8:07 a.m.
I suspect colored prompts are confusing emacs tramp. What's the easiest way to
turn it off for all users (especially root)?
8:20 a.m.
On Thu, 01 Aug 2013 09:07:07 -0400
Neal Becker wrote:
I suspect colored prompts are confusing emacs tramp. What's the
easiest way to
turn it off for all users (especially root)?
There is a whole slew of things in /etc/profile that turn on
annoying environment variables which enable things like that.
Grep for the one responsible, do an rpm -q -f /etc/profile/whatever
to see which package inflicted it on you, then yum -C erase
that package (of course, checking to see there aren't
other more critical things provided by the package :-).
7 p.m.
On 8/2/2013 7:38 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 08/02/2013 04:20 PM, David wrote:
> Then change youe user's config. That is not touched by system changes
> and will override the system configurations. You should, so I do not
> repeat, read my comment to Joe Zeff about this in this thread.
And that's why I ended up doing exactly that. It gets me what I want in
a way that system "updates" can't undo.
Well good then. You changed your system from the distroution defaults to
what you, personally, want. What works for you.
Windows users do that. they set the default installed system to what
they want. MacOS users do that too. So all is good then?
--
David
4:30 p.m.
On Fri, 02 Aug 2013 16:08:26 -0400
David wrote:
You do know that you can change the system default?
Not very easily. Every time the package that owns the file
gets an update, the original is put back.
In fact, I have thwarted that on my system by running a
yum "hook" function that re-applies all my hacks every time
there is an update, but it is silly that I have to resort
to that.
4:23 p.m.
On Fri, 2 Aug 2013, Tom Horsley wrote:
On Fri, 02 Aug 2013 15:30:57 -0400
David wrote:
> Many others like them since you are the
> only user to complain.
No, he's not.
It is especially fun when your default terminal colors are
light foreground and dark background. Most ls output goes
almost invisible.
The colors I see are visisble on a dark background.
I do not care for them and they would be hard to see on a pale background.
--
Michael hennebry(a)web.cs.ndsu.NoDak.edu
"On Monday, I'm gonna have to tell my kindergarten class,
whom I teach not to run with scissors,
that my fiance ran me through with a broadsword." -- Lily
3:19 p.m.
On 08/02/2013 12:50 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:
On Fri, 02 Aug 2013 15:30:57 -0400
David wrote:
> Many others like them since you are the
> only user to complain.
No, he's not.
It is especially fun when your default terminal colors are
light foreground and dark background. Most ls output goes
almost invisible.
Or, if you're color blind. I once opened a bugzilla against yumex for
not honoring color changes because somebody on a forum was complaining
about it, but didn't have a bugzilla account. He wasn't color blind,
but as I was writing up the report, that possibility came to mind. I'm
pleased to say that this is one bug report that didn't go unfixed.
1:53 a.m.
Once upon a time, Joe Zeff <joe(a)zeff.us> said:
Which helps if and only if you have a list of them and take the time
to translate everything yourself. Putting in comments to make it
easy to understand would be nice, but at this time, I'll refer you
to what Rhett Butler said at the end of Gone With The Wind.
The colors in ls come from settings in /etc/DIR_COLORS, which has (and
has had for a long time) many comments describing the colors and which
are assigned to what.
If you don't like, don't want, etc. the colors, that's fine, but to say
they are not documented is wrong.
--
Chris Adams <linux(a)cmadams.net>
2:03 p.m.
On 8/2/2013 2:21 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 08/02/2013 05:27 AM, Darryl L. Pierce wrote:
> The colors are defined in /etc/profile.d/colorls.sh:
Reading that, the alias is set up, but there's no listing of which color
means what. And, if you do track that down, it's all in hex codes, so
that there's no easy way to find out what those codes mean. If you like
the color ls, use it. I don't, and I don't appreciate being told that
I'm going to have it whether I want it or not, so I've found the
simplest way to get rid of it permanently.
Unless something changed when I was not looking the codes you refer to
are ANSI color and ANSI control codes.
--
David
10:27 p.m.
On 08/02/2013 02:11 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
<>
Which helps if and only if you have a list of them and take the time
to
translate everything yourself. Putting in comments to make it easy to
understand would be nice, but at this time, I'll refer you to what Rhett
Butler said at the end of Gone With The Wind.
