9:25 a.m.
Hi,
I am ordering a souped-up workstation and I was wondering which graphics card is
preferable for running fedora:
a 256 MB PCIe x16 nVidia NVS 290, Dual Monitor capable
or
a
ATI Fire GL V3600 256MB, Dual Monitor DVI Capable ATI3600
What would you suggest? I do not need huge 3-d acceleration and stuff, but want it to work
well.
Please let me know if I should provide more information.
Best wishes,
Trotter
9:41 a.m.
Le 28/04/2009 16:25, Globe Trotter a écrit :
Hi,
I am ordering a souped-up workstation and I was wondering which graphics card is
preferable for running fedora:
a 256 MB PCIe x16 nVidia NVS 290, Dual Monitor capable
or
a
ATI Fire GL V3600 256MB, Dual Monitor DVI Capable ATI3600
What would you suggest? I do not need huge 3-d acceleration and stuff, but want it to
work well.
Please let me know if I should provide more information.
Best wishes,
Trotter
I would personnaly choose a nvidia card, and I would use the proprietary
driver. Every-day user-experience is more "smooth" and looks prettier to
me (windows rendering, refresh, switch, and so on) with the proprietary
drivers. (Same for ATI imho).
9:43 a.m.
Globe Trotter wrote:
Hi,
I am ordering a souped-up workstation and I was wondering which graphics card is
preferable for running fedora:
a 256 MB PCIe x16 nVidia NVS 290, Dual Monitor capable
or
a
ATI Fire GL V3600 256MB, Dual Monitor DVI Capable ATI3600
What would you suggest? I do not need huge 3-d acceleration and stuff, but want it to
work well.
Please let me know if I should provide more information.
Best wishes,
Trotter
Trotter,
If you like re-configuring or re-installing drivers at ever kernel
change then OK you can do either. The bad news is ATI and nVidia are
not fully natively supported in XWindows in most circumstances without
the proprietary drivers. There are repos that support these two and
work is being done for native support... but, alas it is SLOW in coming.
Tips:
If you choose either of these, only do so with the intent to CAREFULLY
update kernels and drivers. Don't try updating the kernel if there is
no driver update available, you may regret this decision.
Next, try getting an older model ATI or nVidia card, support is easier
for the older models than the newer ones. Linux is also a bit slow at
getting newer cards supported natively, without going to proprietary
drivers.
James
10:17 a.m.
Thanks very much! I will try for an older graphics card. Do I have options other than ATI
or nVidia that would not have these issues. I do not want to mess with kernel and driver
re-configurations. I expect it to be a month before my machine actually shows up, btw.
Best wishes,
Trotter
--- On Tue, 4/28/09, James Kosin <jkosin(a)beta.intcomgrp.com> wrote:
From: James Kosin <jkosin(a)beta.intcomgrp.com>
Subject: Re: nVidia vs. ATI graphics card for fedora
To: itsme_410(a)yahoo.com, "Community assistance, encouragement, and advice for using
Fedora." <fedora-list(a)redhat.com>
Date: Tuesday, April 28, 2009, 10:43 AM
Globe Trotter wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am ordering a souped-up workstation and I was
wondering which graphics card is preferable for running
fedora:
>
> a 256 MB PCIe x16 nVidia NVS 290, Dual Monitor capable
>
> or
>
> a
> ATI Fire GL V3600 256MB, Dual Monitor DVI Capable
ATI3600
>
> What would you suggest? I do not need huge 3-d
acceleration and stuff, but want it to work well.
>
> Please let me know if I should provide more
information.
>
> Best wishes,
> Trotter
>
Trotter,
If you like re-configuring or re-installing drivers at ever
kernel
change then OK you can do either. The bad news is ATI and
nVidia are
not fully natively supported in XWindows in most
circumstances without
the proprietary drivers. There are repos that support
these two and
work is being done for native support... but, alas it is
SLOW in coming.
Tips:
If you choose either of these, only do so with the intent
to CAREFULLY
update kernels and drivers. Don't try updating the
kernel if there is
no driver update available, you may regret this decision.
Next, try getting an older model ATI or nVidia card,
support is easier
for the older models than the newer ones. Linux is also a
bit slow at
getting newer cards supported natively, without going to
proprietary
drivers.
James
--
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10:20 a.m.
Around 04:17pm on Tuesday, April 28, 2009 (UK time), Globe Trotter scrawled:
Thanks very much! I will try for an older graphics card. Do I have
options other than ATI or nVidia that would not have these issues. I
do not want to mess with kernel and driver re-configurations. I expect
it to be a month before my machine actually shows up, btw.
