Hi folks! Today I woke up and found https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=2151495 , which diverted me down a bit of an "installer environment size" rabbit hole. As of today, with that new dep in webkitgtk, Rawhide's network install images are 703M in size. Here's a potted history of network install image sizes: Fedora Core 8: 103.2M (boot.iso 9.2M + stage2.img 94M) Fedora 13: 208M Fedora 17: 162M (last "old UI") Fedora 18: 294M (first "new UI") Fedora 23: 415M Fedora 28: 583M Fedora 33: 686M Fedora 37: 665M Fedora Rawhide: 703M The installer does not really do much more in Rawhide than it did in FC8. Even after the UI rewrite in F18, we were only at 294M. Now the image is well over 2x as big and does...basically the same. Why does this matter? Well, the images being large is moderately annoying in itself just in terms of transfer times and so on. But more importantly, AIUI at least, the entire installer environment is loaded into RAM at startup - it kinda has to be, we don't have anywhere else to put it. The bigger it is, the more RAM you need to install Fedora. The size of the installer environment (for which the size of the network install image is more or less a perfect proxy) is one of the two key factors in this, the other being how much RAM DNF uses during package install. So, I did a bit of poking about into *what* is taking up all that space. There's a variety of answers, but there's two major culprits: 1. firmware 2. yelp (which pulls in webkitgtk and its deps) I've been using du and baobab (the GNOME visual disk usage analyzer, which is great) to examine the filesystems, but I ran a couple of test builds to confirm these suspects, especially after the impact of compression (it's hard to check the *compressed* size of things in the installer environment directly). I did a scratch build of lorax which does not pull in firmware packages, and had openQA build a netinst using that lorax. It came out at 489M - 214M smaller than current netinsts, a size we last managed in Fedora 26. I did a scratch build of anaconda with its requirement of yelp dropped (which would break help pages), and built a netinst with that; it came out at 662M - 41M smaller than current images. I haven't run a combined test yet, but it ought to come out around 448M, around the size of Fedora 24. Even then we'd still be about 50% larger than the Fedora 18 image, for not really any added functionality. I've moaned about the sheer amount and size of firmware blobs in other forums before, but 214M compressed is *really* obnoxious. We must be able to do something to clean this up (further than it's already cleaned up - this is *after* we dropped low-hanging fruit like enterprise switch 'firmwares' and garbage like that; most of the remaining size seems to be huge amounts of probably-very-similar firmware files for AMD graphics adapters and Intel wireless adapters). I know some folks were trying to work on this (there was talk that we could drop quite a lot of files that would only be loaded by older kernels no longer in Fedora); any news on how far along that effort is? Other obvious things that take up a lot of space: 1. /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive , from glibc-all-langpacks - this is 224M uncompressed. A quick test just compressing the file with xz on my system shows it compresses to around 11M, though, so that's probably all it adds up to after compression (the image is an xz-compressed squashfs) 2. /usr/lib64/libLLVM-15.so, which is 114M on its own, compresses to 23M. We are, I think, basically stuck with this for mesa-dri-drivers , but does it have to be so *big*? 3. libicudata.so.71.1 - 30.4M, compresses to 7M. This is in the webkitgtk dep chain but seems to still be pulled in without it, not sure what else is requiring it. 4. /usr/share/locale - 112M in total (uncompressed, not sure how much compressed) of translated strings from a ton of packages. No idea how many of these are really *needed* in the installer environment. We can maybe come up with a way to have lorax strip some, if we can come up with a viable way to figure out which. Obviously-fairly-large ones are from gnupg2 and libgweather4. I do recall we have some logic somewhere to decide which languages have a certain level of translation in anaconda; perhaps we could only include the strings for these languages? -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA IRC: adamw | Twitter: adamw_ha https://www.happyassassin.net