Looks like more memory is "well" supported: https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkPad-X-Series-Laptops/X140e-Review-and-U... So 16GB for ~$90.  Going to have to figure out the best good deal on 2x*GB memory. And look at 32GB options. But also look at the x240, x250, x260 to see which meet my needs and is affordable via ebay. On 1/11/22 12:30, Robert Moskowitz wrote:

If you have too many tabs open on some badly behaved websites firefox will eat all of your ram. weather.com is a good one, leave it setting for a few days open and that tab will use up the ram. It seems ok on my bigger machines (32gb) but is a real issue on the machine with 10gb. My 10gb ram machine was civilized by the earlyoom process that kills the process running the badly behaving tabs and using too much ram. On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 3:35 PM John Mellor <john.mellor(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > > What on earth are you doing in Firefox and Thunderbird to use that > swap? I have multiple 8GB machines running the same Fedora, Firefox and > Thunderbird, and virtually never get into swap at all. Two the these > machines are also Lenovo. This makes no sense, so there must be > something else hogging all that memory. Do a top and sort by RSS and see > what the real problem app is. > > -- > > John Mellor > > > On 2022-01-11 12:30 p.m., Robert Moskowitz wrote: > > The specs for my Lenovo x140e is 8GB, which I have and it seems to be > > not enough. > > > > $ free > > total used free shared buff/cache > > available > > Mem: 7380668 6930852 262676 1492 187140 > > 221144 > > Swap: 24157176 12044096 12113080 > > > > > > Firefox seems to be a bit part of the problem. I quit it and see: > > > > $ free > > total used free shared buff/cache > > available > > Mem: 7380668 5146100 1776840 1364 457728 > > 1948864 > > Swap: 24157176 5270956 18886220 > > > > I am running a VM at 2Gb and a couple of Thunderbird sessions. Closing > > these TB and waiting a while I drop down to > > > > $ free > > total used free shared buff/cache > > available > > Mem: 7380668 3751784 1148396 16228 2480488 > > 3272716 > > Swap: 24157176 2422956 21734220 > > > > > > but really the bottom line is I need more memory for the tasks at > > hand. Firefox has all these weird processes running eating up lots of > > memory and swapping like crazy. Probably bad for my SSD drive. > > > > So how to get to 16GB memory? > > > > What follows the x140e in the 12" format? I can't figure this out > > from basic Lenovo sales stuff. Probably going to have to find a > > Lenovo forum to get the info. > > > > But CompuRAM in UK says they can support up to 32GB on the x140e using > > "newer SO-DIMM chips". Crucial only sells 4GB for the x140e. > > > > Anyone have any knowledge on this? Other than booting and getting > > into settings, how do I figure out my bios version? And to see if > > Lenovo has a newer one that probably CompuRAM is counting on? > > > > Any US memory sources that will support more memory for the x140e? I > > really don't want to deal with overseas shipping and support. > > > > And back to the "newer" hardware question on 140 followon. > > > > thanks for any input. All this swapping is taking time when I really > > have to wait for the system to bring in what is needed and things to > > start working. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > users mailing list -- users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org > > Fedora Code of Conduct: > > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > > List Archives: > > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org > > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: > > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure > _______________________________________________ > users mailing list -- users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure

On 1/11/22 16:51, Roger Heflin wrote: Yep.  What I live with. Thunderbird also seems strange. what is 'earlyoom'?