I have NOT used them myself, but from what I have read here Intel seems
to the simplest option. However I have used the open source (default)
drivers for both ATI and Nvidia without problems.
Steve
--
(o< www.stevesearle.com
//\ Powered by Fedora
V_/_ No MS products were used in the creation of this message
16:18:48 up 22 days, 3:41, 1 user, load average: 0.02, 0.01, 0.02
11:51 a.m.
On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 07:25:52 -0700,
Globe Trotter <itsme_410(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi,
I am ordering a souped-up workstation and I was wondering which graphics card is
preferable for running fedora:
a 256 MB PCIe x16 nVidia NVS 290, Dual Monitor capable
or
a
ATI Fire GL V3600 256MB, Dual Monitor DVI Capable ATI3600
What would you suggest? I do not need huge 3-d acceleration and stuff, but want it to
work well.
I am using a FireGL 3400 at work and it is working well with F11 (right now).
There have been points during this rawhide when it didn't, but it looks like
but KMS and 3D will be working for the release (as they are right now).
If you use an nVidia card you will need to use the propietary drivers to get
3D acceleration. The default drivers for nVidia are switching from nv to
nouveau in F11. My understanding is that this provides some improvement, but
you still only get 2D acceleration.
P.S. I have some bias in that I want to support companies like AMD/ATI and
Intel when they make the data for how to use their hardware public as
compared to companies like nVidia that don't. So while I have some scrounged
nVidia hardware around, when I actually buy new stuff I have been going
with ATI.
12:30 p.m.
James Kosin wrote:
Globe Trotter wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am ordering a souped-up workstation and I was wondering which graphics
> card is preferable for running fedora:
>
> a 256 MB PCIe x16 nVidia NVS 290, Dual Monitor capable
>
> or
>
> a
> ATI Fire GL V3600 256MB, Dual Monitor DVI Capable ATI3600
>
> What would you suggest? I do not need huge 3-d acceleration and stuff,
> but want it to work well.
>
> Please let me know if I should provide more information.
>
> Best wishes,
> Trotter
>
Trotter,
If you like re-configuring or re-installing drivers at ever kernel
change then OK you can do either. The bad news is ATI and nVidia are
not fully natively supported in XWindows in most circumstances without
the proprietary drivers. There are repos that support these two and
work is being done for native support... but, alas it is SLOW in coming.
Tips:
If you choose either of these, only do so with the intent to CAREFULLY
update kernels and drivers. Don't try updating the kernel if there is
no driver update available, you may regret this decision.
Next, try getting an older model ATI or nVidia card, support is easier
for the older models than the newer ones. Linux is also a bit slow at
getting newer cards supported natively, without going to proprietary
drivers.
I think you will not have any issues with upgrading kernels using recent
rpmfusion packages.
I believe the above advice is obsolete.
12:46 p.m.
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:30:21 -0400
Neal Becker wrote:
I think you will not have any issues with upgrading kernels using
recent
rpmfusion packages.
Especially if you install the akmod packages, so it can build the module
from source if the updated binary isn't yet in the repo mirror.
1:58 p.m.
FWIW, I've got dual-head working with an ATI Radeon X1550. Nothing
special about my system except a custom xorg.conf. I'm using the
standard radeon driver, so I don't worry at all about kernel updates.
Just to let you know that it just works, with the custom config caveat.
3:31 p.m.
Globe Trotter wrote:
Hi,
I am ordering a souped-up workstation and I was wondering which
graphics card is preferable for running fedora:
a 256 MB PCIe x16 nVidia NVS 290, Dual Monitor capable
or
a ATI Fire GL V3600 256MB, Dual Monitor DVI Capable ATI3600
What would you suggest? I do not need huge 3-d acceleration and
stuff, but want it to work well.
Please let me know if I should provide more information.
Best wishes, Trotter
I would normally recommend Nvidia as I have used them since the
beginning of Fedora with little or no problems after fighting with ATI
for over a month. But with AMD purchasing ATI, I would look at them as
well.
I have a computer with an Intel video chip built on the motherboard but
it doesn't like Fedora. It is the one chip that is not well supported
in Linux. Replaced it with an Nvidia.
The AKMOD package is supposed to work like a dream but there are times
that it hasn't. If you need 3D, I can only say that Nvidia has been
great for me.
--
Robin Laing
4:32 p.m.
On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 08:17:48 -0700,
Globe Trotter <itsme_410(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
Thanks very much! I will try for an older graphics card. Do I have options other than ATI
or nVidia that would not have these issues. I do not want to mess with kernel and driver
re-configurations. I expect it to be a month before my machine actually shows up, btw.
The ATI information is a bit outdated. Support for r5xx cards is pretty
good in F11. r6xx and r7xx stuff is still a work in progress, but 2D
support is already working. This is with the radeon driver
(xorg-x11-drv-ati) not the propietary driver.
4:54 p.m.
On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 10:43 -0400, James Kosin wrote:
Globe Trotter wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am ordering a souped-up workstation and I was wondering which
graphics card is preferable for running fedora:
>
> a 256 MB PCIe x16 nVidia NVS 290, Dual Monitor capable
>
> or
>
> a
> ATI Fire GL V3600 256MB, Dual Monitor DVI Capable ATI3600
>
> What would you suggest? I do not need huge 3-d acceleration and
stuff, but want it to work well.
>
> Please let me know if I should provide more information.
>
> Best wishes,
> Trotter
>
Trotter,
If you like re-configuring or re-installing drivers at ever kernel
change then OK you can do either. The bad news is ATI and nVidia are
not fully natively supported in XWindows in most circumstances without
the proprietary drivers. There are repos that support these two and
work is being done for native support... but, alas it is SLOW in coming.
Tips:
If you choose either of these, only do so with the intent to CAREFULLY
update kernels and drivers. Don't try updating the kernel if there is
no driver update available, you may regret this decision.
Next, try getting an older model ATI or nVidia card, support is easier
for the older models than the newer ones. Linux is also a bit slow at
getting newer cards supported natively, without going to proprietary
drivers.
It's worth pointing out that RPMfusion provides RPMs with kernel modules
for the proprietary versions of both drivers. The akmod-nvidia RPM
seamlessly rebuilds the driver when a new kernel is installed. I assume
that the same applies for the ATI packages, but I haven't used them.
James
--
Matthew Saltzman
Clemson University Math Sciences
mjs AT clemson DOT edu
http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs
6:50 p.m.
Globe Trotter wrote:
Thanks very much! I will try for an older graphics card. Do I have
options
other than ATI or nVidia that would not have these issues. I do not want
to mess with kernel and driver re-configurations. I expect it to be a
month before my machine actually shows up, btw.
See: http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/ATIRadeon (towards the bottom) for what
cards are fully supported by the Free Software driver (and thus work out of
the box in Fedora in both 2D and 3D) at this stage (in short: <= X1950).
Kevin Kofler
6:51 p.m.
Tom Horsley wrote:
Especially if you install the akmod packages, so it can build the
module
from source if the updated binary isn't yet in the repo mirror.
Which is a horribly ugly "solution". Fedora is not Gentoo.
If you use standard prebuilt kmods, you still need to be careful with kernel
upgrades.
Kevin Kofler
6:55 p.m.
Bruno Wolff III wrote:
I am using a FireGL 3400 at work and it is working well with F11
(right
now). There have been points during this rawhide when it didn't, but it
looks like but KMS and 3D will be working for the release (as they are
right now).
WARNING: This is only true for the V3400 (which is an rv530, equivalent to
the Radeon X1600), not the V3600 the OP was considering buying (which is an
rv630, equivalent to the Radeon HD2600). The V3600 does NOT have 3D support
without proprietary drivers. See http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/ATIRadeon
for details.
If you use an nVidia card you will need to use the propietary drivers
to
get 3D acceleration.
... which makes them a bad choice for Fedora.
Kevin Kofler
6:58 p.m.
Globe Trotter wrote:
a 256 MB PCIe x16 nVidia NVS 290, Dual Monitor capable
ATI Fire GL V3600 256MB, Dual Monitor DVI Capable ATI3600
Neither of those are good options, as they both only fully work with
proprietary drivers. (In particular, you don't get any OpenGL support in
Fedora out of the box with those, dual monitor might also not work without
proprietary drivers (especially with the nVidia card) and the proprietary
drivers cause several types of hassle and often have bugs which are
impossible to fix for anybody other than the manufacturer.)
An older Radeon (up to r5xx, see http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/ATIRadeon )
is a better choice.
Kevin Kofler
7:36 p.m.