LMAO.
i thank you for that one Joe.
you brought a happy ending to an otherwise dismal day.
--
peace out.
in a world with out fences, who needs gates.
sl6.3 linux
tc.hago.
g
.
8:19 p.m.
On 8/2/2013 8:07 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 08/02/2013 05:00 PM, David wrote:
> Well good then. You changed your system from the distroution defaults to
> what you, personally, want. What works for you.
>
> Windows users do that. they set the default installed system to what
> they want. MacOS users do that too. So all is good then?
I'd probably prefer it if the various alias scripts were called from
~/.bashrc with comments so that they could be commented out, but I'm not
holding my breath. As it is, I'm content with what I have, and it's
easy to show others how to do it if they ask. I'm not sure why color is
the default, and I'd be astonished if anybody here knew, but I'm not
about to waste time arguing the question because it's not important.
I have had this for 'my' prompt(s) for so long, probably around Red Hat 6.0.
COLOR1="\[\033[1;37m\]"
[ "$PS1" = "\\s-\\v\\\$ " ] && PS1="$COLOR1[\u] \w
\\$ "
this makes my prompt show my name in bright white in [] as well as the
current directory
I use this one for 'root'
# Root prompt
COLOR1="\[\033[1;37m\]"
COLOR2="\[\033[1;31m\]"
PS1="$COLOR1[$COLOR2\u$COLOR1] \$PWD \\$ "
which shows 'root' in bright red but the rest in bright white.
These define the variables COLORx and use them in the prompt Something I
learned many, many years ago.
No magic involved. ANSI codes and defining Bash variables. Which is what
I assume they Fedora people, and others, do.
Have a good day.
--
David
1:21 p.m.
On 08/02/2013 05:27 AM, Darryl L. Pierce wrote:
The colors are defined in /etc/profile.d/colorls.sh:
Reading that, the alias is set up, but there's no listing of which color
means what. And, if you do track that down, it's all in hex codes, so
that there's no easy way to find out what those codes mean. If you like
the color ls, use it. I don't, and I don't appreciate being told that
I'm going to have it whether I want it or not, so I've found the
simplest way to get rid of it permanently.
7:07 p.m.
On 08/02/2013 05:00 PM, David wrote:
Well good then. You changed your system from the distroution defaults
to
what you, personally, want. What works for you.
Windows users do that. they set the default installed system to what
they want. MacOS users do that too. So all is good then?
I'd probably prefer it if the various alias scripts were called from
~/.bashrc with comments so that they could be commented out, but I'm not
holding my breath. As it is, I'm content with what I have, and it's
easy to show others how to do it if they ask. I'm not sure why color is
the default, and I'd be astonished if anybody here knew, but I'm not
about to waste time arguing the question because it's not important.
6:20 p.m.
On 8/2/2013 5:30 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:
On Fri, 02 Aug 2013 16:08:26 -0400
David wrote:
> You do know that you can change the system default?
Not very easily. Every time the package that owns the file
gets an update, the original is put back.
In fact, I have thwarted that on my system by running a
yum "hook" function that re-applies all my hacks every time
there is an update, but it is silly that I have to resort
to that.
Then change youe user's config. That is not touched by system changes
and will override the system configurations. You should, so I do not
repeat, read my comment to Joe Zeff about this in this thread.
--
David
6:18 p.m.
On 8/2/2013 4:22 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 08/02/2013 01:08 PM, David wrote:
> You do know that you can change the system default? As well as changing
> it in your users .bashrc file? The best of two worlds you and Joe get it
> your way and the rest of the Fedora world gets it their way.
Yes, and that's why instead of wasting time with a pointless bugzilla, I
found what I consider an elegant workaround, although I'll admit that I
like unalias better, now that it's been pointed out.
As I said .. It's all about choice and knowledge. This is about Fedora,
here, but as a point I have *not* tried all the so many Linux
distributions but of the many, many I have tried they *all* use some
form of colors. For a simple example? Press <ESC> while Plymouth is
running during boot. You will see colored test. It happens everywhere.
And, as I said, since you want to vary from the defualt - you will have
to do that.
--
David
5:03 p.m.
Am 02.08.2013 23:56, schrieb Joe Zeff:
On 08/02/2013 02:30 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:
> In fact, I have thwarted that on my system by running a
> yum "hook" function that re-applies all my hacks every time
> there is an update, but it is silly that I have to resort
> to that.
This is why I referred to my method as elegant: I don't need to know where the colors
are set up and I don't need
to worry about updates stepping on my changes. I've applied it to my own .bashrc and
root's. There are two friends
who have accounts for ssh reasons, and if they don't like color ls, they can either
change it, or ask me about it
because I'm not imposing my preferences on them
a more elegant method would be to "source" a central file
/root/.bashrc:
if [ -f /usr/local/etc/bash_profile ]; then
. /usr/local/etc/bash_profile
fi
/home/harry/.bashrc:
if [ -f /usr/local/etc/bash_profile ]; then
. /usr/local/etc/bash_profile
fi
_______________________________________
[root@srv-rhsoft:~]$ cat /usr/local/etc/bash_profile
alias dir='/usr/bin/ls -a -l -h --color=tty -X --group-directories-first
--time-style=long-iso'
alias rm='/usr/bin/rm -I --one-file-system'
alias cp='/usr/bin/cp -i'
alias mv='/usr/bin/mv -i'
alias ls='/usr/bin/ls -l -h --color=tty -X --group-directories-first
--time-style=long-iso'
alias df='/usr/bin/df -hT --exclude-type=tmpfs --exclude-type=devtmpfs'
alias ..='cd ..'
alias ...='cd ../..'
alias grep='/usr/bin/grep --color'
alias chown='/usr/bin/chown --preserve-root --changes --no-dereference'
alias chmod='/usr/bin/chmod --preserve-root --changes'
alias repair_mysql='/usr/bin/mysqlcheck -h localhost --check-upgrade --all-databases
--auto-repair --user=root -p'
alias free="/usr/bin/free -m"
alias rkhunter='/usr/bin/rkhunter --skip-keypress --report-warnings-only'
alias nmap_scan='/usr/bin/nmap -O -sV -T4 -d'
alias firewall_status='/usr/sbin/iptables --list --numeric --verbose | grep -v
LOG'
alias nat_status='/usr/sbin/iptables -t nat --list --numeric --verbose; echo
""; echo
"----------------------------------------------------"; /usr/bin/netstat-nat -x
| sort -n; echo ""; echo "Tracked
Connections:"; /usr/bin/netstat-nat -n | wc -l'
alias mysql='/usr/bin/mysql -u root -p'
alias mysql_upgrade='/usr/bin/mysql_upgrade -u root -p'
alias repair_mysql='/usr/bin/mysqlcheck -h localhost --check-upgrade --all-databases
--auto-repair --user=root -p'
alias analyze_mysql='/usr/bin/mysqlcheck -h localhost --analyze --all-databases
--user=root -p'
alias ntp_status='watch "/usr/sbin/ntpq -p"'
alias bond_status='cat /proc/net/bonding/bond0'
alias netstat='/usr/bin/netstat --numeric-hosts --numeric-ports --programs -u -t'
alias fsck.ext4='/usr/sbin/fsck.ext4 -C 0 -f'
alias systemctl='/usr/bin/systemctl --no-pager --full'
alias clamscan='/usr/bin/clamscan --log=/var/log/clamscan.log --infected
--recursive=yes --cross-fs=yes
--scan-pe=yes --scan-elf=yes --scan-ole2=yes --scan-pdf=yes --scan-html=yes
--scan-archive=yes'
alias uname='/usr/bin/uname -rv'
alias route='/usr/sbin/route -n'
alias bash_history='/usr/bin/cat ~/.bash_history'
alias rate_control='/usr/bin/watch "/usr/sbin/iptables --list --numeric --verbose
| grep -v LOG | grep hit_count;
/usr/sbin/iptables --list --numeric --verbose | grep -v LOG | grep conn; echo
\"\"; echo \"Tracked IPs\"; cat
/proc/net/xt_recent/DEFAULT | wc -l"'
alias kate='/usr/bin/kate --graphicssystem native'
alias ssl_bench='openssl speed -evp aes-256-cbc aes-128-cbc rc4 bf-cbc'
alias readahead_analyze='/usr/lib/systemd/systemd-readahead analyze'
alias bind_version='dig version.bind chaos txt'
export HISTCONTROL=erasedups:ignorespace
export HISTTIMEFORMAT='%F %T '
export GREP_COLOR="00;41"
if ([ "$TERM" != "screen" ] && [ "`pgrep screen`" !=
"" ] && [ "$SSH_TTY" != "" ]); then
screen -r 2> /dev/null
fi
4:56 p.m.
On 08/02/2013 02:30 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:
In fact, I have thwarted that on my system by running a
yum "hook" function that re-applies all my hacks every time
there is an update, but it is silly that I have to resort
to that.
This is why I referred to my method as elegant: I don't need to know
where the colors are set up and I don't need to worry about updates
stepping on my changes. I've applied it to my own .bashrc and root's.
There are two friends who have accounts for ssh reasons, and if they
don't like color ls, they can either change it, or ask me about it
because I'm not imposing my preferences on them.
3:22 p.m.
On 08/02/2013 01:08 PM, David wrote:
You do know that you can change the system default? As well as
changing
it in your users .bashrc file? The best of two worlds you and Joe get it
your way and the rest of the Fedora world gets it their way.
Yes, and that's why instead of wasting time with a pointless bugzilla, I
found what I consider an elegant workaround, although I'll admit that I
like unalias better, now that it's been pointed out.
3:17 p.m.
On 8/2/2013 1:08 PM, David wrote:
On 8/2/2013 3:50 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:
[...]
So there is *two* of you? :-)
Seriously I can see your problem here. I seriously doubt there are plans
to change this or make a GUI to change it. And I seriously doubt that
comments here will make any difference.
You do know that you can change the system default? As well as changing
it in your users .bashrc file? The best of two worlds you and Joe get it
your way and the rest of the Fedora world gets it their way.
I don't know whether this will help and/or is related, but I had a
problem awhile back with incorrect colors for various types of files and
got a fix (bug 817218). In that dialog, I expressed a desire to be able
to customize on top of the default DIR_COLORS (rather than an outright
replacement) That was done as 818069 (a thanks to the developers).
Unfortunately, I am still on F16 as I haven't had luck with F17 or F18
so I haven't fully tested (keyboard issues). Hopefully F19 will behave
on my machines.
Doubt if gui's will ever happen, but there is response to making it
easier for users to do their own thing
Paul
3:17 p.m.
Hi Joe,
On Fri, Aug 02, 2013 at 12:11:58PM -0700, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 08/02/2013 12:03 PM, David wrote:
>Unless something changed when I was not looking the codes you refer to
>are ANSI color and ANSI control codes.
Which helps if and only if you have a list of them and take the time to
translate everything yourself. Putting in comments to make it easy to
understand would be nice
dircolors -p
--
Suvayu
Open source is the future. It sets us free.
3:16 p.m.
On 08/02/2013 12:30 PM, David wrote:
As for the colors? Linux is about choice. You don't like them?
Remove
them and go on your merry way. Many others like them since you are the
only user to complain.
Or, and this is a distinct possibility, I'm the only one who doesn't
like them and is aware that ls doesn't have them by default. If all
you've ever had is color ls, you might not even know that you don't have
to have them. My objection is to making it so that everybody has it
simply because the person who set up the default .bashrc likes it. (I
remember, back in the '90s, when the default .Xresources [I think] had
some awful, drab color scheme along with the comment that this is what
whoever set it up liked, and if you didn't like it, tough.)
BTW. Those horrible colors have been there long enough that I
don't
recall just when they first started using them in Linux. I do remember
them from DOS 3.0.
Yeah; I remember those days, and CP/M, too. There's no good reason,
today, to use the codes directly. Have a shell file that assigns
human-readable names to all of them and call that from whatever scripts
use colors, so that users can tell what the colors are. With that, and
a printout of the script assigning colors to file types, color ls
becomes usable. Without it, it's gibberish to me, and probably a large
percentage of others.
3:08 p.m.
On 8/2/2013 3:50 PM, Tom Horsley wrote:
On Fri, 02 Aug 2013 15:30:57 -0400
David wrote:
> Many others like them since you are the
> only user to complain.
No, he's not.
It is especially fun when your default terminal colors are
light foreground and dark background. Most ls output goes
almost invisible.
So there is *two* of you? :-)
Seriously I can see your problem here. I seriously doubt there are plans
to change this or make a GUI to change it. And I seriously doubt that
comments here will make any difference.
You do know that you can change the system default? As well as changing
it in your users .bashrc file? The best of two worlds you and Joe get it
your way and the rest of the Fedora world gets it their way.
--
David
2:30 p.m.
On 8/2/2013 3:11 PM, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 08/02/2013 12:03 PM, David wrote:
> Unless something changed when I was not looking the codes you refer to
> are ANSI color and ANSI control codes.
Which helps if and only if you have a list of them and take the time to
translate everything yourself. Putting in comments to make it easy to
understand would be nice, but at this time, I'll refer you to what Rhett
Butler said at the end of Gone With The Wind.
Google is your friend. Just Google search the word ANSI.
As for the colors? Linux is about choice. You don't like them? Remove
them and go on your merry way. Many others like them since you are the
only user to complain.
BTW. Those horrible colors have been there long enough that I don't
recall just when they first started using them in Linux. I do remember
them from DOS 3.0.
--
David
2:11 p.m.
On 08/02/2013 12:03 PM, David wrote:
Unless something changed when I was not looking the codes you refer
to
are ANSI color and ANSI control codes.
Which helps if and only if you have a list of them and take the time to
translate everything yourself. Putting in comments to make it easy to
understand would be nice, but at this time, I'll refer you to what Rhett
Butler said at the end of Gone With The Wind.
11:33 a.m.
On 08/02/2013 05:27 AM, Darryl L. Pierce issued this missive:
On Thu, Aug 01, 2013 at 11:49:27AM -0700, Joe Zeff wrote:
> On 08/01/2013 06:20 AM, Tom Horsley wrote:
>> On Thu, 01 Aug 2013 09:07:07 -0400
>> Neal Becker wrote:
>>
>>> I suspect colored prompts are confusing emacs tramp. What's the easiest
way to
>>> turn it off for all users (especially root)?
>>
>> There is a whole slew of things in /etc/profile that turn on
>> annoying environment variables which enable things like that.
>> Grep for the one responsible, do an rpm -q -f /etc/profile/whatever
>> to see which package inflicted it on you, then yum -C erase
>> that package (of course, checking to see there aren't
>> other more critical things provided by the package :-).
>>
>
> Personally, I've never liked color ls, largely because it's almost
> impossible to find a chart that tells you what the colors mean. I
> used to track down where that was set and disable it, but that can
> get changed by an update. Now, I just put the following line near
> the bottom of ~/.bashrc:
>
> alias ls=ls
It's cleaner to "unalias ls" in your ~/.bashrc instead.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
- Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer, AllDigital ricks(a)alldigital.com -
- AIM/Skype: therps2 ICQ: 22643734 Yahoo: origrps2 -
- -
- Vegetarian: Old Indian word for "lousy hunter" -
----------------------------------------------------------------------
7:27 a.m.
On Thu, Aug 01, 2013 at 11:49:27AM -0700, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 08/01/2013 06:20 AM, Tom Horsley wrote:
>On Thu, 01 Aug 2013 09:07:07 -0400
>Neal Becker wrote:
>
>>I suspect colored prompts are confusing emacs tramp. What's the easiest way
to
>>turn it off for all users (especially root)?
>
>There is a whole slew of things in /etc/profile that turn on
>annoying environment variables which enable things like that.
>Grep for the one responsible, do an rpm -q -f /etc/profile/whatever
>to see which package inflicted it on you, then yum -C erase
>that package (of course, checking to see there aren't
>other more critical things provided by the package :-).
>
Personally, I've never liked color ls, largely because it's almost
impossible to find a chart that tells you what the colors mean. I
used to track down where that was set and disable it, but that can
get changed by an update. Now, I just put the following line near
the bottom of ~/.bashrc:
alias ls=ls
and that overrides anything done earlier. Maybe there's something
equivalent for this that will work for all users on prompts.
The colors are defined in /etc/profile.d/colorls.sh:
mcpierce@mcpierce-laptop:temp (master) $ rpm -qf /etc/profile.d/colorls.sh
coreutils-8.21-11.fc19.x86_64
--
Darryl L. Pierce <mcpierce(a)gmail.com>
http://mcpierce.fedorapeople.org/
"What do you care what people think, Mr. Feynman?"
2:29 p.m.
On 08/01/2013 12:18 PM, Suvayu Ali wrote:
The colours the OP is refering to is not the coloured output of ls.
That is controlled by the environment variable LS_COLORS. The OP has to
make sure his PS1 variable does not have any ANSI colour escapes. If
you are interested, take a look at my response earlier in the thread.
Yes. I know. I was using my way of removing color ls as an analogy:
put what you want at the bottom of ~/.bashrc and it will override the
defaults, just as it does with an alias you don't like.
2:18 p.m.
On Thu, Aug 01, 2013 at 11:49:27AM -0700, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 08/01/2013 06:20 AM, Tom Horsley wrote:
>On Thu, 01 Aug 2013 09:07:07 -0400
>Neal Becker wrote:
>
>>I suspect colored prompts are confusing emacs tramp. What's the easiest way
to
>>turn it off for all users (especially root)?
>
>There is a whole slew of things in /etc/profile that turn on
>annoying environment variables which enable things like that.
>Grep for the one responsible, do an rpm -q -f /etc/profile/whatever
>to see which package inflicted it on you, then yum -C erase
>that package (of course, checking to see there aren't
>other more critical things provided by the package :-).
>
Personally, I've never liked color ls, largely because it's almost
impossible to find a chart that tells you what the colors mean. I used to
track down where that was set and disable it, but that can get changed by an
update. Now, I just put the following line near the bottom of ~/.bashrc:
The colours the OP is refering to is not the coloured output of ls.
That is controlled by the environment variable LS_COLORS. The OP has to
make sure his PS1 variable does not have any ANSI colour escapes. If
you are interested, take a look at my response earlier in the thread.
--
Suvayu
Open source is the future. It sets us free.
1:49 p.m.
On 08/01/2013 06:20 AM, Tom Horsley wrote:
On Thu, 01 Aug 2013 09:07:07 -0400
Neal Becker wrote:
> I suspect colored prompts are confusing emacs tramp. What's the easiest way to
> turn it off for all users (especially root)?
There is a whole slew of things in /etc/profile that turn on
annoying environment variables which enable things like that.
Grep for the one responsible, do an rpm -q -f /etc/profile/whatever
to see which package inflicted it on you, then yum -C erase
that package (of course, checking to see there aren't
other more critical things provided by the package :-).
Personally, I've never liked color ls, largely because it's almost
impossible to find a chart that tells you what the colors mean. I used
to track down where that was set and disable it, but that can get
changed by an update. Now, I just put the following line near the
bottom of ~/.bashrc:
alias ls=ls
and that overrides anything done earlier. Maybe there's something
equivalent for this that will work for all users on prompts.
8:16 a.m.
On Thu, Aug 01, 2013 at 09:07:07AM -0400, Neal Becker wrote:
I suspect colored prompts are confusing emacs tramp. What's the
easiest way to
turn it off for all users (especially root)?
You have to set your PS1 in your ~/.bashrc such that there are no colour
escapes. This is what I do:
if [[ $TERM = dumb || $TERM = vt100 ]]; then
export PS1="${PROMPT}${JOBS} \W> "
else
export PS1="${PROMPT}${BOLD}${PINK}${JOBS}${YELLOW} \W> ${CLEAR}"
fi
where, the variables PROMPT, BOLD, PINK, etc are defined earlier. You
could also change the default PS1 by editing /etc/bashrc.
Hope this helps,
--
Suvayu
Open source is the future. It sets us free.
6:38 p.m.
On 08/02/2013 04:20 PM, David wrote:
Then change youe user's config. That is not touched by system
changes
and will override the system configurations. You should, so I do not
repeat, read my comment to Joe Zeff about this in this thread.
And that's why I ended up doing exactly that. It gets me what I want in
a way that system "updates" can't undo.
3940
days inactive
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days old
30 comments
12 participants
participants (12)
-
Chris Adams -
Darryl L. Pierce -
David -
g -
Joe Zeff -
Michael Hennebry -
Neal Becker -
Paul Allen Newell -
Reindl Harald -
Rick Stevens -
Suvayu Ali -
Tom Horsley