On Wed, 2022-01-12 at 20:25 +1030, Tim via users wrote: You might consider the Tab Session Manager extension. It periodically (or on demand) saves your current tabs and windows and can restore them again on startup, but optionally not actually load each page until you decide to visit it. poc

On Wed, 2022-01-12 at 12:46 +0100, Andras Simon wrote: While I haven't looked closely, I can only say that the behaviour with the extension is different from that without it, e.g. it's possible to avoid loading even the favicon. The restore option is also more flexible and less buggy than the default behaviour, which is the real reason I installed it (rather than the performance aspect). poc

Patrick O'Callaghan Andras Simon: I might give the manager thing a try and see what it offers me. I've noticed the same thing, that when you fire-up Firefox, only the currently selected tab actually loads. Mine is set up to remember and restore the previous session. I do shut down the browser, and log off the computer. Perhaps other people are leaving their browser running 24/7? I'm not sure what Firefox does with pages on unselected tabs when the browser is always running. I suspect *anything* running on those tabs will keep on running, because I know I can switch away from tabs playing YouTube videos and the sound keeps going. I'm not at all surprised that something bad might romp through all the RAM. -- uname -rsvp Linux 3.10.0-1160.49.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Tue Nov 30 15:51:32 UTC 2021 x86_64 Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list.

On Thu, 2022-01-13 at 08:45 -0500, Robert Moskowitz wrote: In that scenario, I wouldn't expect Firefox to behave any differently than if it was 24/7 rather than 24/5. When you suspend and resume the PC, the software will be behaving as if it had always been running. You'd have to have quit and restarted Firefox, itself, to behave any differently. I've tried that kind of thing in the past, and something always goes haywire. e.g. I'll have a fight with the PC to get sound running, again. It'll just fail, and won't run. And I'll either have to relog, or reboot, to get things working again. There always seems to be a bug somewhere. Anything other than flat static HTML is a major candidate for chewing through your memory, CPU load, and network bandwidth. Pages that load adverts may continually load new ones, perhaps multimedia ones. Some pages may time-out on you. Pages that try to be flashy and follow all the latest design trends because authors and commerce have the Emperor's New Clothes attitude are always going to be the worst (sales, news, gossip, etc). If you look at their source code, they seem to be 5% content and 95% code, most of it scripting upon scripting, for the sake of it rather than needing it. It's just ripe for bad coding to run berserk on you. -- uname -rsvp Linux 3.10.0-1160.49.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Tue Nov 30 15:51:32 UTC 2021 x86_64 Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list.

On 1/14/22 08:50, Robert Moskowitz wrote: Newegg delivered quickly; memory came yesterday. Tested out 16GB first in 'old' x140e that has F32 installed.  It worked ok running overnight.  So I updated this current F35 x140e and all seems fine: # free                total        used        free      shared buff/cache   available Mem:        15625916     6972216     6874788      108000 1778912     8210296 Swap:       25165816           0    25165816 Will see how this looks in a week.

earlyoom has a block on killing the main firefox process, it only kills one of the 8 tab managers. Basically firefox and all tabs stay intact and firefox tells you some of the tabs have crashed and when you go back into that tab it loads right back up. And when you kill (x) the window that tells the main firefox process to close and cleanup all of the tabs, and they go away. Earlyoom works relatively cleanly to control firefox, it is way less annoying than paging on an ssd and basically having to push the power button because nothing is responding and a power button push and reboot and restart of firefox is faster than waiting for it to respond. We can all hope that the browsers get fixed and don't eat ram, but firefox(on both windows and linux), IE(on windows) have had this problem off and on since they were first created, so if the current memory leaks get fixed some less than careful developer will fix and/or add a feature putting another leak back. So, we will always have a new set of leaks to deal with. On Thu, Jan 13, 2022 at 6:01 PM Tim via users <users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org&gt; wrote: > > On Thu, 2022-01-13 at 08:45 -0500, Robert Moskowitz wrote: > > So those background tabs tend to have things running along, and I do > > have to figure out this earlyoom to see if it might help here. > > Oh, for what it's worth, you might find earlyoom to bring its own set > of annoyances. If it detects you're close to running out of memory the > behaviour is to try and kill off the process heavily consuming memory. > It won't actually stop the application from using too much resources > but let it keep on running. > > i.e. Firefox will be quit, or it will crash. > > The idea is that the errant application will be halted, rather than > your entire system. Which makes sense, there's little else it can do, > but you'll need to be able to manage resuming Firefox from where you > last had it. > > My experience with Firefox's restore last session feature was only with > multiple tabs, not multiple windows. I know I can't manually kill > multiple windows and than restart and get them all back, I only get > back the last closed window. I've discovered that often enough when > I've accidentally opened a new window instead of tab, and accidentally > closed the wrong window. I don't know how it'll behave when it's been > system killed. > > Things like earlyoom are only trying to work around the actual problem, > an errant program that really needs fixing. We know there are pages > that try and use 99.9%, or maybe 101% of resources, there always has > been, and there always will be, the browser needs to be designed to > better handle that, rather than just expect the user (or OS) to quit > the browser to regain control. > > -- > > uname -rsvp > Linux 3.10.0-1160.49.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Tue Nov 30 15:51:32 UTC 2021 x86_64 > > Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. > I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list. > > _______________________________________________ > users mailing list -- users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure

On 1/14/22 03:02, Samuel Sieb wrote: Thanks.  This is worth knowing when I accidentally close the wrong window.

On Wed, 2022-01-12 at 08:40 -0500, Robert Moskowitz wrote: I used to rely on this behaviour, but it frequently didn't work properly. I don't know if it's because I use KDE rather than Gnome, but the extension has proved more reliable though still not perfect. poc

I have 18 instances of Firefox running.  All with multiple tabs for different projects.  I use top a lot, but only with defaults and don't see from the manpage how to sort by RSS.  Here is a 'simple' copy of top: Tasks: 266 total,   2 running, 264 sleeping,   0 stopped,   0 zombie %Cpu(s): 17.4 us,  9.2 sy,  0.0 ni, 72.0 id,  0.0 wa,  1.2 hi, 0.2 si,  0.0 st MiB Mem :   7207.7 total,    678.7 free,   6235.8 used,    293.1 buff/cache MiB Swap:  23591.0 total,  17723.1 free,   5867.9 used.    680.5 avail Mem     PID USER      PR  NI    VIRT    RES    SHR S  %CPU  %MEM TIME+ COMMAND  311428 rgm       20   0 4472108 282892  52312 S  32.3   3.8 83:11.00 GeckoMain  318444 rgm       20   0 2484192  42284  31188 S  11.6   0.6 4:15.29 Isolated Web +     995 root      20   0  978020  47764  17620 R  10.2   0.6 930:38.94 Xorg    1561 rgm       20   0  193304  16100   2216 S   8.3   0.2 1072:30 pipewire-pulse     124 root      20   0       0      0      0 S   4.6   0.0 201:38.20 kswapd0    1559 rgm       20   0  131104   4572   2312 S   4.6   0.1 590:18.02 pipewire  311165 rgm       20   0 4433824 204088  30632 S   4.6   2.8 20:55.96 thunderbird    1359 rgm       20   0 1223972  16700   9748 S   4.0   0.2 75:50.16 xfwm4  315376 rgm       20   0 2732856 133556  27256 S   4.0   1.8 6:08.20 Isolated Web +      38 root      20   0       0      0      0 S   3.6   0.0 62:49.14 kcompactd0  312140 rgm       20   0 2488436  19196  13760 S   2.6   0.3 6:47.73 Isolated Web +  311727 rgm       20   0 2567436  74584  13952 S   2.3   1.0 7:45.49 Isolated Web +  316664 rgm       20   0 2696948  64788  15756 S   1.7   0.9 1:52.87 Isolated Web +  311949 rgm       20   0 2794036  86796  18400 S   1.3   1.2 4:34.23 Isolated Web +  313216 rgm       20   0 2708484  77072  16160 S   1.3   1.0 7:06.57 Isolated Web +  318480 rgm       20   0 2633452  19660  14432 S   1.3   0.3 0:34.27 Isolated Web +  319746 rgm       20   0   10612   4196   3324 R   1.3   0.1 0:00.11 top In a couple days, I will see the swap usage grow.  Until I Quit firefox, then restart with all the old windows opening. But I really never exit Firefox unless forced to. On 1/11/22 16:33, John Mellor wrote:

On Tue, 2022-01-11 at 14:58 -0700, linux guy wrote: Okay, we're all coming around to your place to use your computer, then. ;-) -- uname -rsvp Linux 3.10.0-1160.49.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Tue Nov 30 15:51:32 UTC 2021 x86_64 Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted. I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list.

