3 a.m.
I've just upgraded from F34 to F35 and have troubles with KDE vs
Wayland and X11.
Wayland is very flaky, crashes of various kinds, sometimes killing
individual apps, sometimes an entire session. I can't reproduce the
crashes reliably; they happen when they happen. The only thing that may
be relevant is that I am running Firefox with many (probably too many)
windows and tabs.
X11 messes up konsole, the KDE terminal emulator. When typing onto the
screen, not displaying text generated by an application, the test
appears slowly and with many strange artifacts. It looks like the text
appears on one interlace and then gradually gets better; the text takes
about 500 msec to recover; the same thing happens with window
decorations when I mouse over them. I have attempted to record screen
behavior using simplescreenrecorder, but when I start it, the problem
goes away.
Right now I'm using X11 with gnome-terminal, which doesn't show the
problem.
System is:
Operating System: Fedora Linux 35
KDE Plasma Version: 5.23.4
KDE Frameworks Version: 5.89.0
Qt Version: 5.15.2
Kernel Version: 5.15.12-200.fc35.x86_64 (64-bit)
Graphics Platform: X11
Processors: 8 × Intel® Core™ i7-4790K CPU @ 4.00GHz
Memory: 15.5 GiB of RAM
Graphics Processor: Mesa Intel® HD Graphics 4600
--
All Suggestions Welcome - Jonathan Ryshpan <jonrysh(a)pacbell.net>
What is love? 'tis not hereafter;
Present mirth hath present laughter.
What's to come is still unsure:
In delay there lies no plenty,
Then come kiss me, sweet and twenty.
Youth's a stuff will not endure."
-- Shakespeare's Twelfth Night
3:18 a.m.
On Wed, 2022-01-05 at 01:00 -0800, Jonathan Ryshpan wrote:
X11 messes up konsole, the KDE terminal emulator. When typing onto
the screen, not displaying text generated by an application, the test
appears slowly and with many strange artifacts. It looks like the
text appears on one interlace and then gradually gets better; the
text takes about 500 msec to recover; the same thing happens with
window decorations when I mouse over them. I have attempted to record
screen behavior using simplescreenrecorder, but when I start it, the
problem goes away.
The highlighted text is actually not true. The problem occurs with
many KDE applications, e.g. kpat and simplescreenrecorder. Starting
simplescreenrecorder does make the artifacts stop.
--
Many Thanks - Jonathan Ryshpan <jonrysh(a)pacbell.net>
Anyone can do any amount of work, provided
it isn't the work he is supposed to be doing.
--Robert Benchley
3:19 a.m.
On 1/5/22 01:00, Jonathan Ryshpan wrote:
Wayland is very flaky, crashes of various kinds, sometimes killing
individual apps, sometimes an entire session. I can't reproduce the
crashes reliably; they happen when they happen. The only thing that may
be relevant is that I am running Firefox with many (probably too many)
windows and tabs.
It's probably not Wayland. When it happens, check the journal. It's
likely the OOM killer.
3:56 a.m.
On Wed, 2022-01-05 at 01:19 -0800, Samuel Sieb wrote:
On 1/5/22 01:00, Jonathan Ryshpan wrote:
> Wayland is very flaky, crashes of various kinds, sometimes killing
> individual apps, sometimes an entire session. I can't reproduce
> the
> crashes reliably; they happen when they happen. The only thing that
> may
> be relevant is that I am running Firefox with many (probably too
> many)
> windows and tabs.
It's probably not Wayland. When it happens, check the journal. It's
likely the OOM killer.
Possible though not likely. I just started firefox and ksysguardm
still running X11 and gnome-terminal. The situation is:
Memory 5.9 GiB / 15.5 GiB Swap 0 B / 32.0
GiB
Also looked for action from OOM (F35 was installed on 2022-01-02 about
19:30):
$ journalctl --since 2022-01-01 | grep -i 'killed process'
$
On the other hand:
$ journalctl --since yesterday | grep -i wayland
Jan 04 05:39:45 amito org_kde_powerdevil[79877]: The Wayland connection
broke. Did the Wayland compositor die?
Jan 04 05:39:45 amito polkit-kde-authentication-agent-1[79876]: The
Wayland connection broke. Did the Wayland compositor die?
Jan 04 05:39:45 amito kactivitymanagerd[79883]: The Wayland connection
broke. Did the Wayland compositor die?
Jan 04 05:39:45 amito kded5[79965]: The Wayland connection broke. Did
the Wayland compositor die?
Jan 04 05:39:45 amito kdeconnectd[79956]: The Wayland connection broke.
Did the Wayland compositor die?
Jan 04 05:39:45 amito unknown[79959]: Lost connection to Wayland
compositor.
