Hi Ryan,
On Nov 6, 2014 4:35 PM, "Ryan Lerch" <rlerch(a)redhat.com> wrote:
On 11/06/2014 04:18 PM, Elad Alfassa wrote:
> On
Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 11:16 PM, Liam <liam.bulkley(a)gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>> On Nov 6, 2014 2:45 PM,
"Ryan Lerch" <rlerch(a)redhat.com> wrote:
>>
>> > On 11/06/2014 02:36
PM, Anibal Gomez wrote:
>> >
>> >> Yumex is great
package manager
>> >
>> >> What do you
think?
>> >
>> >> $ sudo yum install
yumex
>> >
>> >> Regards!
>> >
>> >>
balerocms.com
>>
>> > Hi Anibal!
>>
>> > Thanks for the
suggestion!
>>
>> > However, The currently
of the Workstation is focusing more on the
Software application for installing new
software. While it is not a
graphical package manager (it only searches and installs applications that
have .desktop files) the concept is that the average user of Fedora should
be able to find and install all the applications they require for the
workstation it, and if they require lower level packages and services,
using yum (and soon the yum replacement, DNF), via the command line is IMO
the recommended default way.
>>
>> Given our target audience,
why not just present everything in Software?
Is there some user testing data of our
audience that has shown an alarming
amount of confusion regarding GUI driven installation of, for instance,
libraries?
>> Imho, as long as it's clear what is a GUI program and
what isn't, I
think it far better to have one officially supported way of
installing
software than the frustration of searching for some utility in Software and
not finding it.
>> Personally, I just never touch Software. Not b/c I have
anything
against GUI software management but b/c I
>> don't want to be forced to wonder "is this $package
going to show up in
Software?"
>
>> Best/Liam
>
>
>> --
>> desktop mailing list
>> desktop(a)lists.fedoraproject.org
>>
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
> Software is not about
"packages". it's about applications.
Liam, I understand your frustration in searching for things in software
and not
being able to find them. Just out of interest, what kinds of
packages were you searching for? Command line applications like mutt or
vim? Or command line tools like git, etc? Or low level packages like kernel
and other libraries?
I don't use mutt or vim, but, otherwise, yeah, any of those.
There's also inbetweener items like gedit-plugin*, or gstreamer-plugins.
In the final evaluation, however, i'm not sure it really matters what it is
I'm trying to install. It simply is... odd... to have to make a "guess" as
to whether Software can install what I need. I say guess b/c I know that
the application needs a desktop file but I don't want to have to think
about that kind of thing. I don't want to be forced to make the decision
which tool to use in order to get the job done.
That simply seems like an unnecessary cognitive burden.
The line was drawn in Software to define an "Application"
as something
that has a desktop file -- aka a GUI application. Although you could
argue
that mutt, vim, git etc are applications also but users are going to use
them on a command line, so i think the assumption that was made was that
those users would be comfortable using the command line to install them.
I understand that, and I'm perfectly fine using the CLI, but since a big
push was made with f.n to make Fedora a place for developers I thought I'd
kick the tires on the rest of the default apps.
I've been on f21 for awhile now and I can say that because of the
split-installation method, I just no longer even bother with Software.
Again, keep in mind, I've no issue with it because it's a GUI. A GUI
software manager can be a great experience as it is both more discoverable
than a CLI (even one as fine as yum), and allows for a richer experience
such as screenshots, ratings (which, iirc, don't mean anything now, but
will, presumably, become actual indications of user satisfaction, as much
as such a system allows), browsing-based discovery, and the like.
One thing that Software does add to the experience for GUI
applications
is the ability to browse and search all the different kinds of
applications, see screenshots and more detailed descriptions. In my
software installation workflow, if i am looking for a graphical application
to solve my problem, i search Software (now too with the search provider,
it appears in the Overview when searching there), and if i need a command
line anything -- i go to the commandline and search the repos using DNF.
I understand all of that, but I also don't like the fact that Software is
giving me an abridged view of the repos.
If I'm genuinely searching for a tool, I won't know ahead of time whether
it only provides a CLI, or a GUI. Given that I just want the best tool I
want to know what tools are available and Software simply doesn't work in
that case. What's more, the original assumption given for the split seems
odd given the genuine issues that Software is causing. I'm simply unsure
why it is so important that the assumption must hold. As a result of that
assumption the facts on the ground are that users have to go through mental
gymnastics if they both want to install something and continue to use
Software rather than just always use the CLI. Given such a situation it
appears that users would gradually just stop using Software. Especially our
target group who aren't afraid of the terminal.
I'm not trying to be difficult with this as I want Fedora to succeed, I'm
just not seeing the benefits of the assumption, especially (once again!),
given our target user base.
Best/Liam