On Tuesday 28 April 2009 17:58:38 Kevin Kofler wrote:
Globe Trotter wrote:
> a 256 MB PCIe x16 nVidia NVS 290, Dual Monitor capable
> ATI Fire GL V3600 256MB, Dual Monitor DVI Capable ATI3600
Neither of those are good options, as they both only fully work with
proprietary drivers. (In particular, you don't get any OpenGL support in
Fedora out of the box with those, dual monitor might also not work without
proprietary drivers (especially with the nVidia card) and the proprietary
drivers cause several types of hassle and often have bugs which are
impossible to fix for anybody other than the manufacturer.)
An older Radeon (up to r5xx, see http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/ATIRadeon
) is a better choice.
Kevin Kofler
I have a Dell with an Nvidia Quadro FX 3700 and Fedora 10. I get 3d, openGL,
desktop effects, dual moniters, the works. All by using the kmod_nvidia package
9:27 p.m.
Kevin Kempter wrote:
I have a Dell with an Nvidia Quadro FX 3700 and Fedora 10. I get 3d,
openGL, desktop effects, dual moniters, the works. All by using the
kmod_nvidia package
... which is not part of Fedora, is not Free Software and in fact doesn't
have source code available at all for the main portion, thus making it
impossible for anybody other than nVidia to fix any issues with it. And
there have been plenty of those issues, and there will undoubtedly be more
in the future.
It is completely counterproductive to recommend hardware requiring
proprietary drivers. Those drivers are NOT SUPPORTED in Fedora, if there's
any issue with them, you're on your own (we'll close the bugs CANTFIX as
there's really nothing we can do to fix them, see the first paragraph).
Kevin Kofler
10:18 a.m.
--- On Tue, 4/28/09, Kevin Kofler <kevin.kofler(a)chello.at> wrote:
From: Kevin Kofler <kevin.kofler(a)chello.at>
Subject: Re: nVidia vs. ATI graphics card for fedora
To: fedora-list(a)redhat.com
Date: Tuesday, April 28, 2009, 7:55 PM
Bruno Wolff III wrote:
> I am using a FireGL 3400 at work and it is working
well with F11 (right
> now). There have been points during this rawhide when
it didn't, but it
> looks like but KMS and 3D will be working for the
release (as they are
> right now).
WARNING: This is only true for the V3400 (which is an
rv530, equivalent to
the Radeon X1600), not the V3600 the OP was considering
buying (which is an
rv630, equivalent to the Radeon HD2600). The V3600 does NOT
have 3D support
without proprietary drivers. See
http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/ATIRadeon
for details.
> If you use an nVidia card you will need to use the
propietary drivers to
> get 3D acceleration.
... which makes them a bad choice for Fedora.
Kevin Kofler
Hi,
How about the ATI Fire GL V7600 512MB,Dual Monitor DVI Capable graphics card? Same
issues, or worse?
I really don't care about 3-D support: don't quite know what to do with it:-(
Best,
Trotter
10:36 a.m.
Kevin Kofler wrote:
Tom Horsley wrote:
> Especially if you install the akmod packages, so it can build the module
> from source if the updated binary isn't yet in the repo mirror.
Which is a horribly ugly "solution". Fedora is not Gentoo.
If you use standard prebuilt kmods, you still need to be careful with kernel
upgrades.
Kevin Kofler
But AKMOD is a great way of getting the latest security updates into the
system without waiting for a module to be produced. I like the idea of
dkms akmod as it can make life easier.
--
Robin Laing
10:41 a.m.
Kevin Kofler wrote:
Kevin Kempter wrote:
> I have a Dell with an Nvidia Quadro FX 3700 and Fedora 10. I get 3d,
> openGL, desktop effects, dual moniters, the works. All by using the
> kmod_nvidia package
... which is not part of Fedora, is not Free Software and in fact doesn't
have source code available at all for the main portion, thus making it
impossible for anybody other than nVidia to fix any issues with it. And
there have been plenty of those issues, and there will undoubtedly be more
in the future.
It is completely counterproductive to recommend hardware requiring
proprietary drivers. Those drivers are NOT SUPPORTED in Fedora, if there's
any issue with them, you're on your own (we'll close the bugs CANTFIX as
there's really nothing we can do to fix them, see the first paragraph).
Kevin Kofler
But until there are good open source drivers that support full 3D, there
are not many options out there. Thank copyrights and patent laws for
making it so hard to produce open source drivers.
Without support for 3D, many users wouldn't touch Linux. I know that I
wouldn't be able to use Linux at home and I would be stuck with either
Windows or Macs which my family don't like.
As for the CANTFIX, I don't argue with that as it is impossible to know
what the problems are. It would be better to explain to the filers to
submit the bugs to the manufacturer. Of course it is hard to find bugs
in certain software without 3D support. You can end up with a catch 22
condition.