Jan 04 05:39:45 amito xdg-desktop-portal-kde[80214]: The Wayland
connection broke. Did the Wayland compositor die?
Jan 04 05:39:45 amito konsole[80928]: The Wayland connection broke. Did
the Wayland compositor die?
Jan 04 05:39:45 amito unknown[87054]: Lost connection to Wayland
compositor.
Jan 04 05:39:45 amito baloorunner[88772]: The Wayland connection broke.
Did the Wayland compositor die?
Jan 04 05:39:45 amito kwalletd5[99930]: The Wayland connection broke.
Did the Wayland compositor die?
Jan 04 05:39:45 amito akonadi_kalarm_resource[80438]: The Wayland
connection broke. Did the Wayland compositor die?
Jan 04 05:39:45 amito akonadi_kalarm_resource[80427]: The Wayland
connection broke. Did the Wayland compositor die?
Jan 04 05:39:45 amito akonadi_kalarm_resource[80439]: The Wayland
connection broke. Did the Wayland compositor die?
Jan 04 05:39:45 amito akonadi_archivemail_agent[80419]: The Wayland
connection broke. Did the Wayland compositor die?
Jan 04 05:39:45 amito kgpg[80023]: The Wayland connection broke. Did
the Wayland compositor die?
...
--
Many Thanks - Jonathan Ryshpan <jonrysh(a)pacbell.net>
We are sorry, but the number you have dialed is
imaginary. Please rotate your phone 90 degrees
and try again.
4:53 a.m.
On Wed, 2022-01-05 at 01:19 -0800, Samuel Sieb wrote:
On 1/5/22 01:00, Jonathan Ryshpan wrote:
> Wayland is very flaky, crashes of various kinds, sometimes killing
> individual apps, sometimes an entire session. I can't reproduce
> the
> crashes reliably; they happen when they happen. The only thing that
> may
> be relevant is that I am running Firefox with many (probably too
> many)
> windows and tabs.
It's probably not Wayland. When it happens, check the journal. It's
likely the OOM killer.
BTW: KDE is now better. No artifacts running X11, after nothing but
investigating and replying to your email. Go figure...
--
Sincerely Jonathan Ryshpan <jonrysh(a)pacbell.net>
If thousands of volunteers can make an operating system
that doesn't crash, thousands of highly paid engineers
should be able to do it, too. Then why don't they?
-- Al Fasoldt
7:40 a.m.
On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 at 06:54, Jonathan Ryshpan <jonrysh(a)pacbell.net> wrote:
On Wed, 2022-01-05 at 01:19 -0800, Samuel Sieb wrote:
On 1/5/22 01:00, Jonathan Ryshpan wrote:
Wayland is very flaky, crashes of various kinds, sometimes killing
individual apps, sometimes an entire session. I can't reproduce the
crashes reliably; they happen when they happen. The only thing that may
be relevant is that I am running Firefox with many (probably too many)
windows and tabs.
It's probably not Wayland. When it happens, check the journal. It's
likely the OOM killer.
BTW: KDE is now better. No artifacts running X11, after nothing but
investigating and replying to your email. Go figure...
Intel is no longer supporting cards that old.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/intel_graphics as usual, lots of good
detail
I have a similar vintage system that is mainly used for data transfers from
firewire and old
memory card formats, so I may not encounter edge cases with graphics using
a low-end
(small fan) nvidia card and nouveau. There are probably lots of old
graphics cards
gathering dust -- you could try ebay or a local computer users group.
--
George N. White III
12:45 p.m.
On Thu, 2022-01-06 at 09:40 -0400, George N. White III wrote:
On Wed, 5 Jan 2022 at 06:54, Jonathan Ryshpan
<jonrysh(a)pacbell.net>
wrote:
> On Wed, 2022-01-05 at 01:19 -0800, Samuel Sieb wrote:
> > On 1/5/22 01:00, Jonathan Ryshpan wrote:
> > > Wayland is very flaky, crashes of various kinds, sometimes
> > > killing individual apps, sometimes an entire session. I can't
> > > reproduce the crashes reliably; they happen when they happen.
> > > The only thing that may be relevant is that I am running
> > > Firefox with many (probably too many)
> > > windows and tabs.
> >
> > It's probably not Wayland. When it happens, check the journal.
> > It's likely the OOM killer.
> BTW: KDE is now better. No artifacts running X11, after nothing
> but investigating and replying to your email. Go figure...
Intel is no longer supporting cards that old.
A case of "planned
obsolescence". My system is more than adequate for
everything I need it to do: web surfing, email, videos, sys admin, a
little development, etc. and nonetheless the CPU is no longer under
supported. Oh well...