On 1/11/22 17:00, linux guy wrote: I will look for it. What is current in F35:  95.0.2

if it is not installed, dnf install earlyoom. On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 4:04 PM Roger Heflin <rogerheflin(a)gmail.com&gt; wrote: > > You can go into the firefox about:config and reduce the number of > threads to less. Too many threads seem to make the ram creep worse. > > ps axuww | sort -k 6n > > I have earlyoom taking care of killing as needed. > > in /etc/default/earlyoom I have this set: > EARLYOOM_ARGS="-s 90,90 -r 300 -m 2 --prefer '^Web Content$' --avoid > '^(dnf|packagekitd|gnome-shell|gnome-session-c|gnome-session-b|lightdm|sddm|sddm-helper|gdm|gdm-wayland-ses|gdm-session-wor|gdm-x-session|Xorg|Xwayland|systemd|systemd-logind|dbus-daemon|dbus-broker|cinnamon|cinnamon-sessio|kwin_x11|kwin_wayland|plasmashell|ksmserver|plasma_session|startplasma-way|xfce4-session|mate-session|marco|lxqt-session|openbox)$'" > > > I probably need to increase the swap free (90% free required) to say > 95% so basically the killing starts if it starts to swap. > > On Tue, Jan 11, 2022 at 3:56 PM Robert Moskowitz <rgm(a)htt-consult.com&gt; wrote: > > > > I have 18 instances of Firefox running. All with multiple tabs for > > different projects. I use top a lot, but only with defaults and don't > > see from the manpage how to sort by RSS. Here is a 'simple' copy of top: > > > > Tasks: 266 total, 2 running, 264 sleeping, 0 stopped, 0 zombie > > %Cpu(s): 17.4 us, 9.2 sy, 0.0 ni, 72.0 id, 0.0 wa, 1.2 hi, 0.2 si, > > 0.0 st > > MiB Mem : 7207.7 total, 678.7 free, 6235.8 used, 293.1 buff/cache > > MiB Swap: 23591.0 total, 17723.1 free, 5867.9 used. 680.5 avail Mem > > > > PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND > > 311428 rgm 20 0 4472108 282892 52312 S 32.3 3.8 83:11.00 > > GeckoMain > > 318444 rgm 20 0 2484192 42284 31188 S 11.6 0.6 4:15.29 > > Isolated Web + > > 995 root 20 0 978020 47764 17620 R 10.2 0.6 930:38.94 > > Xorg > > 1561 rgm 20 0 193304 16100 2216 S 8.3 0.2 1072:30 > > pipewire-pulse > > 124 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 4.6 0.0 201:38.20 > > kswapd0 > > 1559 rgm 20 0 131104 4572 2312 S 4.6 0.1 590:18.02 > > pipewire > > 311165 rgm 20 0 4433824 204088 30632 S 4.6 2.8 20:55.96 > > thunderbird > > 1359 rgm 20 0 1223972 16700 9748 S 4.0 0.2 75:50.16 > > xfwm4 > > 315376 rgm 20 0 2732856 133556 27256 S 4.0 1.8 6:08.20 > > Isolated Web + > > 38 root 20 0 0 0 0 S 3.6 0.0 62:49.14 > > kcompactd0 > > 312140 rgm 20 0 2488436 19196 13760 S 2.6 0.3 6:47.73 > > Isolated Web + > > 311727 rgm 20 0 2567436 74584 13952 S 2.3 1.0 7:45.49 > > Isolated Web + > > 316664 rgm 20 0 2696948 64788 15756 S 1.7 0.9 1:52.87 > > Isolated Web + > > 311949 rgm 20 0 2794036 86796 18400 S 1.3 1.2 4:34.23 > > Isolated Web + > > 313216 rgm 20 0 2708484 77072 16160 S 1.3 1.0 7:06.57 > > Isolated Web + > > 318480 rgm 20 0 2633452 19660 14432 S 1.3 0.3 0:34.27 > > Isolated Web + > > 319746 rgm 20 0 10612 4196 3324 R 1.3 0.1 0:00.11 top > > > > In a couple days, I will see the swap usage grow. Until I Quit firefox, > > then restart with all the old windows opening. > > > > But I really never exit Firefox unless forced to. > > > > On 1/11/22 16:33, John Mellor wrote: > > > What on earth are you doing in Firefox and Thunderbird to use that > > > swap? I have multiple 8GB machines running the same Fedora, Firefox > > > and Thunderbird, and virtually never get into swap at all. Two the > > > these machines are also Lenovo. This makes no sense, so there must be > > > something else hogging all that memory. Do a top and sort by RSS and > > > see what the real problem app is. > > > > > > -- > > > > > > John Mellor > > > > > > > > > On 2022-01-11 12:30 p.m., Robert Moskowitz wrote: > > >> The specs for my Lenovo x140e is 8GB, which I have and it seems to be > > >> not enough. > > >> > > >> $ free > > >> total used free shared buff/cache > > >> available > > >> Mem: 7380668 6930852 262676 1492 187140 > > >> 221144 > > >> Swap: 24157176 12044096 12113080 > > >> > > >> > > >> Firefox seems to be a bit part of the problem. I quit it and see: > > >> > > >> $ free > > >> total used free shared buff/cache > > >> available > > >> Mem: 7380668 5146100 1776840 1364 457728 > > >> 1948864 > > >> Swap: 24157176 5270956 18886220 > > >> > > >> I am running a VM at 2Gb and a couple of Thunderbird sessions. > > >> Closing these TB and waiting a while I drop down to > > >> > > >> $ free > > >> total used free shared buff/cache > > >> available > > >> Mem: 7380668 3751784 1148396 16228 2480488 > > >> 3272716 > > >> Swap: 24157176 2422956 21734220 > > >> > > >> > > >> but really the bottom line is I need more memory for the tasks at > > >> hand. Firefox has all these weird processes running eating up lots > > >> of memory and swapping like crazy. Probably bad for my SSD drive. > > >> > > >> So how to get to 16GB memory? > > >> > > >> What follows the x140e in the 12" format? I can't figure this out > > >> from basic Lenovo sales stuff. Probably going to have to find a > > >> Lenovo forum to get the info. > > >> > > >> But CompuRAM in UK says they can support up to 32GB on the x140e > > >> using "newer SO-DIMM chips". Crucial only sells 4GB for the x140e. > > >> > > >> Anyone have any knowledge on this? Other than booting and getting > > >> into settings, how do I figure out my bios version? And to see if > > >> Lenovo has a newer one that probably CompuRAM is counting on? > > >> > > >> Any US memory sources that will support more memory for the x140e? I > > >> really don't want to deal with overseas shipping and support. > > >> > > >> And back to the "newer" hardware question on 140 followon. > > >> > > >> thanks for any input. All this swapping is taking time when I really > > >> have to wait for the system to bring in what is needed and things to > > >> start working. > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> users mailing list -- users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org > > >> To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org > > >> Fedora Code of Conduct: > > >> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > > >> List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > > >> List Archives: > > >> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org > > >> Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: > > >> https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure > > > _______________________________________________ > > > users mailing list -- users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org > > > To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org > > > Fedora Code of Conduct: > > > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > > > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > > > List Archives: > > > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org > > > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: > > > https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure > > _______________________________________________ > > users mailing list -- users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org > > To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org > > Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > > List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org > > Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure