher. But these seem vastly superior to Gnome. Add to it that I've
> been using a lot of KDE-specific apps, all of which had a problem
> loading into the Gnome system tray--but with KDE, no problem.
>
> I can't be the only KDE fan here. What does everybody else think?
>
> Temlakos
> --
>
> users mailing list
> users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
> To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
>
There is a KDE Respin. Personally I find KDE too restrictive in comparison
to GNOME, which in turn I find more so than an Openbox session. But if KDE
is good for you, have a look at the respin.
Really? What does KDE stop you from doing, that Gnome doesn't?
Temlakos
--
users mailing list
users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
There are a number of GNOME panel applets that I've yet to find any way to
use
in KDE, the Kicker menu, even in classic mode, I find difficult to
navigate, even running Gnomenu with the K Menu theme isn't easy for me, I
find the KDE Panel heavy and clunky in comparison to the relatively lighter
and easier to use gnome-panel, the combination of KWin and Compiz is too
slow for me, and I find the same holds true for most of KDE. There are some
few KDE apps that are useful, but they work just the same in a Gnome
session.
For Gnome, I use one panel, with applets that, as said, I've yet to find KDE
versions of - or a means to use the Gnome ones in a KDE panel, and with only
a few customizations, I can do everything I want from it without making it
all that heavier.
Even Compiz enabled Gnome, even with Emerald, I've found that Gnome is far
ligher and more usable than KWin alone.
The Gnome menu is simpler, and easier to customize via alacarte than KDE.
This isn't meant to be a rant against KDE - there have been times when I've
found it more useful than Gnome. But, I think it could benefit from learning
from Gnome and even Xfce. My opinion. I can't deny KDE has it's good points,
I just don't find any of them myself.
9:56 a.m.
On 03/06/2010 10:52 AM, Fred Williams wrote:
On 6 March 2010 15:50, Temlakos <temlakos(a)gmail.com
<mailto:temlakos@gmail.com>> wrote:
In looking over the reviews of Fedora 12, I was shocked that a big
piece
of the possible Fedora 12 experience is missing: KDE.
I just discovered KDE. I don't know why I didn't use it sooner than
this. Now is it just my brand-new hardware, or the massive
improvements
that Fedora has seen over the last several years, or is KDE the
desktop
to beat?
Sure, I had a learning curve--like how to use the new Desktop
Folder as
a widget, and how the wallpaper actually shows through it wherever you
need to place it. And how to use Desktop Activities, and the K App
Launcher. But these seem vastly superior to Gnome. Add to it that I've
been using a lot of KDE-specific apps, all of which had a problem
loading into the Gnome system tray--but with KDE, no problem.
I can't be the only KDE fan here. What does everybody else think?
Temlakos
--
users mailing list
users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org <mailto:users@lists.fedoraproject.org>
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
There is a KDE Respin. Personally I find KDE too restrictive in
comparison to GNOME, which in turn I find more so than an Openbox
session. But if KDE is good for you, have a look at the respin.
Really? What does KDE stop you from doing, that Gnome doesn't?
Temlakos
9:52 a.m.
On 6 March 2010 15:50, Temlakos <temlakos(a)gmail.com> wrote:
In looking over the reviews of Fedora 12, I was shocked that a big
piece
of the possible Fedora 12 experience is missing: KDE.
I just discovered KDE. I don't know why I didn't use it sooner than
this. Now is it just my brand-new hardware, or the massive improvements
that Fedora has seen over the last several years, or is KDE the desktop
to beat?
Sure, I had a learning curve--like how to use the new Desktop Folder as
a widget, and how the wallpaper actually shows through it wherever you
need to place it. And how to use Desktop Activities, and the K App
Launcher. But these seem vastly superior to Gnome. Add to it that I've
been using a lot of KDE-specific apps, all of which had a problem
loading into the Gnome system tray--but with KDE, no problem.
I can't be the only KDE fan here. What does everybody else think?
Temlakos
--
users mailing list
users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines
There is a KDE Respin. Personally I find KDE too restrictive in comparison
to GNOME, which in turn I find more so than an Openbox session. But if KDE
is good for you, have a look at the respin.
8:14 p.m.
On Sat, 2010-03-06 at 10:50 -0500, Temlakos wrote:
In looking over the reviews of Fedora 12, I was shocked that a big
piece
of the possible Fedora 12 experience is missing: KDE.
It's not missing, it's just not the default. IMHO most reviewers out
there are so clueless that they don't seem to realize this. There is no
problem at all installing and using KDE with Fedora.
I just discovered KDE. I don't know why I didn't use it
sooner than
this. Now is it just my brand-new hardware, or the massive improvements
that Fedora has seen over the last several years, or is KDE the desktop
to beat?
Sure, I had a learning curve--like how to use the new Desktop Folder as
a widget, and how the wallpaper actually shows through it wherever you
need to place it. And how to use Desktop Activities, and the K App
Launcher. But these seem vastly superior to Gnome. Add to it that I've
been using a lot of KDE-specific apps, all of which had a problem
loading into the Gnome system tray--but with KDE, no problem.
I can't be the only KDE fan here. What does everybody else think?
I assume that's a rhetorical question rather than an attempt at an
opinion poll (or flamewar as we call it). If you like KDE (as I do) then
maybe you should subscribe to the Fedora KDE list
<kde(a)lists.fedoraproject.org>
poc
3:52 p.m.
My fave today is LXDE. In the past, it's been GNOME, XFCE, jwm/rox, fluxbox/rox,
blackbox/rox, and probably a few others I've long forgotten. Tomorrow, next week, or a
month from now it may well be something else. For what it's worth, it's never been
Enlightenment, and it's never been KDE. Not sure why, but it's really nice to have
a choice.
11:48 a.m.
On Saturday 06 March 2010 03:50:04 pm Temlakos wrote:
In looking over the reviews of Fedora 12, I was shocked that a big
piece
of the possible Fedora 12 experience is missing: KDE.
KDE is not missing in Fedora (and never has been). It's just that Gnome is the
default DE when you install Fedora and don't customize anything.
Sure, I had a learning curve--like how to use the new Desktop Folder
as
a widget, and how the wallpaper actually shows through it wherever you
need to place it. And how to use Desktop Activities, and the K App
Launcher. But these seem vastly superior to Gnome.
Sure. Since version 4, KDE has been completely redesigned and rewritten. It is
now a much more powerful DE than KDE3 or Gnome. Just ask a Gnome user to
configure the screen so that he can see icons from two different directories
simultaneously on the desktop. ;-) Gnome just can't do that. And that is just
scratching the surface. :-)
But Gnome developers are going to engage soon into a similar rewrite and
redesign of Gnome, with a goal of providing equivalent functionality. When KDE
devs did that and Fedora pushed the KDE 4.0, a lot of people got extremely
disappointed (lack of previous features, plenty of bugs, learning curve...),
and switched to Gnome. However, it is just a matter of time until this history
repeats for Gnome users, and many will switch back to KDE --- which has by
version 4.4 become a very stable, bug-free and feature-full DE, like no other
before. :-)
I can't be the only KDE fan here. What does everybody else think?
You are not the only one. There are plenty of us using and loving KDE.
But the bottomline is --- it's a matter of habit. Everyone likes what they are
most used to. My beginner's days with Linux started with RedHat 6.2 back in
spring of 2000, and my experience of Gnome in those days can be described only
as a "miserable piece of s*** full of bugs", while KDE was a sensible and
usable DE (for those times). I stuck with KDE, and since Fedora times I
occasionally take a look at Gnome whenever a new Fedora release comes out. I
have never got used to the idea of a "simplistic" Mac-like user experience
that Gnome is targeting, and I stuck with KDE even in 4.0 days, since I knew
it was not going to look so poor for too long. ;-)
So a lot of people will tell you "Gnome does this", "KDE doesn't do
that",
etc, but essentially it's all a matter of taste and developed habits.
Best, :-)
Marko
5181
days inactive
5182
days old
13 comments
8 participants
participants (8)
-
Fred Williams -
Marko Vojinovic -
n2xssvv.g02gfr12930 -
Patrick O'Callaghan -
Steve Searle -
Steven I Usdansky -
Temlakos -
Tom Horsley