6:30 a.m.
Stupid gmail doesn't reply to all recipients by default, so see below.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Vasile Gaburici <vgaburici(a)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: the ivory tower and the bazaar]
They say a picture is worth a thousand words.
[http://www.cs.umd.edu/~gaburici/linux-fonts.png]
On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 12:17 PM, Nicolas Mailhot
<nicolas.mailhot(a)laposte.net> wrote:
-------- Message transféré --------
De: Gustavo Ferreira
À: fedora-fonts-list-request
Sujet: the ivory tower and the bazaar
Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2008 20:38:59 -0300
On Jul 20, 2008, at 2:50 PM, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
> If the free/open font scene was striving Red Hat needn't have
> shelled a
> lot of money to a closed foundry like Ascender. Or the GNOME
> Foundation
> needn't have done the same with Bitstream for Vera. Experience
> shows it
> is very possible to extend a font with little coverage to more than
> decent one but it requires making a lot of noise around unfinished
> font
> cores with correct licensing to get someone interested. And you don't
> get there via traditionnal ivory tower isolated font designer
> workflow.
i have yet to see one good, original, well-made typeface developed in
the bazaar way. can you name one?
also, please don't be ungrateful to the "isolated ivory-tower
designer workflow", since it has produced the best foss-fonts out there.
i challenge the "free & open font crowd" to promote free/open fonts
on the basis of their typographic quality, without appealing to below-
the-belt demonization of "proprietary designers" and "proprietary
tools".
> Teams was released in 2000 by TopTeam. It took 8 years before someone
> picked it up and started updating it (Edrip). Have Debian (and other
> distributions, sadly Fedora not included) wasted their time by
> publishing Teams for 8 years in its poor state? If they hadn't I
> strongly suspect Edrip would not have happened.
>
> We're seeding our future. Those things take time, a lot of time.
> And the
> future will happen faster if people stop putting their heads in the
> sand, wasting time on proprietary fonts or font tools, and get to
> work.
> During this year's LGM a concerted effort created a new nicely
> licensed
> font from an old fossilizing one in a few days. Just a few years ago
> this would have been complete science fiction.
do you mean NotCourier Sans? i don't dislike the result, but let's be
honest about it -- chopping off serifs from an existing font is not
really type-design...
cheers,
- gustavo.
--
Nicolas Mailhot
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8:06 a.m.
On 14:30 Tue 22 Jul , Vasile Gaburici wrote:
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Vasile Gaburici <vgaburici(a)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: the ivory tower and the bazaar]
They say a picture is worth a thousand words.
[http://www.cs.umd.edu/~gaburici/linux-fonts.png]
I am sorry for my ignorance but what does the thousand-word-picture
actually said?
8:20 a.m.
Le Mar 22 juillet 2008 15:06, Michal Nowak a écrit :
On 14:30 Tue 22 Jul , Vasile Gaburici wrote:
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Vasile Gaburici <vgaburici(a)gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Fwd: the ivory tower and the bazaar]
>
> They say a picture is worth a thousand words.
> [http://www.cs.umd.edu/~gaburici/linux-fonts.png]
I am sorry for my ignorance but what does the thousand-word-picture
actually said?
I guess it said that if you were willing to shell a lot of $$$, you
could buy proprietary font sets that let you write the same basic
latin text in lots of slightly different ways, while being unable to
use any language that needed more that the 26 basic latin letters.
Of course not everyone has the same priorities.
--
Nicolas Mailhot
8:50 a.m.
Depends how international you want it! Adobe Pro fonts have many
glyphs, especially the newer fonts.
Comparing the number of glyphs:
Fedora fonts
~~~~~~~~~~~~
DejaVu Serif Book: 2885
DejaVu Sans Book: 5270
DejaVu Sans Mono Book: 3020
Liberation Serif Regular: 668
Liberation Sans Regular: 675
Liberation Mono Regular: 670
Linux Libertine Regular: 2388
Charis SIL Regular: 3289
Doulos SIL Regular: 3288
Gentium Regular: 1699
The URW fonts I got in OpenType have 300 or so glyphs. The type-1
Fedora ships, which have Cyrillic but
broken Romanian, have around 500.
Adobe Pro
~~~~~~~~~
Adobe Caslon Pro Regular: 801
Minion Pro Regular: 1668
Arno Pro Regular: 2846
Garamond Premier Pro Regular: 2735
Myriad Pro Regular: 846
Courier Std Medium: 374 [I don't have any Pro monospaced]
MS XP + EU Expansion Font Update
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Arial Regular: 1680
Times New Roman Regular: 1680
Verdana Regular: 913
Microsoft Sans Serif Regular: 2259
Courier New Regular: 1318 (this actullay lacks Romanian glyphs, it
wasn't updated)
MS Vista (actually these are from PPT Viewer 2k7, I don't have Vista)
~~~~~~~~
Cambria Bold: 979 [note: fontmatrix cannot read ttc files, like the
Cambria Regular + Math]
Constantia Regular: 994
Calibri Regular: 1121
Corbel Regular: 987
Candara Regular: 966
Consolas Regular: 709
MS Office 2k3
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Palatino Linotype Regular: 1328
Tahoma Regular: 2036
So, DejaVu Sans may win the number of glyphs contest, but I wouldn't
print stuff in DejaVu. Linux Libertine is much better in that respect.
Liberation is somewhere in between. What Linux really needs is a sans
version of Libertine! If I were Redhat management I'd pay Philipp Poll
or the SIL fokes instead of Ascender Corp! Btw, Charis SIL is okay for
some jobs, but it is a slab serif.
Btw, I have no need to write Chinese or Arabic, but there commercial
fonts for those too!
On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 4:20 PM, Nicolas Mailhot
<nicolas.mailhot(a)laposte.net> wrote:
Le Mar 22 juillet 2008 15:06, Michal Nowak a écrit :
>
> On 14:30 Tue 22 Jul , Vasile Gaburici wrote:
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Vasile Gaburici <vgaburici(a)gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Fwd: the ivory tower and the bazaar]
>>
>> They say a picture is worth a thousand words.
>> [http://www.cs.umd.edu/~gaburici/linux-fonts.png]
>
> I am sorry for my ignorance but what does the thousand-word-picture
> actually said?
I guess it said that if you were willing to shell a lot of $$$, you
could buy proprietary font sets that let you write the same basic
latin text in lots of slightly different ways, while being unable to
use any language that needed more that the 26 basic latin letters.
Of course not everyone has the same priorities.
--
Nicolas Mailhot
_______________________________________________
Fedora-fonts-list mailing list
Fedora-fonts-list(a)redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-fonts-list
9:05 a.m.
Le Mar 22 juillet 2008 15:50, Vasile Gaburici a écrit :
Depends how international you want it! Adobe Pro fonts have many
glyphs, especially the newer fonts. Comparing the number of glyphs:
And the point is, if you can buy the latest version of those fonts,
you don't need the workarounds for older fonts. And if you can't
afford to update to the latest proprietary version, bragging about its
new coverage is sort of futile.
--
Nicolas Mailhot
5782
days inactive
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4 comments
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participants (3)
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Vasile Gaburici