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/intel_graphics as usual, lots of
good detail
I have a similar vintage system that is mainly used for data
transfers from firewire and old memory card formats, so I may not
encounter edge cases with graphics using a low-end (small fan) nvidia
card and nouveau. There are probably lots of old graphics cards
gathering dust -- you could try ebay or a local computer users group.
Thanks very much. It was hardware trouble and has been cured by the
advice about "Tearing" in Archlinux.
--
Sincerely Jonathan Ryshpan <jonrysh(a)pacbell.net>
Outside of a dog, a man's best friend is a book.
Inside a dog, it's too dark to read. -- Groucho Marx
10:46 a.m.
On Thu, 6 Jan 2022 at 14:46, Jonathan Ryshpan <jonrysh(a)pacbell.net> wrote:
On Thu, 2022-01-06 at 09:40 -0400, George N. White III wrote:
[...]
Intel is no longer supporting cards that old.
A case of "planned obsolescence".
Or partly human obsolescence: the staff who wrote the original drivers are
no longer around and it doesn't make sense to train new people on hardware
that isn't generating new revenue. There have been proposal to force
vendors
to release specifications when hardware reaches "end-of-support".so that
users
can maintain old systems. This also applies to things like farm tractors.
My system is more than adequate for everything I need it to do: web
surfing, email, videos, sys admin, a little development, etc. and
nonetheless the CPU is no longer under supported. Oh well...
In my case, I try to "future proof" software I use by running it on
"bleeding edge" OS (Fedora, Debian unstable)
and when practical, contributing patches to apps or libraries when stuff
breaks.
https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/intel_graphics as usual, lots of good
detail
I have a similar vintage system that is mainly used for data transfers
from firewire and old memory card formats, so I may not encounter edge
cases with graphics using a low-end (small fan) nvidia card and nouveau.
There are probably lots of old graphics cards gathering dust -- you could
try ebay or a local computer users group.
Thanks very much. It was hardware trouble and has been cured by the
advice about "Tearing" in Archlinux.
Glad the community had a solution when the vendor did not. A lot of the
software I use was originally
developed on CDC and SGI systems, so it very careful about memory
management and efficiency, so
can run 100x faster on current hardware with as many parallel jobs (the
workflows applied the same
calculation to 1000's of input files, so trivially parallel) as the mass
storage can handle.
--
George N. White III
4:19 p.m.
On Sun, 2022-01-09 at 12:46 -0400, George N. White III wrote:
Or partly human obsolescence: the staff who wrote the original
drivers are
no longer around and it doesn't make sense to train new people on hardware
that isn't generating new revenue. There have been proposal to force vendors
to release specifications when hardware reaches "end-of-support".so that users
can maintain old systems. This also applies to things like farm tractors.
I have to say that if I'm faced with okay hardware being let down by
bad software, my inclination is not to buy replacement hardware from
the same people.
There's various vendors with track records of releasing buggy gear,
ostensibly with the notion of get it out before the competition does,
and they'll worry about patching it up later. But they never do iron
the bugs out.
Many years ago I remember reading about a court case regarding (I think
it was a mainframe system), where the customer go so sick of failures
and never ending patches, and yet still more bugs, that they sued (and
won), arguing that they didn't believe being told that problems would
be fixed with updates, that it was an outright lie.
I've had various bits of hardware designed for Windows (back when I
used to use it over 20 years ago), that was always crapping out on the
OS it was designed for. There may have been one driver update
released, maybe two, they didn't fix it. The expectation was that
you'd just buy something new in a couple of years time.
--
uname -rsvp
Linux 3.10.0-1160.49.1.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Tue Nov 30 15:51:32 UTC 2021 x86_64
Boilerplate: All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted.
I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list.
9:37 a.m.
Jonathan Ryshpan wrote:
I've just upgraded from F34 to F35 and have troubles with KDE vs
Wayland and X11.
Wayland is very flaky, crashes of various kinds, sometimes killing
individual apps, sometimes an entire session. I can't reproduce the
crashes reliably; they happen when they happen. The only thing that may
be relevant is that I am running Firefox with many (probably too many)
windows and tabs.
X11 messes up konsole, the KDE terminal emulator. When typing onto the
screen, not displaying text generated by an application, the test
appears slowly and with many strange artifacts. It looks like the text
appears on one interlace and then gradually gets better; the text takes
about 500 msec to recover; the same thing happens with window
decorations when I mouse over them. I have attempted to record screen
behavior using simplescreenrecorder, but when I start it, the problem
goes away.
Likely mesa issue, fixed by
https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2022-d9c9d567ce
See also bug
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2036600
-- Rex
827
days inactive
846
days old
9 comments
5 participants
participants (5)
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George N. White III -
Jonathan Ryshpan -
Rex Dieter -
Samuel Sieb -
Tim