--
Robin Laing
11:29 a.m.
Tom Horsley:
> Especially if you install the akmod packages, so it can build the
module
> from source if the updated binary isn't yet in the repo mirror.
Kevin Kofler:
Which is a horribly ugly "solution". Fedora is not Gentoo.
An ugly problem is having to recompile a pile of other things just
because of some update to a kernel, whether it's you that does the
compiling, or someone pre-compiles it for you. Especially when it
entails downloading whacking great megabytes of packages to deal with a
few kilobytes of changes (presto notwithstanding). It always baffled me
that with an open-source system, the updates weren't merely patches for
you to apply the last version. And, even then, it really shouldn't be
necessary to have to change a pile of other things unless the interface
between them and the kernel changed.
--
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r
2.6.27.21-78.2.41.fc9.i686
Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I
read messages from the public lists.
11:57 a.m.
Tim wrote:
An ugly problem is having to recompile a pile of other things just
because of some update to a kernel, whether it's you that does the
compiling, or someone pre-compiles it for you. Especially when it
entails downloading whacking great megabytes of packages to deal with a
few kilobytes of changes (presto notwithstanding). It always baffled me
that with an open-source system, the updates weren't merely patches for
you to apply the last version. And, even then, it really shouldn't be
necessary to have to change a pile of other things unless the interface
between them and the kernel changed.
The problem there is modules which are not part of the kernel. Fedora does
not support out-of-tree modules, especially proprietary ones. All the
modules actually IN the kernel get automatically upgraded as part of the
kernel package with no hassle.
Kevin Kofler
noon
Globe Trotter wrote:
How about the ATI Fire GL V7600 512MB,Dual Monitor DVI Capable
graphics
card? Same issues, or worse?
Same. It's an r600 series. Please read the page I linked:
http://dri.freedesktop.org/wiki/ATIRadeon
I really don't care about 3-D support: don't quite know what
to do with
it:-(
Desktop effects, for example.
If you pick one of those r600 or higher Radeon/FireGL cards, you end up
paying more and actually getting less.
Kevin Kofler
12:05 p.m.
Robin Laing wrote:
But until there are good open source drivers that support full 3D,
there
are not many options out there. Thank copyrights and patent laws for
making it so hard to produce open source drivers.
Without support for 3D, many users wouldn't touch Linux. I know that I
wouldn't be able to use Linux at home and I would be stuck with either
Windows or Macs which my family don't like.
3D just works, without proprietary drivers, with:
* Intel integrated chipsets (except the GMA500, which is part of "Poulsbo")
* ATI Radeons <= r5xx (that's <= X1950)
So there's plenty of choice there, no excuses.
As for the CANTFIX, I don't argue with that as it is impossible
to know
what the problems are. It would be better to explain to the filers to
submit the bugs to the manufacturer.
That's what we do. Unfortunately, users usually try to argue about it and
complain about us closing the bug rather than doing what they need to do to
get their bug actually fixed.
Kevin Kofler
12:37 p.m.
On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 9:25 AM, Globe Trotter <itsme_410(a)yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi,
I am ordering a souped-up workstation and I was wondering which graphics card is
preferable for running fedora:
a 256 MB PCIe x16 nVidia NVS 290, Dual Monitor capable
or
a
ATI Fire GL V3600 256MB, Dual Monitor DVI Capable ATI3600
What would you suggest? I do not need huge 3-d acceleration and stuff, but want it to
work well.
Please let me know if I should provide more information.
Best wishes,
Trotter
You know, I have an nVidia and it works wonders!
BUT!!
Check out this website:
http://free3d.org/
and, also:
http://www.fsf.org/resources/hw
--
It's hard to be free... but I love to struggle!
Renich Bon Ciric
http://www.woralelandia.com/
http://www.introbella.com/
5:41 p.m.
Renich Bon Ciric wrote:
Check out this website:
http://free3d.org/
Unfortunately, they're trying to use glxgears as a benchmark, so their
results should be taken with a grain of salt. In particular, I'm not sure
r5xx Radeons really perform worse with the DRI drivers than r4xx ones.
Kevin Kofler
5487
days inactive
5491
days old
27 comments
14 participants
participants (14)
-
Alan Evans -
Axel -
Bruno Wolff III -
Globe Trotter -
James Kosin -
Kevin Kempter -
Kevin Kofler -
Matthew Saltzman -
Neal Becker -
Renich Bon Ciric -
Robin Laing -
Steve Searle -
Tim -
Tom Horsley